I have always told people..

[Killa Kawi]

I always say never panic. If your in a corner at a little faster than you would like to be, dont panic, ride it out hold the throttle speed at where you are and take the turn or just ease off the throttle but dont start slamming on your brakes, that could end up very bad!

[Killa Kawi]

right..i never release my throttle im usually gettin on it when exiting..

[ZiaThunder]

When in doubt, give it gas and lean more.... is what I had someone tell me after I highsided. It has worked well for me so far.

[Killa Kawi]

i guess things like that can make ya learn fast..

[Sortarican]

That's why I hang so far off the bike.
If I come in too hot I usually shit myself.
Which then lowers my center of gravity and pulls me through the corner.
(Sometimes being old pays off.)

[pilot]

Even "easing off" the throttle can make you run wide. Look deeper into the corner and the rest will follow.

You've been studying. Nice.

For the most part, our bikes can handle a lot more than what our brains think they can. Staying on "maintenance throttle" and pushing on that inside grip to counter-steer the bike more into the turn will give you a good chance at making it through. Even if you go down in a low side it might just be better than going high-side and wide off the road, into a wall, down in the ditch, etc.

Most riders don't realize that they tend to push on the outside grip and thus actually are fighting themselves through the turn. Next time your out try making an easy right-hander only applying pressure on the throttle side. Then easily re-apply pressure to the left grip and watch that the bike will start to go wide. Pressure on the right grip (along with other techniques) is of course what will cause the bike to stand up coming out of a turn.

A good read from any of the primary authors will enhance your riding style.

[Killa Kawi]

yes sir..i actually did learn that handle bar press is a big issue in cornering..

[dragos13]

if you roll off the throttle, and even apply slight brakes, wont that cause the front to compress changing geometry and making your bike turn "tighter" into the corner?

i think if you are looking through the corner far enough, you wont notice how hot you have come in. but like said above, the bike can handle more then our brains.

[dragos13]

60/40 at what time? during the apex, entrance, exit?
of course if you over-compress the front it will tuck on you, i am talking about when you are first turning into the corner, after setting your entrance speed. if you find yourself going wide, compressing the front will tighten your turn radius. thats why you brake into turns, and gas out of them.

[Killa Kawi]

also a great point

[Bueller]

Definitely curious where this technique comes from?

[dragos13]

..When you hit the gas the rear rises so that will put preasure on the front if you don't get crazy with it.

did you hear this or actually learn it in practice? when you get on the gas, it causes the rear end to compress, and the front to extend, thus causing the bike to straighten up and turn wider. opposite of braking into the turn, which causes a tighter radius when the front is compressed.

[lovinCO]

You are looking for a 60/40 split (60% of weight on rear, 40 on front)

I think you mean more weight on the front, less on the rear. As you're approaching an apex it's more front/less rear weight bias, because you're deceling to the apex and then accelerating out of the corner. The second half of the corner is more rear weight because the weight transfers back.

[Bueller]

You still decelerate even once you start turning?

Brake to the apex accelerate past.

Put your bike aginst a curb and give the rear some power. Which way did the bike go?

Watch a bike actually accelerate and the rear end will squat, watch the drag bike here and tell me what the rear does.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9M-9jt-lRyc&feature=related

[Bueller]

Just to be clear it should be noted that this is more oriented to performance riding.

[dragos13]

Put your bike aginst a curb and give the rear some power. Which way did the bike go?

sorry but i put my bike on the track, give it power and see what happens. whats the point of putting it up against a curb? we are talking about taking corners, not parking lot experiments. not trying to hate just trying to keep info correct.

[dragos13]

You still decelerate even once you start turning?

look into trail braking. its very efficient and used quite often. setting speed before entrance is good for street riding, to be on the safe side.

[lovinCO]

Just to be clear it should be noted that this is more oriented to performance riding.

Yes, I was talking about harder cornering, rather than a relaxed sweeping corner on the street. Where'd all the posts go? I thought it was a discussion?

BTW, I'm a big fan of the Twist of the Wrist series--good resource.

[pilot]

Before I go into the litany of discussion that you all so love, LOL, I want to make it clear that in the discussion of trail braking (using the brake in a turn to change the geometry of the bike as it relates to the road surface) that this should only be practiced by experienced riders in controlled conditions and best with prior instruction from qualified instructors, whether they be from a recognized riding school or successful track based operations. This is not a technique to be tried by those still learning the difference between the brake and clutch.

if you roll off the throttle, and even apply slight brakes, wont that cause the front to compress changing geometry and making your bike turn "tighter" into the corner?

i think if you are looking through the corner far enough, you wont notice how hot you have come in. but like said above, the bike can handle more then our brains.

