Stoner calls out Rossi?

[salsashark]

HELL YEAH HE DOES! I just want him to blow his cheeks out just once

I'll never be able to watch an interview with him without thinking this now...

[Pharmgirl]

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Write it down, Frank giving props to a Kawi! Atta' boy Frank!

Hey, gotta give credit where it's due. Bridgestone, 'Zuki, and Kawi have all stepped up their game this year. Ducati has REALLY stepped it up, and so has Stoner. He seems to have lost his appetite for tasting ass-fault.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Here's one area that's interesting. I believe the Honda has obviously been tailored to Pedrosa, and the Ducati to Stoner. Both are the new blood, in their eyes, and are the future. In car racing, say F1, the chassis is the same for both drivers, with perhaps only a little bias towards one style (say, Shuey's vs Massa's) or the other. The chassis is simply made extremely stiff with the same basic aerodynamics for both. The suspension, wing angle (downforce/balance) and tires are changed to suit the driver. For MotoGP, at lean, the chassis is actually designed to flex in a somewhat predictable manner, providing some "suspension" action at lean. This is to counter the hop/chatter/skating problem Wayne Rainey ran into when they made the Yamaha frame TOO stiff in the early '90's. This means that there is a much greater chance that one bike is suited to one rider or another. Then you must add to that effect of the rider-tailored weight distribution because the rider is a much greater percentage of combined weight than in F1, so the CG and roll center are more drastically affected when the rider or engine is placed a certain way on the bike. In F1, the chassis can be considered ultimately stiff, with the ONLY suspension action completely adjustable for each driver, and the CG and (minimal) roll center doesn't change due to driver weight. So you have removed those variables. In MotoGP, you CANNOT compensate for the chassis-flex "suspension" with stiffer suspension (just makes the frame flex more), and are stuck with more compromises for the other non-preferred rider. And we won't even talk about one-off parts for the preferred rider adding to that......

[green_zx7r]

Bingo. Winning a championship is a hell of a lot more than just the rider or the bike or the tires or whatever. It's the rider and the bike and the tires and whatever. It's clear the Duc has a power advantage over the other bikes but I don't see how one can say that Stoner isn't a great rider. Yeah, on identical bikes/tires/etc head-to-head I'd put my money on Rossi. He's clearly one of the greatest riders ever, but Stoner has done some damned good riding this year and it's unfair to say that it's all due to the bike.

Dirk

Agree with Dirk and Rybo. If it's the bike, I would expect Loris to be beating Vale constantly as well. Stoner is a damn good rider, and I honestly hope he wins it this year. In my humble opinion, it's AWESOME to see such a tiny company succeed in MotoGP in such a short period of time. Hats off to EVERYONE involved in the Ducati MotoGP team.

Yusuke

[The Black Knight]

Here's one area that's interesting. I believe the Honda has obviously been tailored to Pedrosa, and the Ducati to Stoner. Both are the new blood, in their eyes, and are the future. In car racing, say F1, the chassis is the same for both drivers, with perhaps only a little bias towards one style (say, Shuey's vs Massa's) or the other. The chassis is simply made extremely stiff with the same basic aerodynamics for both. The suspension, wing angle (downforce/balance) and tires are changed to suit the driver. For MotoGP, at lean, the chassis is actually designed to flex in a somewhat predictable manner, providing some "suspension" action at lean. This is to counter the hop/chatter/skating problem Wayne Rainey ran into when they made the Yamaha frame TOO stiff in the early '90's. This means that there is a much greater chance that one bike is suited to one rider or another. Then you must add to that effect of the rider-tailored weight distribution because the rider is a much greater percentage of combined weight than in F1, so the CG and roll center are more drastically affected when the rider or engine is placed a certain way on the bike. In F1, the chassis can be considered ultimately stiff, with the ONLY suspension action completely adjustable for each driver, and the CG and (minimal) roll center doesn't change due to driver weight. So you have removed those variables. In MotoGP, you CANNOT compensate for the chassis-flex "suspension" with stiffer suspension (just makes the frame flex more), and are stuck with more compromises for the other non-preferred rider. And we won't even talk about one-off parts for the preferred rider adding to that......

