Need Some Dealer Advice...

[JustSomeDude]

Before I name any dealership names, I want to explain my situation to see if I'm overreacting, and just need to calm the hell down. This is my first time buying a new motorcycle, so perhaps I just need to be told, "this is the way it goes with new models", and I'll shut the hell up.

On October 4th I made a deposit on a certain 2008 model. I was told a delivery time of 7-10 business days. Ok, no problem. The next week the dealer calls me to tell me, "good news - only 7-10 days!" Well, that's what he told me the week before, but I let it slide. Now, I can only assume the dealer waited to place the order until my deposit check cleared, hence the follow-up phone call. This is gripe #1. If the check was going to cause a delay, I wish the dealer would've told me so I could've given him cash. That way the order could've been made with the warehouse instantaneously. But no such warning was provided.

So now, we are on business day 13 of the second 7-10 business day time frame (exactly 3 weeks from date of deposit)... and no bike. I emailed the dealer yesterday for an update, and he told me "any day now, but I can't make any guarantees." I replied, in a very nice email, "how about you knock a few hundred bucks off the assembly fee for my inconvenience." He emailed back two words, and I quote... "That's funny!!!!"

Needless to say, I'm extremely frustrated with this situation. To make things worse, I found another dealer in the Denver Metro area that had the same model ON THE FLOOR 2 days after I made the deposit (back in the first week of October). I feel like I'm just being toyed around with by my dealer and that they really don't give a fuck about me.

Can I get my deposit back? Do I have any kind of recourse here... or am I just overreacting?

[Kristian]

Ask for your deposit back. You gave them $, they gave you nothing! No contract. Heck, you probably can get a better deal from the other guy. FYI, the set up fee is bogus. They get reimbursed from the manufacturer to assemble the bike. They should just call it what it is, add'l profit.

[~Barn~]

Can I get my deposit back?

It's your first time buying, so it's forgivable that you didn't ask this before even making your deposit, but definitely this is something that you want to talk about and get squared away before giving anybody a red cent.

Now that being said, you still are entitled to your money back provided you didn't sign or agree to anything that would say otherwise. And yes... I would simply ask for it back. You don't need to explain, you don't need to rehash your issue(s) with them, hell... You don't even need to talk with the salesperson you've been dealing with.

Just go in and get the attention of a sales manager and tell them that you've changed your mind about the purchase and would like your $500 (or whatever) back. If they beg & plead for a reason, just politely tell them that the delivery date you were told to expect has been far from accurate and there is a dealership that has the model you want at the same price on their floor at this very moment.

Then if you want to extend your patience a little bit more, you can angle for them to waive the setup fee, and if they can offer you that you'll continue through with your purchase. But at that point of course, get stuff documented.

Keep in mind it doesn't have to be all personal and emotional. You're just not pleased with the inaccuracy of the delivery time. My guess is they will either happily hand you your money back, or they'll waive the setup and gladly accept the rest of your $$.

G'luck.

[dchd1130]

Well the shipping time from the factory is generally 7-10 days from the time they placed the order. They don't order your bike right when you order it because they would be paying to ship one bike at a time and that would make the cost of your bike much more expensive. They should have taken that into consideration and told you a better approximate time. At this point they need to get online and find out exactly when it will be in. I would expect better service my self. Its not like they are too busy to give you a little service this isn't exactly the busy time of year for t hem.

[JustSomeDude]

Thanks for the replies guys. While I feel like an idiot for not getting more info going into this deal, I sure have learned a lot. I signed no contract, so I would *assume* the deposit is refundable. However, I cannot be sure.

I'm going to call the sales manager when they open at 10 and see what I can do about getting my deposit back. Thanks again.

[rybo]

A contract has three key components, not all of them have to be written down.

1. Offer - This part is complete, they offered a bike at a price. (or in reverse, you offered to pay a price for a bike)

2. Acceptance- Also fulfilled, either they accepeted or you did (even verbally counts here)

3. Consideration- This has to go both ways. You offered a deposit for a service (them ordering the bike). In return they have to deliver on that service, otherwise the contract is essentially void.

Barn hit it on the head, I think if you simply approach them with the facts (the timeline promised was not met) and ask for your money back you will find little or no resistance.

Now, from a marketing perspective, I've known for years that one EXTREMELY happy customer is generally worth 3 additional customers. That seems pretty good. One unhappy customer generally costs a business 10. That's pretty bad. Now I learned something interesting about this the other day that really surprised me, and that is that if a business has an unhappy customer, and they resolve the situation that customer becomes twice as likely to refer the business than the customer who was happy to begin with...so, if they go out of their way to make it right, I'd say, let them.

