GRAND PRIX MOTORSPORTS

[troythetroll]

Stop saying bad things about dealers, apparently everybody but us knows how great they are and those of us who are familiar with the hosing they dish out are just malcontents angry at the world for no other reason than...well....the hosing they dish out I guess.

Beats me....

[firefghtr]

[kevplus2]

dealerships give you crap on your trade in, charge you too muchover msrp for a new bike (and parts later on), strip the aftermarket goodies off your trade in and then try and sell it for 2 times what it is worth.

at least that is how i found colorado powersports does business. from looking at the prices/conditions of used bikes at dealerships in other denver/boulder dealerships it seems to be a common practice.

i'm not gonna agree to spend extra $ to make life good for a dealership or salesman. i am shopping for me...not them. if they cant give me a price i like, screw them...i will find another dealer that will be more than willing to take my $$ (just less of it)

[Wahooman]

Geez......and I was excited about our new venture We have lots to learn but until you learn that it is a "business" and yes they are there to make money you will always walk away angry. Its not the price that should be your sole decision....unless you are a bottom feeder. I challenge you to look at the customer experience what else they offer during your experience.
I have had to pretty good expereinces purchasing a new Gixxer at CO Powersports...buying 2 new bikes in 4 months....it was based soley on price due to the fact they had what I wanted. Other places I went if I didn't like what I saw, felt, or heard I walked. Didn't hold anything against them, but knew it was not the place for me. I would rather pay more for a bike and have a great experience and know they are there to take care of me in the future and connect with me. Building a relationship shows what they are all about.
My .02
Oh, and I also heard the new owners at Twin Peaks are some amazing people

[kevplus2]

dont get me wrong, i have had some great buying experiences and i dont go soley by price, but i am not gonna give some schmuck who doesnt even know the hp at the crank or the length of the warranty extra $ just b/c he has what i am looking for. im not a "bottom feeder" as you so eloquently put it, but im not there to put $ in his pocket if he cant satisfactorily do his job. isnt that what the commission is for, doing his job and doing it right?

salesman (who i agree arent all bad) say they dont like dealing with someone who is hard to deal with, sorry but that is their job. they arent the ones about to drop upwards of 10k on a new bike, the customer is. to me 10 grand is worth being kind of an ass about, especially if the saleman doesnt know his sh1te.

i think alot of salesmen (especially bike salesmen) lose sight of the fact that 10k is still alot of cash. think of it as if it were your $ and you may understand why they are being hard to deal with

[Wahooman]

My previous post was not directed at anyone individually.....just stating what I was seeing discussed throughout the entire thread....but I guess it was put eloquently

Firefigher...I didn't know you worked at Grand Prix.....still working at my old place of work in littleton?

[mra828]

Geez......and I was excited about our new venture We have lots to learn but until you learn that it is a "business" and yes they are there to make money you will always walk away angry. Its not the price that should be your sole decision....unless you are a bottom feeder. I challenge you to look at the customer experience what else they offer during your experience.
I have had to pretty good expereinces purchasing a new Gixxer at CO Powersports...buying 2 new bikes in 4 months....it was based soley on price due to the fact they had what I wanted. Other places I went if I didn't like what I saw, felt, or heard I walked. Didn't hold anything against them, but knew it was not the place for me. I would rather pay more for a bike and have a great experience and know they are there to take care of me in the future and connect with me. Building a relationship shows what they are all about.
My .02
Oh, and I also heard the new owners at Twin Peaks are some amazing people

OK - you've got me curious.

I agree that, from the dealer's perspective, it's difficult - and arguably bad for business - to try to compete solely on price. Differentiation is key and getting paid for that extra value is critical to the dealership's success.

But when you say:

I challenge you to look at the customer experience what else they offer during your experience.

what sorts of things are you referring to? More importantly - what kinds of things do dealerships do, (Twin Peaks or others) that add value to the customer and validate extra $$ paid?