First question: Absolutely, as long as the rider was on the brakes prior to turning in. If brakes are applied after turn in it has the opposite effect and tends to stand the bike up. For the second part on vision, a rider should be using peripheral vision to observe what is going on at the edges of his or her sight. Looking through the corner allows for several advantages, one of which is that it creates the image in our minds that things are slowing down. As long as one has selected a turn-in point and then looking through to the exit the mind will be able to stitch the distance between the two, i.e. connect the dots. Riders who tend to select multiple points through a turn tend to create multiple "turn" points causing the bike to follow their vision and weave. Another issue with selected reference points to view within a turn, such as a patch, repair, beginning of a rumble strip is that it can cause momentary focus on that point and lead the rider to "aim" vision and thus bike at that location. Now, unless the bike and rider tend to stop at that point the vision was focused at the rider should continue to look ahead. This is a difficult task to master and so it requires continued practice.

In today's world of vision our labors tend to task us to looking at one point; whether we are looking at a computer screen, a microscope, or myriad of technological devices that are present today, we lean towards what can be termed as "spotlight" or narrow field of view. This viewpoint causes us to loose sight of things around us. Such items like a rock in the road, diesel fuel spill or that racer next to us in a turn. Keeping one's vision as wide as possible while looking down the road/track will provide us with an optimum of timing advantages.

60/40 at what time? during the apex, entrance, exit?
of course if you over-compress the front it will tuck on you, i am talking about when you are first turning into the corner, after setting your entrance speed. if you find yourself going wide, compressing the front will tighten your turn radius. thats why you brake into turns, and gas out of them.

Freddie Spencer had this technique down to a "T". Neither the brake nor the throttle should be applied in a vigorous manner. Better to apply them in a smooth roll-on/off method. If a near 50/50 weight distribution can be attained throughout a corner then the suspension can be stabilized allowing it to maximize it's traction needs of the front and rear tire.

did you hear this or actually learn it in practice? when you get on the gas, it causes the rear end to compress, and the front to extend, thus causing the bike to straighten up and turn wider. opposite of braking into the turn, which causes a tighter radius when the front is compressed.

I realize that you have posed this question to another rider, however, I may have been the one to pass this information on and I stand by it as I have practiced this not only against a wall, but also on the track and street. The technique has been proven by many instructors, authors and racers alike. Staying on the gas (maintenance throttle, neutral throttle, cracked open, etc.) will help the bike maintain its position throughout the turn. Strong throttle will cause the bike to stand up. Going from no brake to hard braking will cause the same effect if applied in the turn. The trick is to throttle through the turn while applying an inverse brake action = more gas less brake, less gas more brake.

I think you mean more weight on the front, less on the rear. As you're approaching an apex it's more front/less rear weight bias, because you're deceling to the apex and then accelerating out of the corner. The second half of the corner is more rear weight because the weight transfers back.

Sounds correct.

Brake to the apex accelerate past.


Watch a bike actually accelerate and the rear end will squat, watch the drag bike here and tell me what the rear does.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9M-9jt-lRyc&feature=related

Momentarily under such extreme acceleration the bike does squat as it attempts to flip over. Wheelie bars and extremely long wheel bases protect from this on drag bikes, cars, tractors. However, a motorcycle will rise up on its suspension, front and rear, when the throttle is applied smoothly in a corner. This is critical for cornering clearance.

sorry but i put my bike on the track, give it power and see what happens. whats the point of putting it up against a curb? we are talking about taking corners, not parking lot experiments. not trying to hate just trying to keep info correct.

No hate involved at all. You are just making a point based on your observations and successful racing experience (congrats on a fine season). Although the atmosphere of the surroundings may change, the motorcycle is still the same. Applying throttle in a turn does cause the bike to rise up on its suspension. The benefit is greater ground clearance and thus allowing increased lean and lean angle is what makes a bike turn.

Yes, I was talking about harder cornering, rather than a relaxed sweeping corner on the street. Where'd all the posts go? I thought it was a discussion?

BTW, I'm a big fan of the Twist of the Wrist series--good resource.

Keith Code does a good job of explaining his technique. I'm glad to see that he came out of educational retirement. Teaching the same thing over and over again can get kind of boring. But he, like us, needs to pay the bills.

[dragos13]

great follow up pilot!!!

[gsxrscott]

Thanks Pilot!

[Killa Kawi]

yes nicely done

[ChickenStrip]

What would we all do without Pilot!!!