Best to you

Scott

[dirkterrell]

It's your first time buying, so it's forgivable that you didn't ask this before even making your deposit, but definitely this is something that you want to talk about and get squared away before giving anybody a red cent.

Heed this advice from Brandon. Buying a vehicle is a negotiation and you have to do your homework ahead of time. You have to know going in how much you are willing to pay and if they don't meet that, you have to be prepared to walk out. When I bought the Gixxer, I knew they would want to sell it bad because I had watched it sit on the floor for months. They tried the usual MSRP plus all these fees. I told them what I would write a check for and they could split it up in any way they wanted with respect to their fees. They balked and I told them I was walking out the door. "Hang on, hang on, let me go talk to the sales manager again." They took my check. All those fees are just profit gravy for them. Hot-selling bikes will be tougher too negotiate, of course.

You want to have as many things in your favor as possible such as buying at the right time of the year. I would negotiate with the other dealer (and as many others as possible) and then see if the first dealer will beat it. Don't let the emotional drive of getting a new bike cloud your negotiating process.

Dirk

[~Barn~]

I actually would suggest you not do it over the phone, just because it's so hard to make anything "concrete" that way. You have to know that whoever you talk to, will probably spin and spin and spin. And no matter what is agreed upon, you will still neither have a bike, nor your money in your possession. It's an iffy approach is all I'm sayin'.

If you are there, and in person, and ready to pull the trigger to walk with your dough or to get your setup charge nixed, chances of getting further disappointed are much much smaller.

Food for thought.

[JustSomeDude]

I actually would suggest you not do it over the phone, just because it's so hard to make anything "concrete" that way. You have to know that whoever you talk to, will probably spin and spin and spin. And no matter what is agreed upon, you will still neither have a bike, nor your money in your possession. It's an iffy approach is all I'm sayin'.

If you are there, and in person, and ready to pull the trigger to walk with your dough or to get your setup charge nixed, chances of getting further disappointed are much much smaller.

Food for thought.

Good idea... I'll give you guys a report after my lunch break. Thanks again for everyone's input!!!

[JustSomeDude]

Looks like I'm screwed - turns out that after looking at my documentation, which I DID SIGN, it IS a non-refundable deposit. The only thing I have from them in writing is an estimate of 7-10 days for delivery, which I doubt constitutes much legal ground for a refund on my end.

Oh well ... my fault. Lesson learned. I can't really bash the dealer when I went into this on my own.

[~Barn~]

Ewww... dat'sucks. Well hey... sounds like you have a good attitude about it all. You're not going to be out much more than a bit of your time, so I guess it could be worse.

Enjoy the new rig when it shows, and get prepped for the next lesson on the agenda. Where you get your service done.

[Kristian]

Like many have said, keep a cool head, deal with the manager. They haven't kept up their end of the deal. If the mgr. doesn't help, go to the next level mgr., the higher you go, the less they want to deal with you.

[JustSomeDude]

Enjoy the new rig when it shows, and get prepped for the next lesson on the agenda. Where you get your service done.

It's a difficult situation in so many ways. I'd LOVE to take my bike elsewhere for the service, and never have to deal with these pantywaists ever again. Unfortunately, this dealer is literally 5 blocks from my condo, which makes bike pick up, service, etc. extremely convenient. The only other local dealer is out in Lakewood. Not very convenient for me... especially considering I also work downtown.

So, they've really got me by the short hairs - in so many ways - but location being the prime factor. Only thing I can really do is suck it up and hope their service department is better than their sales one.

[dchd1130]

It's a difficult situation in so many ways. I'd LOVE to take my bike elsewhere for the service, and never have to deal with these pantywaists ever again. Unfortunately, this dealer is literally 5 blocks from my condo, which makes bike pick up, service, etc. extremely convenient. The only other local dealer is out in Lakewood. Not very convenient for me... especially considering I also work downtown.

So, they've really got me by the short hairs - in so many ways - but location being the prime factor. Only thing I can really do is suck it up and hope their service department is better than their sales one.

not likely do a search most big shops service departments really lack in customer service skills.

[JustSomeDude]

not likely do a search most big shops service departments really lack in customer service skills.

It just sucks finding out that dealers really just don't give a shit about you at all - just getting their money. For the amount of loot we drop as customers, you think they're at least try to pretend to care.

Whatever. Ef 'em.

[dchd1130]

It just sucks finding out that dealers really just don't give a shit about you at all - just getting their money. For the amount of loot we drop as customers, you think they're at least try to pretend to care.

Whatever. Ef 'em.

Ahh some of them do care. You just need to talk to the right people. Like any other job/business they all have some lazy/burt out employees.