Thank you!! My point exactly. I'm glad someone finally saw it. Take for instance the 2004 and 2005 seasons of Honda Telefonica. Both had Melandri and Gibernau. And both of them were clearly faster then Hayden and Barros/Biaggi. The latter being on the official Honda bike and the other Telefonica's being the bikes that got parts after the fact. In this case it was obviously clear that Hayden was getting parts for his Repsol before his own teammate and way before the other Honda guys. Hayden was still getting his feet wet and that limited him to being able to utilize the bikes potential.

When you've got two riders for a team there will always be a dominant rider. Hence why the said dominant rider will always get the best parts first and have the best bike. In all honesty that's how it should be. Why waste a bike,time and parts on the slower and clearly subordinate rider? The manufactures are in this to win not lose so of course they will direct the best stuff to the best rider on the team.

I think it's a big slap in Nicky's face to have his own gig being handed over to Pedrosa and in fact him being the second rate rider of the team. When you can clearly see that the new 800cc was designed around Pedrosa.

RYBO:
you clearly didn't catch the point of the analogy did you? I don't get how you couldn't. Well actually I can but I would have expected more. It is a legit comparison because as I mentioned they were all F-22 Raptor pilots and only One was in a single F-22 and managed to take out the pack of skilled F-22 pilots in F15's. They knew how the F22 would react and what kind of strategies he could/would use. Yet obviously with a completely superior plane he shot them all down in the simulation.

Your whole Freddy Spencer comparison is wrong. Because I didn't say a MotoGP pro vs a club racer. Or I should say I didn't say a elite class F-22 Raptor pilot vs a Cessna pilot and both of them in their respective equipment that they fly. That's just jacked up and comparing apples to oranges. I don't even know why you would come up with that comparison of you vs Spencer. We're talking world class caliber former MotoGP Champion vs. a local club racer. That's not fair and not even in the same ballpark. I would also bet though that you would fair a bit better then you think on a current MotoGP bike vs. his old busted 84 GP bike. Obviously he's going to walk you if we are talking a track like Mugello. But I bet you'd have a good shot if we are talking PMI. It's all relative knowledge of each track. Now I don't know how good you are and I don't know if Freddy has visted PMI. So that's a conversation in variables we can throw out all day.

Also I never said Rossi won his first year. You are correct Stoner was on a satellite team and royally sucked. No one I don't care who you are, not even Rossi can woodshed that much in the off season then come back and run everyone like Stoner has. There is obviously something more. Do I think he was in the woodshed all winter? Of course. Fact of the matter is, it's the bike as well. If you would have read my previous post you'll have seen that I gave Ducati their props. The built an amazing bike. No doubt about it. Fact is Stoner isn't that good in my opinion and yes I still stick to my guns and say that he's getting major help from the Ducati. He's got the best bike, the best tire at the moment. Factor in everyone eles's crappy bikes and michelin's even more crappy tires and of course he starts to look great. Did I say it's all bike? No in motogp it's 80% to 20%. 80% rider and 20% bike, but in Stoner's case I did say it is reversed. For Stoner it's 80% bike and 20% Stoner.

green_zx7r:
You're right if it is all the bike then Capirossi would be actually a contender. You're right it's not all bike, but it is all Stoner's bike. Capirossi is riding a pile of garbage while Stoner is on the flagship. It's as plain as day. I agree with you as well on the championship. I love Rossi he's my favorite rider. No matter what. But it does get tired watching someone cash out on championship after championship. Competition is great. Which is why AMA sucks. It's the Mladin errrrrr Spies errrrrr Suzuki show and you know one of the two will always win it. It's tired, it's played out and no one cares. I only tune into the AMA races to watch other riders and enjoy the American racing. Other then that the competition is whack and bland. The AMA is not churning out riders like the rest of the world is and it shows. But I won't get too into that.

Lastly, my take on Stoner is that he is a good rider. Better rider then I'll ever be. My main beef was just because you've racked up a few W's doesn't mean you're an authority on everything and doesn't mean you can start jamming the veterans with the kind of smack coming from his mouth. Stoner can race for sure, but he's not amazing. He's a boring rider to watch. My point was, keep earning the wins, but do it in a humble way. Don't smack off on Rossi and don't get a big head and think you're the next big thing. Like I said Casey has manged 6 whole wins in his career and Valentino 7 Championships. That my friends is scoreboard......

