Octane

**Husky** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 08:16 AM

I noticed we have access to all sorts of different high octane gas and some performance shops even sell Octane Boosters. Just wondering how much is too much. Anyone know approx. the highest octane rating that is best for sportbikes?.................thanks

**brian38** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:11 AM

The lowest octane you can use without detonation is going to provide the best performance. Octane is a flame retardent quality (slows down burning) to prevent detonation (preignition). Too much octane and you will actually lose power. Good race fuels have other components in them to help provide power as well as the octane for detonation protection. Race fuels are typically more consistent.

A high end fuel like VP MR9, which is their highest power producing motorcycle fuel, is only 87 Octane but produces awsome power for something you just pour in!

Here is a link you may want to look at...
MR9 http://www.vpracingfuels.com/article...URL=1868540940

Or Octane http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_fuelprop.html

Brian

**rocktboy** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:07 AM

the vp mr9 is a leaded fuel. what does it do to our engine if most bike manufacturer specifies unleaded gas only

**brian38** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:19 AM

Lead is a lubricant. It is okay for a bike with the following exceptions...

If your bike has an O2 sensor in the exhaust, lead will kill the sensor.
If your bike has a catalytic converter ('03 R6 etc), lead will kill the converter.

Usually if you replace the exhaust system with an aftermarket pipe you will be able to run leaded fuels. Oh yea, on the track. Race fuels are sold as off road use only.

Brian.

**Husky** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 01:59 PM

Thanks for your reply, I just bought some 100 octane (unleaded) from Duggans Petroleume over on south Sante Fe. Does anyone have any experience running their fuels?

**Anonymous** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:09 PM

It's not race fuel, but is high octane. Just for reference, you won't need super high octane stuff on a bike engine unless you have high compression, since the higher octane fuel prevents detonation. NOS will help with that too...

Race fuel is a bit different however, as brian said it might have power-enhancing additives. The purity and quality will also be way more consistent than what you get with pump gas. It's also $5 a gallon (sometimes more), so you gotta decide if it's worth the price.

**Husky** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:13 PM

Do you know of a good place to buy race fuel?

**brian38** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Husky

Do you know of a good place to buy race fuel?

Hmmm...

I bet I can help with that

I am a VP fuel dealer.

Like rforsythe said, the fuel can get expensive for the ggod stuff. Well worth a weekend run, but probably not for daily commuting.

**yakuza** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 03:09 PM

Hey Brian,

Are you able to discuss pricing here, or should I speak with you offline? I ask because in speaking to a mechanic for a race team at Loudon, he was recommending the "Ultimate4" as a cost-effective fuel for the club racer. He said it was about $8/gallon, so I'm curious as to how it compares price-wise with the MR9, MR1, and MRX01.

I'm currently still running pump gas, but plan on making the migration to race fuel in the next month or two.

Good topic, Husky, this is something thats been in the back of my mind for awhile, it's nice to have such knowledgeable people on this board.

**brian38** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 03:24 PM

I don't have price sheets in front of me but here goes some numbers..
Ultimate4 $8 /gal
MR1 $13.75 /gal
MRX01 $16 - $17 /gal
MR9 we are hearing $18-$20 /gal (the cool stuff is always the most :P )

These are all the best performers VP sells.

Keep in mind that just "dumping in" race fuels will get some better performance, and definately better throttle response from the ones above, but to maximize the fuels they do need to be mapped or jetted to the bikes they go in.

Brian

**yakuza** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 03:41 PM

Keep in mind that just "dumping in" race fuels will get some better performance, and definately better throttle response from the ones above, but to maximize the fuels they do need to be mapped or jetted to the bikes they go in.

Thanks for the info, Brian, it's good to have a baseline. And the cost of the mapping is one of the main reasons for me not doing moving to race gas right now. Wanna email me the map for your F4i from last year?

**UglyDogRacing** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by yakuza

Keep in mind that just "dumping in" race fuels will get some better performance, and definately better throttle response from the ones above, but to maximize the fuels they do need to be mapped or jetted to the bikes they go in.

Thanks for the info, Brian, it's good to have a baseline. And the cost of the mapping is one of the main reasons for me not doing moving to race gas right now. Wanna email me the map for your F4i from last year?

You'd probably need to stick an Arrow exhaust on it for that map to work. Besides, that bike is running around in SoCal now.

**yakuza** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 04:53 PM

Heh, good points. I knew I'd have to get a "real" map made for my bike at some point anyways to get it running optimal. I'm still the slowest thing on my bike at this point anyway, so that can wait a little while.

**brian38** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 04:56 PM

I might still have a nice shiny Akro full system with map we could slap right on that bad boy!!!

