WTF is AMA Thinkin, Possibly No More 1000cc Class.

[Matty]

Originally Posted by SuperbikePlanet.com
Daytona MotorSports Group Visits California
by dean adams
Tuesday, April 15, 2008

A group of Daytona Motorsports Group execs visited all four of the Japanese OEMs last week to discuss their plans for the 2009 AMA Superbike series and receive feedback on what the OEMs would like to see next season. CEO Roger Edmondson and his group visited Suzuki and Yamaha last Wednesday, and Kawasaki and Honda on Thursday.

The current plan is for the AMA Superbike weekend to undergo major changes. While Edmondson has repeatedly said that there won't be any kind of firm format to the series until later this week at Barber (after he meets again with the OEMs) the current plan seems to consist of a 600 Superbike class which would incorporate several different machine-types and also the MotoST series. Beyond those two classes, Edmondson seems open to discussion, but cautions that he currently has no interest in 600 Supersport or the out-going AMA Superstock class. Moreover, the series in 2008 may include a spec tire rule for all classes and also a spec fuel.

(The latter which should prove interesting on the tire front as Dunlop just signed up all the factory teams through 2009.)

"We went to see them in spite of there being other manufacturers in our sport of roadracing. Those four companies have from one degree or another supported the entirety of motorcycle racing, including Supercross and Motocross, in this country. I thought that they should be consulted. I felt that we should not go in there to tell them anything, only to answer questions and uncover what their fears and concerns were and at the same time learn what is important to them. I'm going to give an example, before we ever got there we had one of them (who looked) at our NASCAR genes and wondered if we were going to make them put carburetors on their bikes because there are carburetors on NASCAR cars. That made me realize that the level of anxiety was a lot higher than I thought."

"We went to visit Suzuki and Yamaha on Wednesday, and Kawasaki and Honda on Thursday. Each meeting I opened by thanking for gathering the group, making it clear that we were seeking a collegial relationship, not a continuation of the adversarial or difficult relationships of the past. And while we had a vision, we didn't want to jump out and present our vision without having an opportunity to temper it or modify it based on what they had to say."

Edmondson would not confirm that it happened at Suzuki, but it is widely known that his first stop, at Suzuki, his presentation and vision for the series were not received enthusiastically, to say the least.

"I felt that at three of the four companies their management people should be proud of the professionals running their race department. Obviously, that does not mean that they agreed with everything that we said. It means that we had a good, solid exchange of views that can only lead to better understanding of each others positions. Three of them made an effort to give us advice and where appropriate share concerns. And one didn't. One simply ... went off. Behavior of one of the four was, in my opinion, shameful."

He continued, "I made it clear that we are not in the motorcycle business. We're in the entertainment business, but that our businesses are inextricably joined at the hip. And what's good for them is good for us and vice-versa. Remember the context. We went there to seek counsel and guidance. We made it clear that our decisions would be taken after we had meetings with all of the companies. And for one of them to be on the phone calling the others before we were even out of the parking lot was totally out of line. That put paid to any perception that particular group of motorsport execs had any interest in working with us. They were clearly lining up against us, and that's not beneficial in the long term."

Regarding the content of the meetings Edmondson commented: "I didn't go there to lie or duck any questions. I was very honest. They asked what our plans were at this time were. I told them that we had no plans at this time to run Superstock next year, as it is canceled. And we had no plans at this time for 600 Supersport. However, I hope everyone keeps in mind the context—we're still finalizing our program at this time. We are making plans, not that we had a solid plan in place before we walked in there."

"At the moment we see two bookend classes and we will develop the rest," Edmondson said. "We will include the MotoST series and a new Superbike category using middleweight performance equipment with a wide variety of configurations. At one of the manufacturers there was a lot of consternation when we said this."

Three of the four manufacturers he spoke with want a 1000cc platform in the '09 series, Edmondson said, but one didn't seem to feel a 1000cc class was crucial. Whether the 2009 Superbike series will include a 1000cc Superbike class remains as yet unknown.

Based on the content of the meetings that Edmondson and his group had with the OEMs, he is taking a very close look at the proposed 2009 Superbike rules. At the same time he clarified that he wasn't committing to the proposed 2009 Superbike rules either.

Hmmmmmm........

[Pacman]

I call bullshit

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Wow...talk about stirring the pot.

[ChrisCBX]

Most of us saw this coming..............

"I made it clear that we are not in the motorcycle business. We're in the entertainment business"

Some critics have compared the modern NASCAR cup racing to the WWE. The old IROC series is no longer needed since Spring Cup is basically becoming one big IROC series. AMA superbike racing appears to be in for major rule changes sooner rather than later. Changes that may head it into the same direction.

