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Thread: Oil and Filter Question

  1. #1

    Oil and Filter Question

    Can someone tell me the difference between a Suzuki OEM oil filter and an aftermarket filter such as a K&N filter? How about the different brands of oil or semi synthetic vs. 100% synthetic (which is better)?

    Thanks - El Gato
    GSXR 750 '03 (YLW/BLK)

  2. #2
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    Hey man I would suggest staying with the OEM filter, unless you have some engine work that requires a different filter… as far as oil I would suggest Mobil 1 synthetic(100%)… unless you have the big bucks to buy the motorcycle oil. I usually change my oil a lot, so I don’t see then need to spend the big buck on fancy oil.. I stick with the Mobil 1 and the OEM filter.. also remember if your changing the oil your self.. to replace the crush washers .. they are a small thin washer that goes between the oil plug and the engine case.. I’m no expert but that has always worked for me..

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    Well, Gramps is hands down our resident expert on filters so I will let him field that one.

    Differences in oil types ... well, one is a mix of petroleum and synthetic (for the "purists" who want the good stuff a synthetic oil gives). Synthetic is just that - 100% man-made, nothing sucked out of the ground. Most of the best synthetic oils are naturally the most expensive - Silkolene, Motul, Royal Purple. I've been hearing things in the grapevine so to speak about Mobil-1 MX4T and to stay away from it, as their quality has gone down. One of the best oils you can get is actually relatively low cost, the Amsoil high-perf motorcycle oil has been shown to do even better than the Silkolene stuff.

    For a semi-syn, I've used the Castrol Actevo 10W40 oil with good results in my superhawk, though it's on Silkolene full synthetic now and will be going to Amsoil at my next change.

    Oil is one of the more hotly debated topics on bike care, so I am trying to cut out as much BS as I can here and just tell it to you like I know it to be. Gramps (Tom) can do the same on filters hopefully, and we can wind up with a good bike tech thread on oil instead of the "my oil can beat up your oil" battles that normally happen.

    Oh, moving this to bike tech too.

  4. #4
    Member NZ Darren's Avatar
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    If you are using Mobil 1 make sure you get the one with the red cap, as it does not have the energy conserving additives the others have.
    As for Filter OEM, Mobile 1, K&N.... whatever, just don't use Fram.

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    Member Lel's Avatar
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    Mobil 1 MX4T fully synth is the way to go.

    Otherwise go with the Mobil 1 full synth auto oil.

    As far as filters, stick w/ oem, or go w/ a scotts cleanable filter (ie 1 filter forever) Frams blow off valve sucks, they can often blow w/o a plogged filter (from only high pressure) and will then cause there to be no point in having the filter. You can only filter down to a certain ppm so when they say things like 'can filter better by going to blah blah blah' it doesnt matter, everyone is already as small as it can.

    lel
    Jason Leleck
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  6. #6
    now with bi-turbo goodness Site Admin Mel's Avatar
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    I always do OEM filter with a full SYnthetic oil (castrol Syntec and Mobil 1 are readily available at any Checker or Pep Boys).

  7. #7
    Thanks for the info, I bought silkolene regular non-synthetic oil to air on the side of caution. I normally change the oil about every 1k so I am hoping that this will also be a positive in not allow the oil to break down to much.

    It sounds like the OEM filter is the way to go, I just wanted to see if I was going to get any better protection by going with something like a K&N or an upgraded filter.

    Looking forward to getting some feedback from Gramps

    Felix - El Gato
    GSXR 750 '03 (YLW/BLK)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Gato 750R
    Looking forward to getting some feedback from Gramps

    Felix - El Gato

    More like 2 pages of info you NEVER knew about oil and filters... it's good shyt tho...

    BTW Good to see Gramps and Wify on Weds!
    Newton

  9. #9
    I'm pumped... Let's let the healing begin! Lifetime Supporter ~Barn~'s Avatar
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    I *Love* my Scott's filter. It's stainless, washable, and reusable.

    It has great filtering mesh, as Gixxerjarhead and Jmetz can attest to. They helped me with my first change.

    And honestly, the built in magnet grabbed all the debris (seemingly), before it even reached the screens.

    It's spendy, but it will pay for itself.

    As far as oil, I use Yamasauce, or whatever Brian has on-hand at TK. =)
    ~Brandon~
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    I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
    Melissa Holbrook Pierson

  10. #10
    Member Quick636's Avatar
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    I'll give you the short version of what Tom is going to say

    K&N sucks... they have great marketing but an inferior product. Kawasaki, yamaha, suzuki etc. don't make their own filters, they buy them from someone else. One of the best on the market are Wix filters, bought at Carquest or Napa. Twice the filter for half the price, works for me....
    Jason
    Bikeless for now...