[konichd]

Hell ya Black! Now to add insult to injury

[green_zx7r]

I don't know why people are making a big deal out of Stoner voicing his opinion. He's a competitor. They all talk smack to a certain degree. I don't think there's a "you must win a certain # of races/championships before you can talk smack" rule is there?

I'm just happy to see these young guns like Pedrosa and Stoner kicking butt and taking names. I'm tired of seeing Barros/Checa/Kenny G/Capirossi on the grid. Give those seats to young guns from the 250 class.

Also, some one mentioned that the Desmosedici 800 is made for Stoner and not for Capirex. Is that a fact or an assumption? I would think Ducati would want an Italian to win on the Italian bike, so giving the 'better' bike to Stoner from the get go sounds kinda iffy to me.
I do know that Capirex is struggling with the new 800, and the team is trying to tailor his machine to his style. I would imagine that a small guy like Capirex (who also did well in the 250s) would fly on a 800, so it was surprising to see him struggle.

Yusuke

[The Black Knight]

I don't know why people are making a big deal out of Stoner voicing his opinion. He's a competitor. They all talk smack to a certain degree. I don't think there's a "you must win a certain # of races/championships before you can talk smack" rule is there?

I'm just happy to see these young guns like Pedrosa and Stoner kicking butt and taking names. I'm tired of seeing Barros/Checa/Kenny G/Capirossi on the grid. Give those seats to young guns from the 250 class.

Also, some one mentioned that the Desmosedici 800 is made for Stoner and not for Capirex. Is that a fact or an assumption? I would think Ducati would want an Italian to win on the Italian bike, so giving the 'better' bike to Stoner from the get go sounds kinda iffy to me.
I do know that Capirex is struggling with the new 800, and the team is trying to tailor his machine to his style. I would imagine that a small guy like Capirex (who also did well in the 250s) would fly on a 800, so it was surprising to see him struggle.

Yusuke

NO there is no written rule about smack or talking smack. My only point is if you're going to talk smack and come strong at someone then bring it. Have something to back it up. And having 6 whole races on your resume doesn't exactly mean you've established some cred. Basically you've got to earn it. Guys like Spencer and Schwantz have earned it and anyone else who's managed to secure a championship. Those guys have entered the realm of being able to talk smack because they've walked the walk. You know that if some of these guys run some smack on someone you know they can back what they are saying. 6 Races entitle you to pretty much that, 6 races. It's best to keep your mouth shut and continue to either win more races or snag a championship. Until then don't cause strife and don't call out guys who've been doing this since you were in junior high. It gets you nowhere and earns you zero respect. All it earns you is the title of "this year's punk" and that's about it.

As far as the 800cc Desmo being made for Stoner and not Capirossi being either fact or assumption. I'd say it's both. Because if it's not then why isn't Capirossi racking up the W's and dominating?? Why isn't he snagging poles and setting fastest laps? I mean if he's got the same bike that is "alledgely" made for him since he's an italian, then shouldn't he be the one on top? Or is he just having a crappy year and Stoner is that good and is doing it with Bike No.2???

Also why would the team being trying to tailor the bike to his style and needs to get him to produce results, when he's reportedly on his way out? Check that!! he is on his way out and Marco Melandri is replacing him. Yeah you're right I'd spend time and money on a guy you're getting rid of at the end of the season, because you never know he just might pull it off. You never know he might actually podium.

You say you're surprised to see him struggle. Honestly I'm not. Not after the first couple of races where Stoner clearly had the advantage and comlpetely better bike. When Stoner is riding a rocket launcher and Capirossi's bike looks like it's plugs our fouled. Yeah you're right they obviously made Capirossi's bike the #1 bike and Stoner got the leftovers.

[green_zx7r]

LOL!!! You sure talk a lot of smack like you know all about MotoGP, kinda like Stoner! Just kidding man.

I still don't get your argument about why Stoner can't say what he feels, but to each their own thoughts eh? I'm not their racing amongst the best and am just an observer. They can say whatever they want to each other to fuel the fire. More fun for us to watch.

