Question about race tires

[chesthing]

Hope someone here can educate me. I decided to try some race take offs on my VFR800 - I bought a couple sets of Michelin Power Race's. The size was identical to my sport-touring tires, 180/55/17, however they are way taller - the bike feels at least an inch taller than before.
The handling is killer, being on my toes at lights not so much. Before I take steps to lower the bike, are all race tires taller than the same size street tires or is this just a Power Race thing? any input appreciated

[PsychoMike]

sport touring tires dont have the same profile. thats all i can think of.

[rybo]

It is a profile issue. Now, what I'm about to say is a generalization and may not be true of ALL race tires, but it is true of the ones I've used, and there are going to be people on here who disagree with me about some of the statements I'm about to make, but bear with me and realize that it's one guy's opinion.

My experience with race tires is that their shape is more "triangular" than street tires. This allows the tire to have a larger contact patch when the bike is leaned over and offers the rider more grip on the edge of the tire. It also "encourages" the bike to turn more easily, as it really doesn't like sitting up up the top of that triangle. This is great for a racetrack because one of the things that needs to happen is the bike needs to get into the corner with as little effort as possible and offer as much grip as possible near the max lean angle. You bike feels taller because the center of the tire is quite a bit higher on race tires than street versions.

Street tires tend to have a more round profile that gives about the same size contact patch throughout the lean angles. This is good because it gives the bike a neutral feel at all angles and is very consistant. It is also good because very few street riders get to the maximum lean angle that their tire can provide, so you aren't wasting a great big chunk of rubber by not using it on the street. Finally it offers a lot of straight line stability that race tires can't offer.

Here is the opinion part that some are going to disagree with. There is a reason there are race tires and street tires. One is for racing and the other is for the street. The rubber compounds and construction of race tires are really designed to operate in a certain temperature range that you probably cannot approach on the street. They can be difficult to warm up (especially in the fall and winter) and offer only marginal grip in wet weather conditions. If you look at the edges of your race take offs you'll see there is little or no tread out there, meaning there is no place for water to go when you are rolling through a corner on them in the rain. I don't run my race take offs on the street and probably never will. I've found that good street tires work better on the street, especially when it's cold or wet outside. If you think that your bike handles better on race tires it may be a set up issue that can easily be solved by getting the help of someone who knows a thing or two about bike set up. I work with Dave Rose to set my bikes up and have always been pleased with the results ( www.fixmybike.com ).

Again I offer this as an opinion, but I really think that street tires are a better choice than race take offs any day of the year for street duty. Sure they cost a few extra bucks, but that pales in comparison to the cost of falling down some october morning because the tires were way too cold to work.

there you have it my .02....

s

[Bassil Duwaik]

I'll agree with everything stated by RYBO. I'll add another note, race tires don't last half as long as street even though you may pay more for them. The pilots I ride with give me 3000 if I'm lucky. The better the race tire the better it will grip the faster it will wear

[cu360r6]

Race tires are softer than street tires in rubber compounds, so even if they're cold they'll still over better traction than the best street tires. Even without tire warmers I can still put my knee down the first turn on cold race tires in practice. Profile and height varies with the brand, but generally they'll be taller and more triangular than street tires. The best thing to do would be to search the tire makers website for your stock tires and contact a race tire distributor for Michelin (Vanmar Racing in Denver) and compare the circumferences of each. Both ends of the bike going up or down is a lot more preferable than having one do so.

[chesthing]

It wasnt my intention to start a debate here, but I spent over $100 less on 3 rear and 2 front take offs than I would have spent on 1 new set of street tires. I don't feel any difference in high speed stability, but these tires handle corners way way better.

[BigE]

Chesthing, I hope two things for you; 1. you never ride in cold temps and 2. if ya do, that your insurance deductible is less than the hundred bucks you saved on tires.
Race tires will not get to the proper temp on the street in the summer let alone getting into fall/ winter temps. I ran a set one winter because A) I got a nail thru my rear tire and B) a buddy had a set of take-offs I got for free. They did ok going into work in the afternoon but when I went to grab dinner at 10pm @ 30-40 degrees the rear tire lit up turning in the parking lot at 2000 rpm! The next night it was only about 10 deg. and I had the rear spin up again then had both ends slide thru the next corner (still in the parking lot) and then the rear spun up again when I turned out onto the road. Needless to say I didn't ride those tires anymore and my Pirelli Strada street tires that I replaced them with never did anything stupid like that, all while being sticky enough to drag pegs and last way longer than any race take off.

[Polar X]

Its a profile issue like was said earlier. Odds are the tours were more round than the PR's which are triangular in shape. However if you think they hook up better than street tires when its cool outside you are in for some serious hurt. When I go out on cold tires on the track the front end feels like it is in water for the first lap or two. I can only imagine how long it would take on the street to get them warmed up.....BE CAREFULL !!!

[chesthing]

Thanks for the input, I'll be wary when it's chilly - if they don't work out I didnt spend much.