Brian

BTW: doesn't matter how fast or slow you are more power never hurts!

**UglyDogRacing** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by yakuza

Heh, good points. I knew I'd have to get a "real" map made for my bike at some point anyways to get it running optimal. I'm still the slowest thing on my bike at this point anyway, so that can wait a little while.

TK Racing has a dyno and Bart can create a map for you. Talk to Brian about it.

**yakuza** · Tue Apr 22nd, 2003, 05:11 PM

Thanks Brian, I've already got the full Akra system. I'll definitely talk to you guys about it more when I'm ready to do the mapping and race gas. I'm under the impression it costs about $300-$400 for the tuning to create the custom map, is this correct? Hmmm, maybe when my tax return finally shows up...

**brian38** · Wed Apr 23rd, 2003, 11:34 PM

Had to let you guys know.

I have an '03 R6 and we ran it on our new Dyno tonight.
Put on a full exhaust system and gained 6hp on the Dyno.
Put in Ultimate4 VP fuel and picked up another 4hp.
This was a straight bolt on and pour it in.

NO Power Commander!.

Based on the mixture we can get even more out of a Power Commander and a map.
Is this cool or what!!!

Brian

**jwimbauer** · Fri May 2nd, 2003, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Husky

Thanks for your reply, I just bought some 100 octane (unleaded) from Duggans Petroleume over on south Sante Fe. Does anyone have any experience running their fuels?

We used to run their B32 and B35 product in two-strokes as well as in the SVs (back in 2000). It's not bad at all. Keep in mind guys that most VP race fuels are oxyginated (up to 3.5%) and it will make it run leaner and hotter.

High compression motors like race gas - I am not sure about the stock motors as we did not see ANY difference between race fuel and 93 octance pump gas (you get that in the South) on the dyno chart of our endurance SV.

We are planning on a dyno day with the new R6 and will try different fuels as a part of it. I'll keep you posted if anyone is interested

thanks

Jurgen

**Hoopty** · Fri May 2nd, 2003, 02:39 PM

Please do update us, I'd be interested in hearing the results.

Is the motor on the R6 still stock?

**jwimbauer** · Fri May 2nd, 2003, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hoopty

Please do update us, I'd be interested in hearing the results.

Is the motor on the R6 still stock?

2003 R6, Arrow full Titanium exhaust system, PowerCommand IIIUSB, 5 angle valve job, degreed cams, shaved head (just a cleanup - no major compression increase).

The endurance one is bone stock exept the Arrow exhaust.

Will do

**jwimbauer** · Tue May 13th, 2003, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hoopty

Please do update us, I'd be interested in hearing the results.

Is the motor on the R6 still stock?

After testing the VP fuel (and I was somewhat sceptical) - I was very impressed. The dyno (back to back runs) showed an improvement of 3.4% on power and added torque. We measured the gains over a series of 3 runs each configuration and surprisingly - the bike didn't end up any hotter/cooler with race fuel that with pump gas.

Only when we changed the zero map of the power commander to a customized map (that had lean spots) did we pick up around 5 degrees in temp but not nearly close to what I actually expected. The map added another 1.8% in power.

Needless to say that I bought 15 gallons and we went to Nashville. Finally, Nicky didn't get his doors blown off on the straights and he could stay and actually get out of drafts for a pass.

Perhaps the inline 4s are different than the SV or perhaps we had questionable dyno last year - but I am really surprised how much usable HP the fuel and the map added with no negative side effect (it even smells good).

C'ya guys

Jurgen

**yakuza** · Tue May 13th, 2003, 05:05 PM

Thanks for the update, Jurgen, it's cool to hear what you guys are up to all over the country.

This makes me curious to try the zero map on my powercommander again, I never rode with it, just immediately rode with the Akra map. Eventually I'll be going for the custom map with some good race gas, but even with pump gas I was able to hold my own pretty well at Pueblo, at least against the other 600's. I just gotta work on my confidence off the line, it was pretty hairy heading into turn 1 surrounded by 20+ bikes.

**Hoopty** · Tue May 13th, 2003, 07:21 PM

Excellent, Jurgen!!!

Which VP fuel did you use? Brian listed these before, just curious.

I don't have price sheets in front of me but here goes some numbers..
Ultimate4 $8 /gal
MR1 $13.75 /gal
MRX01 $16 - $17 /gal
MR9 we are hearing $18-$20 /gal (the cool stuff is always the most )

These are all the best performers VP sells.

**UglyDogRacing** · Tue May 13th, 2003, 07:32 PM

I had my bike remapped for VP Ultimate 4 and I got a 6hp increase. Thanks TK Motorsports.

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