D200 SHOCKER (spoiler)

[jplracing]

Amazing that Honda can't read the fucking rule book!

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=31709

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Believe me, they can, they just thought they could sneak this one through. Sad, because now I'm not even interested in watching the race that Steve recorded. Man, how f$cked-up is this? Now, instead of the 200 being the premiere AMA race of the open class with all the big names from the big teams, it's a minibike race of no-names, riding for semi-no-name teams, cheating for victory. Sad, just sad.

I think NASCRAP ownership of the AMA will hopefully fix this, and bring the Superbikes back as the 200. For them, it'd be like running the Busch cars in the Daytona 500.....not gonna happen.

Well, this news prevents me from blocking out a couple hours to watch the minibike race at least. Gonna watch the SBK race instead.


P.S. Um, might have wanted to title this :spoiler, with no mention of the "winner".

[dirkterrell]

I think NASCRAP ownership of the AMA will hopefully fix this, and bring the Superbikes back as the 200.

+1

And I'd go even further and make Superbikes 750s again but that'll never happen...

Dirk

[lovinCO]

Hey! How about a spoiler alert next time??? I worked all weekend and haven't seen it yet.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

+1

And I'd go even further and make Superbikes 750s again but that'll never happen...

Dirk

Actually, it couldn't. It'd be just Suzuki (kinda like it is now! . I like the 1000's as Superbikes. I just think it's stupid to have the minibikes run the 200, and that they're planning on axeing the 1000cc Superstock class. Dumb, dumb, dumb....

I'm gonna write up a set of class structures, post it, and see what response I get here.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Hey! How about a spoiler alert next time??? I worked all weekend and haven't seen it yet.

+1

[jplracing]

sorry guys...it won't let me change the title

[Filo]

Well, here is a race day view:

The crank was clearly illegal. It was no mistake. You could see the difference between it and the other cranks next to it without even a little knowledge of the rules. They are probably going to go with the ambiguous rule defense. It is too bad - I really like Josh and it probably wasn't his call.

I went to the press conference and was impressed with what Edmonson had to say. He seemed like a straight forward guy. Hopefully the transition will be smooth. Many AMA workers were happy with the future.

I was talking to the tire guys and some top level team guys about the 1000cc superbike class. I am intentionally leaving out the names to protect the innocent. Both of them expressed concern about tire life on a 1000cc for a 200 race. We may see 3-4 pit stops on the 1000s.

The best race was supersport, followed by superstock. The 200 was OK, but only because it was an endurance fest and people would screw up a pit stop and pay dearly. I fell asleep during superbike. It was terrible.

[rybo]

fixed the title...

GO CHAZ!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Think I'm gonna boycott it until it's the Superbikes again. This is just stupid. If tires are a problem, throw a couple chicanes in there and/or use less of the banking, and/or mandatory pit stops every X number of laps. Tired of watching semi-no-names from semi-no-name-teams running what SHOULD be the premiere race. You know how far it's fallen when a 1200cc Beemer twin finishes 8th.......

I'll watch the MotoGP (and maybe the 250) race again, and watch the Superbikes. That's it. Daytona group, are you listening?

[dirkterrell]

Actually, it couldn't. It'd be just Suzuki (kinda like it is now! .

Well, if they were limited to 750cc, the manufacturers would make them, just like the early 80s when they made the switch from the big beasts.

Dirk

[Sortarican]

.... They are probably going to go with the ambiguous rule defense....

The rule says your can polish and harden the bearing surfaces on the crank.
So was the infraction just that they shaved the crank or did they also harden and polish beyond the bearing surfaces?

Wouldn't imagine polishing beyond the bearing surfaces really does much.
But how the hell do you harder a crank just at the bearing surface without also hardening the remainder of the crank?
Especially if it's heat treated....guess you could ballpeen harden a crank just at the bearing surface.... but why would you?

[rybo]

The rule says your can polish and harden the bearing surfaces on the crank.
So was the infraction just that they shaved the crank or did they also harden and polish beyond the bearing surfaces?

Wouldn't imagine polishing beyond the bearing surfaces really does much.
But how the hell do you harder a crank just at the bearing surface without also hardening the remainder of the crank?
Especially if it's heat treated....guess you could ballpeen harden a crank just at the bearing surface.... but why would you?