  11. #11
    Member lifeon2's Avatar
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    As a mechanic I can definitly tell you there is one difference between car oil and bike oil....the price they are the same dam thing buy the car oil or get screwed on the price thats about that oh and use napa gold filters they are cheaper than oem and better christ I remember some cycle monkey at a dealership trying to tell me some b.s. about longer polymers in bike oil

    if you need proof here is MCN's test results http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm
    If your gonna be dumb you gotta be tough


  12. #12
    Senior Member Moderator Gramps's Avatar
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    OK
    I'm finally on here to give you my take on filters.

    OE filters are a gamble. How many of you guys think that any manufacturer actually make filters?

    C'mon raise your hands

    There is not one bike or car manufacturer that actually produce their own filter. So they go find the filter they can make the most money on when they resale them. Simple bottom line type buisness stuff. They buy a cheap filter so they can make more money.

    Don't be fooled.

    Scott's are junk. They are about half the filtration for twice the price. Who wants to clean a dirty filter anyway? Why do you think everyone uses spin on filters. Easier and cleaner. Plus I like the insurance of putting a clean filter on and not trusting myself to clean an old one. Can you imagine a bunch of CSC guys and Barn drinking and having a big time and trying to get an oil filter clean! Also something to think about is that the particles that do dmage to your engine you can't see without a microscope. How then do you know you got the filter clean. I think the guys who like the Scott's filter just like the idea that they have a fancy peice on there bike. Kind of like all the Harley guys wear those Fancy bandanas and chaps because they like the idea. Neither one does a good job, or really does anything at all.

    In conclusion go to a reputable parts store and buy yourself a good filter made by a company that stays in buisness by manufacturing filters. For example : WIX, (NAPA,CARQUEST),

    I can spout out facts for ya if you want me to, just let me know.

    Tom
    '07 ZX-6R
    '12 1199 Panigale S

  13. #13
    Member Quick636's Avatar
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    I was trying to save you some time typing there Thomas...

    Personally I like Fram filters. I love the idea of soggy cardboard floating around in my motor
    Jason
    Bikeless for now...

  14. #14
    I'm pumped... Let's let the healing begin! Lifetime Supporter ~Barn~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramps
    I think the guys who like the Scott's filter just like the idea that they have a fancy peice on there bike.
    Well that and...

    A.) I'll never have to spend another red-cent on an oil filter for a bike that is certainly going to see it's fair share. (I'm averaging about 2000 miles a month for those of you keeping score at home).

    B.) It may not be the best filter on the world, but it works.

    C.) I'd be willing to bet that in the lifetime I own my bike, I don't experience any tramatic failure of componentry, due to debris in my oil.

    and D.) Did I mention it's the last filter I'll ever buy for this bike?..... Ever?...

    What's a decent oil filter cost anyway?... 11, 12 bucks?... At the rate I'm going, I'd probably be getting 2 filters for every three month period, so I'm buying about 5 or so filters per riding season. Maybe an additional 1 during the winter months, so $72.00 a year plus tax.... Over 4 years, you're looking at $300.00+ in oil filters alone.

    My Scotts cost me all of $100.00 w/ tax. Please also revist "B." and "C." above. They are crucial to my take on this whole question.

    ~Brandon~
    Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
    MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
    Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
    (720) 935-6438
    I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
    Melissa Holbrook Pierson

  15. #15
    I'm pumped... Let's let the healing begin! Lifetime Supporter ~Barn~'s Avatar
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    And for those of you who do not buy a Scott's or other reusable filter.... Do yourself a favor and buy the WIX ones. I'm almost certain that Tom know what he is talking about. He was just a little emotional when he mentioned the whole "junk" thing. :P
    ~Brandon~
    Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
    MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
    Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
    (720) 935-6438
    I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
    Melissa Holbrook Pierson

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Barn-
    And for those of you who do not buy a Scott's or other reusable filter.... Do yourself a favor and buy the WIX ones. I'm almost certain that Tom know what he is talking about. He was just a little emotional when he mentioned the whole "junk" thing. :P
    I'm quite certain that Tom knows what he was talking about. And I'm pretty sure he wasn't emotional, but rather was quoting fact. The Scott's filters are convenient, and might save some money, and certainly look the business - but personally I'd rather just buy the best thing I can get.