I continue to hope that this new ownership group, with their marketing abilities, will build awareness of motorcycle road racing and build interest in sport bikes. All we can do is wait and see what happens. I can't believe that manufacturers will continue to have direct factory supported teams though. Time will tell.

[SupermotoMJ]

hmm..

[lovinCO]

Hmmmm indeed.

MotoST is a twins class? I'm not up on this, but like the idea--like the old Pro Thunder class. Is this actively running with AMA now?

[kixx]

That's crap. The AMA Superbike (and superstock) class will have much more parity in 2009 anyway if Spies goes to MotoGP and Mladin retires. DMG are very short-sighted.

Oh, and God forbid that there are "adversarial" relationships in motorcycle racing.

What a bunch of dips#its. Good for Suzuki for not buying into their bs.

[Jayock]

Yes, MotoST is a twins endurance class.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

If the AMA "Superbike class TRULY is relegated to 600cc, I'll simply boycott the series and concentrate on MotoGP and WSB, and MAYBE catch the "Literbike" class. I was afraid of this. Fucking idiots. The LAST thing we want is a NASCRAP/pro-wresteling-style motorcycle series. I had high hopes for this merger, but it seems the worst has come to pass. when will these dumbasses learn that the demographic for sportbike riders is NOT the same as they're used to? For starters, ONE rider in the AMA SBK series has more teeth than the ENTIRE NASCRAP field.....

[Lel]

If the AMA "Superbike class TRULY is relegated to 600cc, I'll simply boycott the series and concentrate on MotoGP and WSB, and MAYBE catch the "Literbike" class. I was afraid of this. Fucking idiots. The LAST thing we want is a NASCRAP/pro-wresteling-style motorcycle series. I had high hopes for this merger, but it seems the worst has come to pass. when will these dumbasses learn that the demographic for sportbike riders is NOT the same as they're used to? For starters, ONE rider in the AMA SBK series has more teeth than the ENTIRE NASCRAP field.....

for a very pro american sig, pretty anti american racing.

NASCAR is huge not only in the US but also in Europe. Granted they also love the road course stuff, that for some reason has never caught on like it did in Europe. Do I enjoy NASCAR, no... do i RESPECT NASCAR, absolutely. Something that can pack the stands, have the following it does and rake in the amount of money that it does. Abso-freaking-lutely... and it IS motorsport racing. Someone who is a fan of one form of racing is easily moved to another form of racing.

I dont agree that generalizing the NASCAR crowed as toothless hillbillies is a fair stereo type. If you have ever listened to or watched some of the interviews from some of the drivers, team managers, owners; I am quite impressed. Most of them can speak twice as well as half the people that make an AMA podium. They have the experience in the public eye that road racers dont. The toothless hillbillies are what stand out the same way I wouldnt want you to stand out as a Sportbike Race fan. '1000's cc's blah blah blah'

Watch WSS, or AMA SS, Formula X, 250's, or even MotoGP. Not a single class that is a 'liter bike' and it is some of the most fun and entertaining races to watch, big deal that they are on 1000's... most of the 1000 races (with the exception of WSB) after lap 3 EVERYONE in the field falls into position and the race is over.

Honestly Superstock is a joke, and it should have been done away with this year. Most the guys out of the top 10 are running cams, crank work, rods etc anyways, they are on slicks already, the only real thing that changes is wheels, calipers and forks.

Do I agree calling the 600 class 'superbike?' no... i think it should be designated BOTH 1000 Superbike and 600 Superbike, not this fx, ssport, sb, sstock bs. I am disapointed in seeing 600 supersport go away, that is a great class for the privateer to ride in though.

I dont think DMG has it nailed by any means, but they are moving in a better direction then the AMA was before. I am not a fan of the power to weight, or ECU exchange stuff. However the tires, and even maybe the fuel is not a half bad option. What sucks is Dunlop will most likely get the contract even though Pirelli has been doing so well with the american market lately, and their tires are nearly as good (i think the pirelli front kills the dunlop front, but they still have some work to do on the rear)

ehh just my thought, I havent watched ama superbike lately since it seems boring, but supersport is a blast to watch! Anything that can get motorcycle racing as popular as it is in Europe here in the US is fine by me.

lel

[Clarkie]

Most the guys out of the top 10 are running cams, crank work, rods etc anyways, they are on slicks already, the only real thing that changes is wheels, calipers and forks.