I know that polishing a crank beyond the bearing surfaces reduces windage losses, especially as the crank passes through oil.

They also removed material from the crank, making it lighter, so while there isn't really a HP gain by doing that there is some advantage in how quickly the bike gets to speed. There may also be some durability advantages.

End of the day they cheated and they knew it. They also got caught which I think is a a good thing. I like Hayes and I'm sad that they believed they needed to cheat to have a chance at winning.

s

[Kristian]

... You know how far it's fallen when a 1200cc Beemer twin finishes 8th......

Hey, Hey, two BMW's finished, 5th and 6th after the Hayes DQ.

[hcr25]

The 200 wont be big bikes until dunlop makes a tire that wont blow up there.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I know that polishing a crank beyond the bearing surfaces reduces windage losses, especially as the crank passes through oil.
Very true. It can mean a big difference at the RPM they're turning. In fact, Indy and F1 cars, and probably Le Mans prototypes run dry sump engines with scavenge pumps to eliminate the aerodynamic drag of the crank throws, and it helps de-foam the oil, and eliminate the oily mist in the crankcases.

They also removed material from the crank, making it lighter, so while there isn't really a HP gain by doing that there is some advantage in how quickly the bike gets to speed. There may also be some durability advantages.
The Dynojet "dynos" people are using now are NOT true dynamometers, they're ACCELLEROMETERS, because you're accellerating a weighted drum and calculating torque from the change in speed vs time. So, by having less revolving mass to accellerate, on the dynojet and in the real world, there is a big advantage. Crank weight and/or MOI will NOT affect a true (i.e. eddy current) dyno, because it measure torque directly at various rpm.

End of the day they cheated and they knew it. They also got caught which I think is a a good thing. I like Hayes and I'm sad that they believed they needed to cheat to have a chance at winning.
It is so visibly obvious they couldn't have possibly thought they could get away with this. The only thing I can think of is that they never figured finishing high enough up the order to face the mandatory tear-down, let alone 1st place! Scott, how far down the order do they tear-down the engines? Top 3? Top 10? Can't remember....

s

Yes, the Yosh Boys rocked the house....again!

[Filo]

It is so visibly obvious they couldn't have possibly thought they could get away with this. The only thing I can think of is that they never figured finishing high enough up the order to face the mandatory tear-down, let alone 1st place! Scott, how far down the order do they tear-down the engines? Top 3? Top 10? Can't remember....

Frank,

The three top bikes are impounded. At that time they decide what they are going to look at. The head of tech decides what he is interested in for that day. Sometimes they don't look at anything. It is not an automatic tear down. In supersport it was cams and throttle bodies only. There is a new head of tech this year (Jim Rashid) and he is taking the job more seriously than the previous guys. Also, there is/was a lot of politics in the tech exams, such that there wasn't any enforcement when something was caught. For this reason, there is a lot of cheating on a lot of teams. Not to take anything away from Chaz & Rapp, but their bikes probably are illegal too. Hopefully the new tech guy will have the support to actually enforce the rules. Don't forget - the case is under appeal. Last years airbox re-routing fiasco was overturned on appeal. Was it because the manufacturer was on the board? Who knows. Will this one be overturned? I hope not. I feel bad for Josh, but if you aren't going to enforce the rules, why write them in the first place?

[jplracing]

Don't know if you saw the interview with Roger Edmonsen (the guy who is part of the new ownership group) but they basically said that the premier class (superbikes) need to be in the 200.

I think the interview is still on Speedtv.com.

In terms of Mike's comments about dunlops exploding....maybe it will force them to figure it out, its not like they don't have the resources...or we may end up seeing a spec tire like a lot of other racing series...who knows, my guess is that superbikes will be running the 200 in 2009 with a spec tire...only time will tell

[pilot]

And a quote from Josh during a post race interview:

"On the racetrack, I still believe I have the best motorcycle out there. The only bike that was able to pass me on the straightaway that I saw was a Honda, today. So I was pretty fortunate in that. The bike's just working really good. Hopefully I'm going to make these boys work all year."

March 8, 2008; Superbikeplanet.com, Susan Hass

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Mar/e/n080308z.htm

[Scer]

Not my best claim to fame but if you still have the D200 recorded. Look at the background during the Hayes winner circle interview...you might see a familiar face. =D

look on lookas