Honest question - because I'm not sure I see a lot of strong value in many dealerships. It's rare to find a service dept. more qualified and with better service than some of the cheaper/smaller shops. Locale and product stocking are fine - but that's hardly much of a differentiating feature compared to other dealers in the area.

So what sorts of things do you feel add value to the customer that validate: a) extra $$ spent at a dealer b) customer loyalty to a dealer rather than searching for the lowest priced dealer?

FWIW: I just bought a bike from CO Powersports in Boulder. I bought it partly b/c it was convenient - but mostly b/c I got a great price. As friendly and helpful as the sales guys are there - I never felt that they were my friend and don't see any reason to bring the bike back there for service. Nor would I go back there instead of to the Kawi shop in Longmont or somewhere else (dealer or private party) for my next bike purchase... In other words, I have no complaints - but there's a big difference between a satisfied customer and a loyal customer - and I haven't personally seen any dealers provide loyalty worthy value.

geoff

[Hoopty]

Frisco- I agree on the GP service dept!!! They charged my buddy $500+ for a new clutch that should have been covered under warranty!!!

[kevplus2]

and another question about stocking parts/accessories...how come nobody stocks anything anymore? i know it is impossible to carry everything, but it seems like no matter what shop you go into (twin peaks is guilty of this too), there is nothing in stock. no matter what you need short of oil or grips, they have to order it and you wait for 2-3 days (or more). now why wouldnt i just go online, order it myself and wait the 2-3 days but get it at a cheaper price. even oem stuff is cheaper through places like ron ayers. hell i usually have to point out the parts on the fiche to the guy working the counter anyway, so i might as well do it all and save a couple bucks (even wih shipping)

and on to the discussion of tires. i have in the past always taken my rims (off the bike) to twin peaks to have tires mounted. now because i buy tires online, they chagre 50-60 bucks to mount and balance 2 tires (again, wheels off the bike). kinda ridiculous to charge an hours worth of labor for a 20 min job but i understand that is about what everyone charges. i have always gone to twin peaks because of location and they have always takn great care of my rims (oz and i am a picky mo-fo about my rims). nate always did a great job and the younger guy after him (chris i think) also made sure nothing got scratched/chipped/etc. the point is, even after buying the tires online, paying for tax and shipping and paying the 60 bucks to have them mounted, i still got off cheaper than buying the tires through twin peaks and having them mounted for free. on average, you can get a complete set for just a little bit over what a shop wants just for the rear (dtma - 220 for a set, shops want about 200 for a rear 190/50/17 depending on the tire - avon 49/50 sp was the last set i bought). i have 2 bikes and go through about 2-3 sets of tires on each bike in a season and if a local shop would sell tires for a decent price and include mounting/balancing i would definitely buy every set from them. buying online can be a pain but it is worth it until a local shop steps up

this is in no way meant to bash any local shop, but if a shop would do listen to local customers and make it worth shopping there they would have a boatload of business once the word got out (and you know we spread the word...good or bad )

[R1ch]

I have the same question, what kind of service should I pay more for? I have had bad experiences down in Colo Spgs. Apex will not budge on the price (unless you know someone there) and Rocky Mountain I had a sales person sell me the bike (I put a deposit down) the sales person quit and the manager of the store say he would not honor the lowered price. Not likely either will get my business again. I have purchased my last 2 bikes (04 R1, 04 YZ450F) from Colorado Powersports. They had good prices on the bikes. Service? They introduced me to the service dept and manager, they went over the functions on the bike and made suggestions on service and break in, they helped me load the bikes onto my truck, they were friendly the sent me a thank you note in the mail, the called me on the R1 to thank me and make sure everything was ok. I expect all of these things and most dealerships do this. Apex will take a picture of you with your bike and stick it on a calendar (which I thought was a nice touch). But other than that, what service are we talking about?

Price is utmost important, the only time service is considered is if a dealership has poor service or a bad reputation. Other than that what differentiates between dealerships? I see none other than price difference or a dealership that has a bad rep/indifferent staff/inadequate service dept.

