Greeley Yamaha

[1000RR]

In this case, I am not trying to defend or attack sales tactics in general. I am simply responding to a single and particular instance of really bad customer service.

Sorry, the salesmans job is to look out for the customer while moving him into something that is profitable.

No apology necessary! Again, in this case no questions were asked and the business generated no profit simply because there was no sale. The customer in question is now sitting on a new R6, so I would say he was certainly a motivated buyer.

in every sales job I have had, you listen to the customers wants, needs, desires by asking QUESTIONS, this is how you drive the customer and no allow him to take control of the sale. You then reiterate what you have heard and show him what meets his needs.

I must be a bad customer, I always try to take control of the sale. Must have been a lesson from my father, who was a 30 year car sales veteran. I will conceed that the above can be true for an uneducated buyer, but when I walk into a bike shop the conversation between me and sales is simply "I want THIS. Now, what are you going to do for me in order to make this sale?" The best judge of my needs is me!

even Yamaha is concerned about the lawyers sueing bike manufactures for selling over powered motorcycles to young inexperienced riders....The moral end is if you sell some unexperinced young kid with lots of money an R1 and he kills himself on it, you are partly to blame, if you can live with that, fine.

Yamaha is in no way liable for usage of their products, any more so than Mr. Glock, Mr. Ford or Mr. Popeil. The distributor is not liable either. I believe it is OUR responsibility to shield ourselves from our own stupidity, not a company's, a business's or a government's. Do you disagree?

If the customer was treated rudely I would agree with you

I believe "I WOULDNT EVEN SELL YOU THIS BIKE BUD" qualifies. Again, I am only concerning my part in this conversation with this one instance. I'm not attempting to discuss retail theory here.

Even Judge Judy awarded damages...

Judge Judy is hardly represents the law of the land. Just like good ol' Judge Wapner of my day, I am sure her judgements are actually paid from the show and as such they often make "exciting" and "controversial" rulings in order to provide entertainment.

I think you have to show a drives license and proof of insurance before you can drive that new car away. If you had cash, not sure about that one.

If you finance a car, yes you need insurance and thus a license in order to satify the lein holder. If you buy it outright, you only need a pen to sign the registration. Now driving it home is another story that the dealer doesn't concern themselves with. This is as it should be.

driving is not a right but a privilage

No argument here. I'm only discussing the right to buy whatever-the-heck-I-want, and it appears we agree.

Which is why sales people help "steer" people into choices and it behoves Yamaha and the local dealership to steer inexperienced riders...

Absolutely. Steer away but when the customer disagrees with the direction you are leading them, what legal or moral obligation does a salesperson have that gives them the right to simply deny someone the opportunity to purchase goods available for "everyone"? When did the customer cease to be always right? (/ducks)

Anyhoo, I think we agree on most (or all) points, its just I am discussing a more narrow scope than you may be.

[R1ch]

In this case, I am not trying to defend or attack sales tactics in general. I am simply responding to a single and particular instance of really bad customer service.

I did not see it that way You were making a generalized statement. You said "The salesperson is not doing his job by looking out for the customer. His only job is to sell motorcycles to interested parties." This appeared to be a generalized statement which is backed up by your second statement.

I must be a bad customer, I always try to take control of the sale

No just typicle and you should try to control the sale, that is why it is a battle, that is why people hate buying cars. That Granted there are differences between buying a car stereo or the car itself. But for the most part, they want to make as much money as they can and you want to get if for as cheap as you can.

Yamaha is in no way liable for usage of their products, any more so than Mr. Glock, Mr. Ford or Mr. Popeil. The distributor is not liable either. I believe it is OUR responsibility to shield ourselves from our own stupidity, not a company's, a business's or a government's. Do you disagree?

I would disagree. Many lawsuits have been won because short sighted companies believed this. They now try to cover themselves by placing stickers such as, this product is dangourous and if used incorrectly could cause loss of limb or death. I too believe it is OUR responsibility ABSOLUTELY. But unfortunatly it is not reality and because of the present laws. It is getting better. Colorado has put into place laws that protect ski resorts from law suits. If you don't want to die skiing, don't ski but if you do, you cans sue. I am all for this. I agree with you as well the motorcycle manufactures should not be responsible. But the other side can make an argument that if you make a motorcycle that produces too much hp and is not stable and people are dying due to the fact, this is negligence. I know people that WON law suits against Yamaha on it's VMAX for being over powered, over weight for the braking systems. The HP went down, the forks got bigger, the brakes became dual caliper, the head shake was minimized and the lawsuits went away.

If the customer was treated rudely I would agree with you

I believe "I WOULDNT EVEN SELL YOU THIS BIKE BUD" qualifies. Again, I am only concerning my part in this conversation with this one instance. I'm not attempting to discuss retail theory here.

My understanding was we did not have the whole story..

Even Judge Judy awarded damages...

Judge Judy is hardly represents the law of the land. Just like good ol' Judge Wapner of my day, I am sure her judgements are actually paid from the show and as such they often make "exciting" and "controversial" rulings in order to provide entertainment.

I disagree here, she uses small claims court law for her area. I do think that judgements are at here discression

driving is not a right but a privilage

No argument here. I'm only discussing the right to buy whatever-the-heck-I-want, and it appears we agree.

Yep

Which is why sales people help "steer" people into choices and it behoves Yamaha and the local dealership to steer inexperienced riders...