I didnt know Faster had any riders in AMA Superstock this year

Sorry Jason, couldnt help it, especially after talking with a couple of ex-MRA racer/champions

[Lel]

I didnt know Faster had any riders in AMA Superstock this year

Sorry Jason, couldnt help it, especially after talking with a couple of ex-MRA racer/champions

lol

[Scer]

What sucks is Dunlop will most likely get the contract even though Pirelli has been doing so well with the american market lately, and their tires are nearly as good (i think the pirelli front kills the dunlop front, but they still have some work to do on the rear)

Pirelli has as much of a chance of being the spec tire that Dunlop does. Granted that Dunlop has won all the AMA championship for the last 20..thousand years, but when it all comes down to it, money is the item that shines more than trophies.

As long as the tire is one that is all around safe for the riders than that is what is counted most and then organizational monetary gain comes into play. Just like the rubber choice came into the making for NASCAR, (between hoosiers and goodyear) I am sure it will with AMA.

HOWEVER, if you want to really make it something exciting for the riders and teams then you have to look at the performance. Brit superbikes new spec tires are slowing the pace down from what they were last year among other things...

Time will tell.

play on, playas

[Clarkie]

There is also an opprotunity that each class could have it's own spec tire, right now Moto-ST is a Pirelli/Sunoco class, the 1000 class could easily be a Dunlop/VP class, I guess it's how you look at the wording of the press release

[JustSomeDude]

Update....

April 18, 2008

Chris Martin

The Daytona Motorsports Group laid out its vision for the future of AMA Superbike racing, and as expected, it’s a significant shift from the status quo.


It was noted following the original DMG press conference at Daytona that while Roger Edmondson promised that the Superbike class would return to the Daytona 200 in 2009 he never specified in exactly what form. That has now been detailed.


The newly-dubbed premier class, ‘Daytona Superbikes,’ will somewhat resemble the current middleweight-based Formula Xtreme class in terms of engine configuration mix while ranking closer to Supersport in terms of allowable modifications -- with some major additions, including single tire and fuel suppliers, targeted and specified power-to-weight ratio (rider included), regular ECU exchanges, and the use of ‘homologated, available, and affordable aftermarket components only.’


The new class is being formulated to maximize both its competitiveness and manufacturer participation with rules designed to create parity for twins, triples, and fours (ten brands were specifically mentioned as having eligible machinery at the present -- Aprilia, BMW, Buell, Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, KTM, Suzuki, Triumph, and Yamaha).


The Daytona Superbike class will run a race on Saturday and Sunday of each weekend.


Sitting alongside the Daytona Superbikes is the LiterBike class (looking to be similar to the pre-DMG proposed ’09 Superbike rules with the addition of spec tires and specified maximum and minimum levels of participation to remain eligible), Moto-ST (with three twin-based classes running at once), and a fourth ‘specialty class’ such as the Red Bull Rookies Cup.


Additional details will be forthcoming but it is already clear that DMG is making good on their promise to push the series forward in a new direction.

http://www.amasuperbike.com/article.php?UI...20&aid=11382

[Matty]

Fuck it i say bring back the 750 class....

wow... could you imagine if Honda made a CBR 750rr ????

[dirkterrell]

wow... could you imagine if Honda made a CBR 750rr ????

What we need is a VFR 750R (aka RC30/RC45).

Dirk

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

for a very pro american sig, pretty anti american racing.
I'm VERY pro AMERICAN racing. Have been for over 25 years. I just don't want the existing AMA structure to devolve into the "entertainment spectacle" (as opposed to racing) that is NASCRAP.

NASCAR is huge not only in the US but also in Europe. Granted they also love the road course stuff, that for some reason has never caught on like it did in Europe. Do I enjoy NASCAR, no... do i RESPECT NASCAR, absolutely. Something that can pack the stands, have the following it does and rake in the amount of money that it does. Abso-freaking-lutely... and it IS motorsport racing. Someone who is a fan of one form of racing is easily moved to another form of racing.
NASCRAP huge in Europe? That's a real new one on me. I know F1 (which I also follow) and MotoGP is huge, but NASCRAP? Where, pray tell did you find this tidbit. I'd like to see it. And, I do NOT believe your "Someone who is a fan of one form of racing is easily moved to another form of racing" statement at all. You have obviously never talked to hard-core NASCRAP fans. Hell, they hate Toyota coming into the 'Cup, they can't stand open-wheel racing in general unless it's the Sprints or midgets, don't watch sprts car racing, and don't even like it when the 'Cup cars race at the Glen or at Sears point. The demographics are totally different, and will NOT migrate. If they would, they already would HAVE.