Regarding Capirex. I highly doubt they were planning on having him leave the team from the beginning of the season. You're also misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am not saying that they would give Capirossi the better bike. I'm simply not believing that they would have concentrated on Stoner and left Capirossi in the dust from the get go. For whatever reason, Capirossi just isn't getting used to the bike, and it happens to suit Stoner better. At this stage with Capirossi fishing for opportunities, I'm sure Ducati may not do any more favors for him, but I read from one of their engine designer's interview that they were trying to customize the engine characteristics of his bike to suit his style.

Anyways, I'm sure there is no end to this discussion, so I'll just say, GO STONER!!!

[The Black Knight]

LOL!!! You sure talk a lot of smack like you know all about MotoGP, kinda like Stoner! Just kidding man.

I still don't get your argument about why Stoner can't say what he feels, but to each their own thoughts eh? I'm not their racing amongst the best and am just an observer. They can say whatever they want to each other to fuel the fire. More fun for us to watch.

Regarding Capirex. I highly doubt they were planning on having him leave the team from the beginning of the season. You're also misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am not saying that they would give Capirossi the better bike. I'm simply not believing that they would have concentrated on Stoner and left Capirossi in the dust from the get go. For whatever reason, Capirossi just isn't getting used to the bike, and it happens to suit Stoner better. At this stage with Capirossi fishing for opportunities, I'm sure Ducati may not do any more favors for him, but I read from one of their engine designer's interview that they were trying to customize the engine characteristics of his bike to suit his style.

Anyways, I'm sure there is no end to this discussion, so I'll just say, GO STONER!!!

Me? talk smack? never.. HAHA

It's really not my argument about what Stoner can and can't say. I think it more has to do with the way he says it. I've always had a ton of respect for athletes when they can remain humble and not take the low road and start with the insults and low blows. I love it when they talk smack to each other. You're right all sports thrive on some sort of smack. But I think it's how it's delievered and from who. Like I say if Stoner wraps up this years championship then he's more then welcome to talk smack. He's still got a bit to go to get to Rossi's level, but at least he's paid his dues. I don't think winning 6 races is paying your dues. It's a start for sure and a huge step in the right direction. But when he earns that #1 plate or runs whatever number he wants then he's earned it. Again thought I think if you're going to talk smack be mindful of it so as that you don't come off as being a champion that's a know it all. There is a fine line of smack you can cross and the best know how to stay on the right side of it.

As far as Capirossi, yeah I think in the beginning of the year they may have started them both out the same to see how they would fair on the 800cc machines. But clearly with Stoner's bike being the dominant one and him taking off with it, you know for sure Ducati has directed all their efforts towards him. And at this point yes Capirossi is left in the dust because he's already out and replaced.

Again I agre it's probably a never ending discussion but it's fun and we get to run some smack on each other and the racers. All I can say is.... Stoner needs to earn it the right way and he'll have way more respect then the way he's going about it now.

[mra828]

Also, some one mentioned that the Desmosedici 800 is made for Stoner and not for Capirex. Is that a fact or an assumption?

It's neither fact nor assumption - it's pure rubbish.

The 800 was designed, built and being ridden by spring of 2006. They were testing all last year with various riders. Stoner didn't drop Honda and make the leap until mid-October of 2006 - and he was fast on his first test on the bike, not long after signing on.

Stoner's really good - I can't remember if it was Doohan or Burgess, but one of them claimed he was future of MotoGP before he threw a leg over a big bike. He nabbed pole @ his 2nd event in MotoGP. He's always been known as a win or bin kind of racer and he seems to have solved the bin part of the equation...

The 800 was clearly the fastest bike in a straight line early season but it was clearly inferior in the turns. I think both those gaps have closed and I don't see a clear best bike out there. I do see a best overall package... and they're leading the championship by winning races. How good Stoner is long term is TBD... but it will be funny if the "GOAT" (or monkey as the case may be) never wins another championship.

[The Black Knight]

It's neither fact nor assumption - it's pure rubbish.