[pilot]

If you are going to be working with that dealer's service department it is time to establish a good working relationship with them. A good relationship consists of knowing as many employees on a first name basis, understanding their general service policy and schedules. Trying to get your bike to them when you need it least and they are the least busy. And yes, a six pack at the end of the day goes a long way.

Sorry to hear that you had a poor experience from a dealer. This time of year one would think that they are especially pleased to sell something. It is a tough market all the way around.

Good luck and happy riding.
Pilot

[CoPilot]

If you are going to be working with that dealer's service department it is time to establish a good working relationship with them. A good relationship consists of knowing as many employees on a first name basis, understanding their general service policy and schedules. Trying to get your bike to them when you need it least and they are the least busy. And yes, a six pack at the end of the day goes a long way.

Sorry to hear that you had a poor experience from a dealer. This time of year one would think that they are especially pleased to sell something. It is a tough market all the way around.

Good luck and happy riding.
Pilot

[opie]

Not to interrupt this fascinating and absolutely hilarious side-thread about Pilot's groupie, but I have to differ on one point.

>If you are going to be working with that dealer's service department it is time to establish a good working relationship with them.

I'm not sure how it works at most MC dealerships, but with cars... there's a service lackey (adviser) who runs things at the desk. This is the person who takes care of follow-up appointments, makes helpful (often unnecessary) service recommendations to customers, and so forth. Most of the time, you never meet the mechanic who works on your vehicle and there's not a lot of benefit to schmoozing the service advisor.

Because he never meets you, for the dealer's mechanic, your vehicle is just another job. And one for which he is incentivized to perform quickly but not necessarily well. So if you're not going to do it yourself, this is yet another reason to find an independent wrench rather than a dealer's shop. p.s. Obvious caveat to warranty work.

My 0.02.
-O

[JustSomeDude]

Well - a small update after my visit today...

As recommended I went in with a cool head (which was more difficult than you know - as I have a hard time controlling my temper), and focused on the facts.

The dealer admitted that things had definitely not going as expected, and they understood my anger/frustration. Some progress was made toward an end result, with the dealer offering some incentives for me to stay. As the sale's manager told me, "we will make this right." They were on the right track, but I will wait to see what all they will do for me once the bike arrives.

I will keep everyone posted as to how this all ends up. Hopefully I'll be able to provide a glowing review of this dealership once all is said and done.

[pilot]

Glad to hear the good news. I'm sure everyone is unanimous in the hope that it keeps on coming.

[konichd]

Well - a small update after my visit today...

As recommended I went in with a cool head (which was more difficult than you know - as I have a hard time controlling my temper), and focused on the facts.

The dealer admitted that things had definitely not going as expected, and they understood my anger/frustration. Some progress was made toward an end result, with the dealer offering some incentives for me to stay. As the sale's manager told me, "we will make this right." They were on the right track, but I will wait to see what all they will do for me once the bike arrives.

I will keep everyone posted as to how this all ends up. Hopefully I'll be able to provide a glowing review of this dealership once all is said and done.

Personally take your business somewhere else.

Yes you signed a contract, but that contract was based on the verbal obligation that the bike would be delivered in "X" days. Thier acknowledgement that things "are not going as expected" re-iterates this fact.

If another dealer has the bike you want in stock, go get it. You have no obligation to this other dealer since they did not fullfil the obligation of delivery, you signing a contract was based upon this verbal acceptance that the bike would be delivered by a certain date.

Get your money back and take it somewhere else. Afterall it doesn't sound like they are going to do anything as far as incentives for your inconvenience.

[JustSomeDude]

Personally take your business somewhere else.

Yes you signed a contract, but that contract was based on the verbal obligation that the bike would be delivered in "X" days. Thier acknowledgement that things "are not going as expected" re-iterates this fact.

If another dealer has the bike you want in stock, go get it. You have no obligation to this other dealer since they did not fullfil the obligation of delivery, you signing a contract was based upon this verbal acceptance that the bike would be delivered by a certain date.

Get your money back and take it somewhere else. Afterall it doesn't sound like they are going to do anything as far as incentives for your inconvenience.

Hey DK,

There actually are some decent incentives, I just don't want to post the details until everything is finalized. I also expect them to step up more once it all gets completed. I want to give these guys a chance to, as they said, "make things right."

They are actually working to transfer the bike in question from the other dealership, so I may have it tomorrow if the transfer runs smoothly. I'm going to give them this chance to fix their mistake.

[konichd]

Sounds good! But what happens if "things don't go smoothly?"

You could go to the other dealer and be riding your new bike by 10 o'clock