I dont agree that generalizing the NASCAR crowed as toothless hillbillies is a fair stereo type. If you have ever listened to or watched some of the interviews from some of the drivers, team managers, owners; I am quite impressed. Most of them can speak twice as well as half the people that make an AMA podium. They have the experience in the public eye that road racers dont. The toothless hillbillies are what stand out the same way I wouldnt want you to stand out as a Sportbike Race fan. '1000's cc's blah blah blah'
I realize the latest crop are pretty well groomed, especially compared to yesteryear, but it's still totally seen as a redneck racing series, like it or not. Just look at the stands. Just because they can pack 'em in (like pro wrestling) doesn't meant that's the demographic dictating the racing in AMA.

Watch WSS, or AMA SS, Formula X, 250's, or even MotoGP. Not a single class that is a 'liter bike' and it is some of the most fun and entertaining races to watch, big deal that they are on 1000's... most of the 1000 races (with the exception of WSB) after lap 3 EVERYONE in the field falls into position and the race is over.
MotoGP WAS literbikes until this year. WSB superbikes are 1000cc, so are AMA and British, and European SBK. The fast guys are ALWAYS going to run away from the slow guys.

Honestly Superstock is a joke, and it should have been done away with this year. Most the guys out of the top 10 are running cams, crank work, rods etc anyways, they are on slicks already, the only real thing that changes is wheels, calipers and forks.
I LIKE 1000cc SStock racing. It's stuff more like the avarage Joe could run. Do I think it could be improved to level the playing field? Certainly. For instance, make every team that wants to run sither "SStock" class list with the AMA how many bikes they'll need. The AMA then buys the total number from the factories. These are then sealed from the head down, with degreeing of the STOCK cams and replacement of the clutch basket the only options for engine work. These are then doled out via lottery, so the factories couldn't built "spec" engines from culled production parts. Now, it's down to set-up, and rider skill. Simple, yes?

Do I agree calling the 600 class 'superbike?' no... i think it should be designated BOTH 1000 Superbike and 600 Superbike, not this fx, ssport, sb, sstock bs. I am disapointed in seeing 600 supersport go away, that is a great class for the privateer to ride in though.
I agree, I think we need 1000cc SBK and 600cc SBK, and 1000cc SStock and 600cc SStock classes, as outlined above.

I dont think DMG has it nailed by any means, but they are moving in a better direction then the AMA was before. I am not a fan of the power to weight, or ECU exchange stuff. However the tires, and even maybe the fuel is not a half bad option. What sucks is Dunlop will most likely get the contract even though Pirelli has been doing so well with the american market lately, and their tires are nearly as good (i think the pirelli front kills the dunlop front, but they still have some work to do on the rear)
The lap times in WSB INCREASED by 2sec when they went to the spec tire. F that, no spec tires.

ehh just my thought, I havent watched ama superbike lately since it seems boring, but supersport is a blast to watch! Anything that can get motorcycle racing as popular as it is in Europe here in the US is fine by me.
It's boring because the OTHER teams and riders need to step up their game to run with the YOSH boys. It's not up to the winner to slow down for the losers.....

lel

Of note, I've not even watched the 200 since they went to the minibike class. I'll watch the SBK race, and the 1000cc SStock class (if they ever bother to air it), and that's it. And I know plenty of other, older, fans that feel the same way. Sad, as I've been a fan for many years. I stopped watching the Indy 500 for much the same reasons, after not missing it from when I was a kid until the CART/Irl split. AMA, you listening?

[Ghost]

Fuck it i say bring back the 750 class....

wow... could you imagine if Honda made a CBR 750rr ????

CBR750RR FTW! I'm in. Honda, make me one...lighter than the CBR600RR, with 90% of the 1000's power. I'll have my deposit ready.

AMA can screw up a ham sandwhich. Look how they handle AMA dirt, why expect them not to mess up road racing?

MotoGP<pwns>WSB<pwns>AMA

[lovinCO]

Reading up on MotoST, it sounds like a fun series to race. But how is the DMG going to get spectators interested in a 6 hour endurance race?




Plus those bastards snubbed the MRA! The MotoST rules don't include the MRA on their approved license list.

[jsears1864]

"Daytona Superbikes"??????

that sounds retarded. just call it supersport and change the rules. it does sound like they think the only people that will watch are nascar fans.

[jsears1864]

Reading up on MotoST, it sounds like a fun series to race. But how is the DMG going to get spectators interested in a 6 hour endurance race?




Plus those bastards snubbed the MRA! The MotoST rules don't include the MRA on their approved license list.

i heard today that moto-st is owned by some nascar people anyway and that is why its being promoted. after the factories pull out and mountain dew, home depot, who-ever cancels its sponsorship after no tv ratings. ama will be back in 2 or 3 years.