The 800 was designed, built and being ridden by spring of 2006. They were testing all last year with various riders. Stoner didn't drop Honda and make the leap until mid-October of 2006 - and he was fast on his first test on the bike, not long after signing on.

Stoner's really good - I can't remember if it was Doohan or Burgess, but one of them claimed he was future of MotoGP before he threw a leg over a big bike. He nabbed pole @ his 2nd event in MotoGP. He's always been known as a win or bin kind of racer and he seems to have solved the bin part of the equation...

The 800 was clearly the fastest bike in a straight line early season but it was clearly inferior in the turns. I think both those gaps have closed and I don't see a clear best bike out there. I do see a best overall package... and they're leading the championship by winning races. How good Stoner is long term is TBD... but it will be funny if the "GOAT" (or monkey as the case may be) never wins another championship.

And see I would beg to differ. Because while a company may have produced their prototype 800cc last season and began testing before Stoner's arrival. It still doesn't mean they didn't spend the winter designing the new bike for him.

What we get from the reports of Stoner are usually way behind as far as inside the business goes. Sure Stoner signed on mid-October 2006 but I'm sure they had it in their minds and probably had talks with him way before and I would bet they knew he was coming their way. Multi-million dollar making companies don't make decisions on the whim and most of the time their decisions are months in the making. It would only benefit a huge company to not air their business so everyone can hear it.

Yeah now at this part of the season the bikes are starting to equalize. But the Ducati is clearly the horsepower king. The M1 has always been known for it's agility, but this year it really lacks straight line. I was honestly shocked that Rossi was able to do as well as he did a Mugello a known hp track.

As for Rossi getting another championship. He'll do it, hopefully this year because I'd like to see him snag a 800cc title. So then he'll have them all. If not this year, I would be willing to bet next year for sure. He wants the 800cc bad enough and if Yamaha can give him a bike that delievers like it did in 2004 and 2005, he'll for sure have it. After he gets a 800cc title he'll be out to Formula 1 or WRC racing.

[mra828]

And see I would beg to differ. Because while a company may have produced their prototype 800cc last season and began testing before Stoner's arrival. It still doesn't mean they didn't spend the winter designing the new bike for him.

They may have tailored it to him - every team does that, but they didn't design if for him. Remember, he was fast his first time on the bike and companies don't design/build bikes in a month or two.

What we get from the reports of Stoner are usually way behind as far as inside the business goes. Sure Stoner signed on mid-October 2006 but I'm sure they had it in their minds and probably had talks with him way before and I would bet they knew he was coming their way. Multi-million dollar making companies don't make decisions on the whim and most of the time their decisions are months in the making. It would only benefit a huge company to not air their business so everyone can hear it.

You are correct they don't make a decision on a whim... which is precisely why they *didn't* design the bike for Stoner. The bike was designed at least 6 months before Stoner signed on. There were other riders in line before Stoner and only after they re-upped their contracts did Stoner (4th in line @ Honda at the time) sign on. Silly Season gets its name for a reason, and that's not b/c it's predicatble.

A quick look at how long it took honda to come out with a *modified* (not new) motor this season shows the folly in believing Ducati white papered a bike for Stoner between November and January.

The argument that Honda designed the bike for Pedrosa holds water. Honda's got Pedro locked and they have for a long time. He was brought on as their A rider (sorry Nicky) and they there's no reason for him to leave - so they build the bike for him - and that design was in the works long before Nicky was ever leading a championship.

Honda design a bike around their contracted A rider? Yeah, but Ducati to invest many millions to design and build a bike around a rider that hasn't signed? No way - like I said, that's pure rubbish.

[Dysco]

>Cough<

Ahem...

[jimwallace]

i have to say that i agree with stoner. it doesnt sound like arrogance to me it just sounds like hes saying that rossi is whining which to me sounds like the case.... now i am not saying rossi has no reason to whine but i can say he has no reason to whine about the rule, maybe he should turn around and whine at michelin for not keeping up, why does he need any more tires than the other riders? maybe he just needs better ones.

[Theory123]

Rossi Rules. Ducati has a good bike and rider. Bridgestone has a good tire. Rossi still rules. There have been some good battles early on in the season between the two of them. Exciting season in motogp except Hayden has been jacked!