If we exclude the bad ones, what differentiates the good ones? Not much, a picture and a calendar I suppose. But perhaps someone in the business could enlighten us. What would differentiate one dealership from another? You only have to look at the car dealerships too see the answers.

I would feel special, or feel the dealer is going above and beyond if:

The motorcycle dealership would give me a coupon for a free/reduced price oil change/changes or first service. This would better introduce me to the service dept and let me get a feel for what they do and feel special.
The sales person actually calls me when a bike I was interested in actually came in. (they claim to do this but even Co Powersports did not do this for my R1 and I had to call Denver to find out it was in and leave a credit card dep to hold one)
Deliver the bike to my house if I did not want to drive it away.
Have all my paperwork ready so I just have to sign and not waste time if I call ahead to purchase a bike.
Actually call me the day special order parts come in.
Give me priority service dept service by putting me ahead of other people who had not purchased their bike from the dealership.
Give 15 min priority service to any customer needing a tire changed instead of having to drop the bike/wheel off.
Have enough people staffed to answer phones in less than 3 mins for parts, service, and sales.
Have clean restroom that are not shared by mechanics.
Area with tv for wifes/children while they wait for decision on bike purchase or service dept
Perhaps include Parts counters with tv/mx rr supermoto racing videos to watch while waiting, Dish network with hardrive to record MX, SX RoadRace, Enduro, Supermoto, Freestyle events and have them played back.

Other differentiator could include

For dirtbike racers, include a packet that includes all the Motorcross/Supercross organizations, with events for the year calendar, website, and contact information.

For trail riders include good maps of the area, where to go riding in Colorado, how to street legalize bike and other necessary informations
For street include maps of favorite trips/rides, must see places and events for the year, website like CSC to meet up for rides.
Have access to Internet with links to current bike shootouts, race orgs, CSC, other important information
Work with race orgs SRAC RMXA RMEC MRA for 1 free race or reduced cost entry fee or org fee for those joining those orgs for the first time. Introduce racing, more people for orgs, more bike and parts sales.
Rental of bullet proof bikes TTr125 xr250 KLX300 to introduce people to the joy of motorcycling, possibly supply courtesy bike while one is down over the weekend.
Discount to motorcycle driving schools or supply a street legal ttr125 (or small street bike) to take drivers test on.

The list goes on but you get the idea. There may be Denver motorcycle shops that do this already. I have not been to many so I don't know but I think there are many ways to differentiate and do it without huge costs. Just some suggestions/opinions.

Then the question becomes, what next. If you implemented every suggestion I made, and every other dealership did the same, what differentiates you from then now? Don't know but interest to see who will get my business next year. (I have sold my PW80 and will be picking up a brand spanking new TTR125L)

[troythetroll]

What defines a store which keeps a loyal customer? Interesting question...having once been a loyal customer and then moved here to the land of "hose'em all down in pursuit of the almighty dollar".

So heres my list of why I stayed a loyal customer, even going so far as to bring my bike from Louisiana to Ohio to have them work on it.

Honesty. A good shop doesn't lie, and doesn't encourage an environment that condones it. Salesmen who hand out different prices based on whether or not you know them, for example. The price is the price, whatever it might be. The trade in value is the trade in value, whatever it might be, and shouldn't be dependant on who you know. The story should be the same from the cashier people to the salesmen to the owner...for whatever....because otherwise someone obviously knows less than someone else and you spend all your time searching for the one who knows the most...hopefully.

Consistency. Good shops don't swap out their people every other week. I swear, I used to walk into Fay Meyers in their old location about once a month and for the life of me, I could never find the last salesman I worked with. Ever. And when I found a new guy to talk to, the price for bikes ( including the "bend over fee's" ) would always be different than what the last guy had told me. ALWAYS. It was like either there was no set price, or they changed them every day based on how a sales manager felt. This particular behavior created my "don't buy a new bike off of Fay Meyers" rule because I figured if they didn't know what they wanted for a new bike, there were lots more important things they were incompetent to talk about as well.