Absolutely. Steer away but when the customer disagrees with the direction you are leading them, what legal or moral obligation does a salesperson have that gives them the right to simply deny someone the opportunity to purchase goods available for "everyone"? When did the customer cease to be always right? (/ducks)

I agree with you in theory, but in practice, the dealership just like Dennys can refuse sales and service to anyone. They do invite a lawsuit if you could prove prejudice they may have to pay but if the R6 guy took them to court and he was married, white, hetrosexual he would have little grounds for a suit.


Anyhoo, I think we agree on most (or all) points, its just I am discussing a more narrow scope than you may be.

And maybe I took your first statement wrong. So for the most part we agree. Unfortunatly the Fed gov and liberals always seem to want to take away our freedoms.

[NZ Darren]

Hey R1ch, are you responding to your own quotes?

Even disagreeing with yourself?

Or is this a new personality you have?

[919pride]

this is out of control......enough already

[mikesf4i]

My wifes cousin was on Judge Judy . He was told what to say and no it didnt match what really happened. Also the tv show paid for what the judgement amount was. So yes its just a tv show. Oh yea he'll be on "Texas justice " soon also.

[JohnS]

Wow good discussion with noone getting pissed. I like this!

I was never discussing anything legal here. I'll admit I've probably sold overpowered bikes to under experienced riders but I always tried to lead them to something else. I damn sure made them buy a helmet to go with it. Anyways I think after selling bikes a while it became more of a moral issue with me. I had bosses try to tell me to get them on the R1 but I refused. I sold Jessica (r.i.p.) her SV650. It's not an over powered bike and she had experience starting with a 500 but very bad things still happened which probably could have happened on a 250. For me anyways it became more personal selling bikes. It's a bigger responsibility than most people think. Maybe thats why after 2 years in the business my sales fell flat.

Why do you think laws are soo strict on ATV sales with anyone under the age of 16? Too many kids died. Example.. if your 15 yrs old and your as big as most full grown adults you still can't ride a big atv. If a parent comes into the dealership and asks for a good ATV for the 15 yr old son from that point on you are not legally allowed to sell them a large machine (anything over 80cc) Funny thing is you can get whatever MX bike you like. 450f no problem.

I think i went off topic :P

oh yeah and if the guy was being an ass thats when you just go over his head.

and Congrats on the new bike!!!


A point to my post? I don't have one!

[R1ch]

Hey R1ch, are you responding to your own quotes?

Even disagreeing with yourself?

Or is this a new personality you have? ;

We don't talk to ourselves do we?

No UR1 makes us talk to ourselves.

I don't talks to myselfs

Yes you do. No I don't

[R1ch]

Example.. if your 15 yrs old and your as big as most full grown adults you still can't ride a big atv. If a parent comes into the dealership and asks for a good ATV for the 15 yr old son from that point on you are not legally allowed to sell them a large machine (anything over 80cc) Funny thing is you can get whatever MX bike you like. 450f no problem.

Isn't that a riot. Hey little Johnny boy, you can't ride an atv so. Hmm. Lets get you a Kawasaki KX500 dirt bike, thats legal. You should be riding that baby in no time...

[R1ch]

My wifes cousin was on Judge Judy . He was told what to say and no it didnt match what really happened. Also the tv show paid for what the judgement amount was. So yes its just a tv show. Oh yea he'll be on "Texas justice " soon also.

Well that wasn't what I was told but I will believe your reference. It seems logical that it is a tv show. But those people do a pretty good job of acting stupid and remembering the script. Some of that stuff is so bizzare and stupid I find it difficult to believe some producer made it up. But stranger things have happened.

[919pride]

Example.. if your 15 yrs old and your as big as most full grown adults you still can't ride a big atv. If a parent comes into the dealership and asks for a good ATV for the 15 yr old son from that point on you are not legally allowed to sell them a large machine (anything over 80cc) Funny thing is you can get whatever MX bike you like. 450f no problem.

Isn't that a riot. Hey little Johnny boy, you can't ride an atv so. Hmm. Lets get you a Kawasaki KX500 dirt bike, thats legal. You should be riding that baby in no time...

yeah that was dumb..thanks

[AirAssault]

oh jesus settle down. My point was that everybody was quick to judge the salesmen without knowing the whole story.

btw if you walked in and I was the salesman and you told me your experience, age would have nothing to do with it. I'd recommend you buy a used bike first so when you dump your shiny new R6 in the driveway you won't have to kick your own ass.
Start on an older bike and then move your way up to a newer and faster bike you'll learn alot more that way. my .02 cents

But hey it is a free country why not just start on a R1.

Not to get on your sheit but..... If I was a first time rider, and wanted the most powerful bike on the planet that is up to me. It is not up to the sales person what bike I buy. If you wouldn't sell it to me, your manager sure would, and if they didn't want my money some other bike shop would.

[Hoopty]

I wouldn't sell a newbie it either, but that's just me (and JohnS ). I wouldn't want to feel responsible for some idiot's death, not to mention the jack in rates for said accident. Take your money elsewhere then, let someone else put the nails in your coffin.

[JohnS]

Funny how ya just can't win.

Everyone gets mad when sales people sell big bikes to newbies and everyone gets mad when you won't sell a big bike to a newbie.

Damned if ya do and don't.

I'd rather sleep at night than recieve the $40-$60 mini commision you get for selling a bike to someone that beats you up on price.