    And while you might not see "catastrophic failure", the potential is there with a filter that lets a bunch of crap through or has the possibility of not being cleaned. But you will wear down components faster, and lose power faster over time.

    It's your call.

    And as for the whole car vs bike oil debate ... well, why buy bike oil at all? Because some car oils DO have friction modifying additives in them, which cause slippage in wet clutches. And some car oils don't - hence why some car oils work in a bike just fine. But you really never know since the products typically don't tell you. What you get with motorcycle oil, is the assurance that what you're buying is going to be made for that application. And kids ... good bike oil isn't THAT expensive. Is Silkolene race oil? Well yeah - but there is no reason to run full-on race oil in a street bike.

  17. #17
    Member Quick636's Avatar
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    One more wrench to throw in the pile...

    You say that you don't expect a catastrophic failure while YOU own the bike... what about the next guy? Hell, it could be someone you know that ends up with your bike next.

    That attitude right there is why I will never buy a used bike again.
    Jason
    Bikeless for now...

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    Of course, the most important thing to remember when purchasing a used bike (as I've apparently discovered) is making sure the oil PUMP is still in the thing. Best oil in the world won't overcome that one...

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    Member Quick636's Avatar
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    Something like that could only happen to you Ralph.

    Just think, by the time you are done you'll have a brand new bike!
    Jason
    Bikeless for now...

  20. #20
    Junior Member Coloradoray's Avatar
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    I run Shell Rotella T dino; about $7 per gallon at WalMart. Does not have the friction modifiers. I ran it for about 55k in my last ST1100, and have been running it in my SuperChicken for 4k with no ill effects. Many of the ST1100 guys have been running it for years, and have had no oil related issues. Cheap enough to replace every 3k, without costing an arm and a leg. If you must have synth, Shell Rotella T synth in the blue bottle is also a great oil.
    Ray

    "Nation of sheep, owned by pigs, ruled by wolves."
    99 VTR 1000
    86 CR 250R

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quick636


    Something like that could only happen to you Ralph.

    Just think, by the time you are done you'll have a brand new bike!
    Yeah, I pulled it all apart this weekend. Crank looks ok other that a little bluing on the drive gear, and it'll need new bearings for sure.

    On the plus side ... my new oil filter is rather clean!

  22. #22
    I'm pumped... Let's let the healing begin! Lifetime Supporter ~Barn~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quick636
    One more wrench to throw in the pile...

    You say that you don't expect a catastrophic failure while YOU own the bike... what about the next guy? Hell, it could be someone you know that ends up with your bike next.

    That attitude right there is why I will never buy a used bike again.
    True, true... But I don't feel I'm neglecting the bike in anyway, doing scheduled maintenance with this part. (?)

    I mean.... It's not like Scott's is not a reputable company.

    And Ralph, I'm sure you're right about the parasitic loss of power under the scenario that you explain... But I certainly don't think that the Scott's piece is "a filter that lets a bunch of crap through". Everything I've read about it. (If even exaggerated), seems to atleast put it on par with good oil filters, if not above-average ones. And again, I'm not saying it's god's gift to oil filters. It just has a lot of "pros" to me.

    After all, Bryan and Bart both had good things to say about it. I trust their opinions to at least not put me onto something that is substandard equipment. If you think that it's fact that the part is junk... Well.. I consider myself warned.

    At least as much as I consider myself assured (by B & B) that it is not junk.

    You're blissfully unconcerned guinea-pig.
    ~Brandon~
    Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
    MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
    Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
    (720) 935-6438
    I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
    Melissa Holbrook Pierson

  23. #23
    Senior Member Moderator Gramps's Avatar
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    hey fellas just afew more things


    the scotts filter, from information on their website, says that it is a 35 micron filter

    WIX is a 9 micron filter at absolute testing

    most of the motorcyle manufacturers that i have read info on recommend 13 or lower, Barn is officially warned


    with this info in front of you just realize that motorcycle filters as well as light duty auto filters, are pretty over engineered at this point. There are only a few real bad products on the market"Junk".

    It is hard for me to even look at a reusable as a serious filter. There is no possible way you can tell me if it is clean or not. If it was doing it's job at a peak level ,you would not be able to get it clean no matter what you did.

    I'll leave you with a NASCAR saying," it's always fastest right before it blows up".

    Tom
    '07 ZX-6R
    '12 1199 Panigale S

  24. #24
    Senior Member Moderator Gramps's Avatar
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    oh yeah Barn

    good oil filters about $3.00

    do your math again sweet pea

    Tom
    '07 ZX-6R
    '12 1199 Panigale S

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