Service. I think any good shop has to have a service department, and it has to be more than "johnny just graduated from high school and can change oil correctly...sometimes". Part of my interstate wanderings to go to my old shop was because they had a service manager who I knew, who was consistent and honest, and they had a mechanic who worked on my bike who knew what he was doing. He raced, we rode together, the guy had been doing it since high school, and while not a rocket scientist, and while not the cheapest in town, he did the job he was paid to do and he did it right...and then he lubed your chain with a spare minute he had and checked to be sure nothing else obviously bad was about to happen. You want a bad service experience? I'm the guy who bought a new red and white 929 and then got to watch while the service guy took it for its final shakedown ride right in front of the shop and dumped it.....$2000 worth of damage right on the spot. And the only good news was, I hadn't signed the paperwork yet...so I got the only other one they had...and then crossed my fingers that I would actually get it before they destroyed that one as well. Turns out it was 50F that day and Mr Service Genius didn't figure the tires would be cold....plus pretending you know how to ride anything when you actually don't doesn't help either.

Notice how I haven't mentioned price? And for a specific reason...if I want the best price in town...I go to the internet, surf, and order it. But that hoses down hard working local businessmen who are trying to make an honest buck running their shops. So...instead of buying that new PitBull rear stand for the trackbike, I head over to TFOG and pay them....obviously more than I would online, but I do it because I feel that any extra money I spend in developing a relationship with them is worth the care and service my bike receives beyond what any other shop in town has presented me with.

Turns out, I WILL pay more for someone who knows what they are doing, salesmen or otherwise. I paid more for bikes at that little local shop for 10years because they were fair and honest and had a service department who's specialty wasn't abusing other peoples property for fun...and I usually paid more than if I had wandered up to Columbus Ohio and dickered myself into a heart attack to save $300....

So...for some price might be a considerable that towers above all others...me...I want someone who actually cares that the job gets done right and then actually does do it right.

For the record, because of the problems apparent in the dealer network here in Denver, none of my machines in 7 years has ever been to a dealer here in the area....not once. Not for valve adjustments, not for tires, not for initial service, not for nuttin. Put your money where your mouth is folks, until people are willing to cut and run from bad dealerships on general principles, those bad dealerships ain't gonna change anytime soon.

( for the record, the guy who sold me a used bike at Fay Meyers back in Feb/2003 was still there last time I stopped in during this summer....so maybe things are a changin....then again....maybe not, I hear there are lots of stunta's in the service departments...dealer discount repairing their rides and all )

[R1ch]

What defines a store which keeps a loyal customer? Interesting question...having once been a loyal customer and then moved here to the land of "hose'em all down in pursuit of the almighty dollar".

So heres my list of why I stayed a loyal customer, even going so far as to bring my bike from Louisiana to Ohio to have them work on it.

Honesty. A good shop doesn't lie, and doesn't encourage an environment that condones it. Salesmen who hand out different prices based on whether or not you know them, for example. The price is the price, whatever it might be. The trade in value is the trade in value, whatever it might be, and shouldn't be dependant on who you know.)

On the price subject, it is debateable. If everyone gets the "everyday low price" then everyone could be getting the shaft and if you go to another place they may have just as good of service but you can negotiate your price. If I have a choice, I would prefer to negotiate a price, it means I could get a better deal. No negotiation is a negitive for me and I think to most people. Most salespeople want the flexability to negotiate, that way they can close the deal just by beating the price of a "everyday low no haggle price"

I do agree on good dealerships keep good employees. If they do the employee is better educated and understands the business better. Rotating people through only fustrates customers in my opinion.

[troythetroll]

Assuming that anything resembling "service" even exists at dealerships in this state is the first problem encountered. Saving $2 on some item yet using 4 hours of my saturday afternoon to wander around searching for that better price seems counter intuitive to me....more expensive isn't always more expensive...depending on how you value your time.

The fallacy around here is that it requires some super fantastic price to collect someones business because everything else is so awful its likely you'll never see them again...assuming they have half a brain and can use it.