[dirkterrell]

I'm going to try a set of the new Pilot Road 2 tires on my VFR when these Bridgestones wear out. I've been very impressed with the Pilot Power 2CT tires on my Gixxer track bike. The Road 2's have been getting a lot of positive reviews from riders Down Under where they have been on the market for a while. The dual compound technology gives you a harder center for commuting/slabbing but softer sides for taking on the twisties.

Dirk

[lovinCO]

The size was identical to my sport-touring tires, 180/55/17, however they are way taller - the bike feels at least an inch taller than before.

That's interesting that the size was identical but the profile was taller--the tire height is the 55 in 180/55/17. You'd think if they're both 55's, they'd be the same heigth. I guess the other guy's triangulation is the answer.

I have Pilot Powers on my bike, they've been great so far, no moving in the riding we've done this summer. And no movement in those freezing rain puddles we rode through last Sunday. Seem to be good street tires.

[hcr25]

were the sport touring tires also michelin?

[mayhem]

i buy bridgestone battlax bt-002 race take-offs and they last me about 2000-3000 miles. i get them for $ 50.00 a set, beats the hell outta payin $149.00 a piece new.....and they grip and ride better than any street tire you could run....due to the dual compound of race tires,,,,medium in the middle and soft on the sides......feel like butter,,,,,,,,,,,,,just my .02

[dchd1130]

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires...res/index.html

[chesthing]

were the sport touring tires also michelin?

No, Continental road attacks.

I should say that the tires I'm using now are DOT race tires, not tires for racing only. They have rain grooves and wear bars and have the same load and psi ratings as my Road attacks, so I'm pretty confident they aren't going to cause me to slide off the road.

[mushin_man39]

I will never use my race DOTs on the street. The race tires are meant to run hot, thus tire warmers and warmup lap. The sides need to be hot to grip. On the street, you will never have the sides up to operating temp. And the colder the temp, the less grip. Certain tire companies have contracts preventing their distributors from selling takeoffs for fear of lawsuits. Want a quick trip to the pavement? Run race tires on the street.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires...vs_race_tires/

[cu360r6]

Race tires work best at race temps (usually 190-230 degrees), but that doesn't mean they won't work at street temps well. Generally race tires offer softer compounds and softer carcass construction to allow for higher grip and greater bump absorption which allows stiffer springs to be used and more feedback garnered. Both of those factors lead to a quicker warm up than harder and stiffer street tires. With a softer carcass and compounds you'll sacrifice wear for grip and warm up.

Without tire warmers on Dunlop slicks my racebike handles horribly until the front tire warms up after a couple corners, but that's because I have it setup to handle well when the tires are fully up to temp. By adjusting just the geometry you can easily get a bike to handle well on race tires at street temp.

[BigE]

After my previously mentioned slip 'n slides on DOT race take offs I will never use them on the street again, I like my bike too much to, let alone my skin.
Imho, if you're running DOT's hard enough to get them temp on the street you ought to be on the track.

[GSXRJOHNNY]

Why do the Bridgestone BT-002 tires say street/track? Do they warm up faster than the DOT race tires? Is there a difference? Maybe they are more street tire than race tires? Anyone know?

[chesthing]

Ok, I've decided to play it safe and put some new Road Attacks on since it's getting cold. I'll probably put the Races back on next summer when it's hot, just to get my money back on them. Thanks for all the replies and especially letting me know of a hazard I wasnt aware of, going down of course isnt worth saving money on tires.

[rybo]

Why do the Bridgestone BT-002 tires say street/track? Do they warm up faster than the DOT race tires? Is there a difference? Maybe they are more street tire than race tires? Anyone know?

This is a brand new tire from Bridgestone that is a street / trackday tire that is biased towards trackdays. It is different from the regular BT002 DOT race tire and should do fine on the street. I've not used a set yet, so I can't speak from anything but what I've read. I'll be trying a set the next time I swap tires on the duc.

s

[GNGSXR]

Why do the Bridgestone BT-002 tires say street/track? Do they warm up faster than the DOT race tires? Is there a difference? Maybe they are more street tire than race tires? Anyone know?

its because they are dual compound. they have the softer rubber on the sides where you wont normally be using on the street unless you are a dumbass.

[GSXRJOHNNY]

This is a brand new tire from Bridgestone that is a street / trackday tire that is biased towards trackdays. It is different from the regular BT002 DOT race tire and should do fine on the street. I've not used a set yet, so I can't speak from anything but what I've read. I'll be trying a set the next time I swap tires on the duc.

s

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. I've not needed tires for a long time and the GSXR will need a new rear after I hit 5,000 miles, or so it looks to me. That seems like good milage for the BT-014. I was thinking about doing some track days next year now I've gotten used to the new bike and it's power. So something like the BT-002 street/track sounds like a good way to go. The tire technology these days is really moving along!!! Hard to keep up to it!
Thanks again.