My favorite here in Colorado has been the crating,shipping,documentation fee's which I charaterize as "bendover" fee's....never even heard of these silly things before until I came to Denver....then these weasel dealers tried to spend hours telling me how these fee's are charged by everybody...problem being, I'd already been purchasing new motorcycles for 15 years and never had seen them before...

Doesn't matter...we all have ways of judging the people we do business with...for some its price, for some its convienence, for some its because they know someone there and like'em....whatever flips your lid I imagine.

[mra828]

R1ch - I like your ideas...

I'm still interested in what someone who owns/manages/does marketing for a dealership would define as their specific value proposition and what differentiates them from the dealer 20 miles down the street...

For example: Like them or not - I think Erico is/has been pretty well differentiated. First in the "used sportbike" niche, then moving to specialty brand (triumph, guzzi, ducati) new bikes...

geoff

[Anonymous]

( for the record, the guy who sold me a used bike at Fay Meyers back in Feb/2003 was still there last time I stopped in during this summer....so maybe things are a changin....then again....maybe not, I hear there are lots of stunta's in the service departments...dealer discount repairing their rides and all )

Was it Zach? Just curious. He actually impressed me recently. The last time I bought a bike from him was like 4 years ago, and he was pretty new on the job. I was in there last month for the Race Night thing they did, and he remembered me. I'm sure he didn't make a whole lot on the bike he did sell me, so it was definitely cool for him to recognize me after that long. He's also ass't sales manager now, which I think is a very good move on Fay's part.

My favorite here in Colorado has been the crating,shipping,documentation fee's which I charaterize as "bendover" fee's....never even heard of these silly things before until I came to Denver....then these weasel dealers tried to spend hours telling me how these fee's are charged by everybody...problem being, I'd already been purchasing new motorcycles for 15 years and never had seen them before...

Well, not to mention fees like that are reimbursed by the manufacturer to the dealer. They try to charge people that bogus crap (kinda like the "rust coating" car dealers used to try and upsell) because suckers will pay. It'd be nice to see a dealership just say "this is the price, we don't charge BS, may not be the absolute bottom dollar but we'll treat you fair and earn your repeat business through excellent service after the fact". Sounds too simple, doesn't it? That and remembering your customers months or years after you sell them something - BIG plus points for that one...

[Nick_Ninja]

My shop has had my bizness for 20 years + ------- My $$ go to them for a reason.

[firefghtr]

no i dont work there anymore wahoo

really you guys who are complaining are boring
tell somepeople who dont know

[itsme1738]

i just bought 2 dirt bikes from them
1 new 1 used i yhink i got a really good deal
waved all handling charges (350.00) plus
100.00 in free gear.....so far im happy

[Chris]

grand prix has some cool people and some jerks.

some sales guy there (named greg i think, not totaly shure, big guy with some facial hair is a total douch bag.

[firefghtr]

damn thats what every one says, he's a cool guy but when it comes to work yes hes all about making money... were im to laid back to care how much i make.

[Stark]

With all due respect, not sure why people are on TTT's case ... read through this thread and I thought his points made here were not only decent but well written. Plus, given that he's een buying bikes longer than some of the people in this thread have been alive, perhaps a second read and a listen are in order.

Sales in anything vehicle-related is really going to be based on the quality of salesperson and their ability to mesh with the customer. Back about hmm, 9 years ago I bought my first new car from the Subaru dealership on Broadway. The guy who sold it to me was amazing -- no detactable bullshit, gave me more than a fair deal on my car, line itemed all the charges and was honest about it, and wasn't pushy at all. When my wife at the time totalled it 4 months later that salesman got my business again, and 5 years later when I replaced that car.

I've dealt with the sales and service department at the Grand Prix off of County Line ... as opposed to Fay, every time I go to Grand Prix's parts people they are the same people, they know my bike as well or better than I do, and if it's not in stock it's there in a timely fashion and I get a call the day it arrives. Service department there the 2 times I've been has been professional albeit a bit on the expensive side, but as someone was saying above, sometimes spending 4 hours shopping for a deal costs more if you value your time than over-paying a bit for a service.

My 2 cents,

-Rich