Dealin wit tha Police!

[Nick_Ninja]

meltdown, yet another

[Devaclis]

It is good to vent every now and then. Just don't make it personal.

[whitebrad]

not trying to make it personal... just in complete shock, that's all

blahgity fukin blah

maybe someday i'll be a fuckin knower


ha ha ha ha ha! just reread my original description... it's exactly what happened... should go back and explain it line by line...

reading comprehension is funny like that...

one man's there is another man's their

[highpsi03]

not trying to make it personal... just in complete shock, that's all

blahgity fukin blah

maybe someday i'll be a fuckin knower


ha ha ha ha ha! just reread my original description... it's exactly what happened... should go back and explain it line by line...

reading comprehension is funny like that...

one man's there is another man's their

Try that shift key every once in a while.

[CaneZach]

Nothing personal about it. I just found it funny that the first time the event was described, it sounded like any average ride on the interstate. He said the person ahead was "semi cell phone weaving" and the car next to him was speeding up and slowing down, which are both annoyances. Then he says the cars behind him were closing him in. The second time he describes it, the person in front is going from line to line and the car behind him is 3' off his bumper. Now he comes back and says it was the first way, which as I said, is an everyday event! Nobody here is measuring their e-dicks or anything. My e-dick is tucked away in my e-pants.

I simply found it odd that he described an average ride on the interstate as a danger zone and pointed out the discrepancies in his stories. Now, I can regularly admit that I'm automatically going to side with the cop when the event sounds like just another day in Colorado, then uses more inflammatory language and hyperbole to make the event seem way more dangerous than it was. Rather than respond to him again and go into what I really think I'll just leave it as is

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

I was coming home from work today and decided to take the route through downtown. I know where several hot spots are so went slow until I could see the area and make sure it was clear. A motorcycle cop was in a perfect area to where normal sitting cars and trucks wouldn't be able to see him, because of ramp guard fences. But since am a motorcycle enthusiast, I sit a little higher, so I was able to see him. I slowed down, to what must have been below the speed limit. I looked at him and shook my head. I shook my head because it made me sad. Sad someone was going to get a ticket and there was nothing I could do about. I wanted to pull over and wave to traffic to warn them. Warn them of the danger that lurked beyond their sight. But, alas, I couldn't.

The cop pointed at me and forcefully jerked his arm, pointing away from himself, apparently trying to tell me to speed up and get the fuck out of here. I wanted to give him a hug.

True story.

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

I can't imagine what it's like to be a policemen. To have to go to "work" and deal with political propaganda, mean and intolerable people, and probably have to worry about wife and kids and bills and other items that could everyone else's way. But, at the same time, the unfortunate thing about our lives and those put into office have in common is we all make mistakes. And, please don't confuse my saying "mistakes", as a police officer or a soon to be ticket holder (not a special event where you go and have fun) doing things that are beyond their control. That cop could have an automatic response to a situation. A response that has told him in the past is right. A response that has always worked and always made sense. So in general, why would he change?

But, remember, we are all human. And, in fact, it's this endless chase we conduct with ourselves (fellow humans) that has us spinning like a record baby, round like a record. Eh?

In short, there is no simple way to answer such a question because we are dealing with people's life time experiences and automatic responses. Reactions that they have developed for many years and we get to enjoy the end result. Unfortunately, we receive a ticket.

I side with ticket holders as such, I'm not a policemen.

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

Actually, here is a better thread title. "What inspired you to become a police officer, and has that changed?"

[FZRguy]

Damn CZ, you're either a cop or have way too much time on your hands. I'll do whatever it takes to avoid or get out of a box situation.

[whitebrad]

Damn CZ, you're either a cop or have way too much time on your hands. I'll do whatever it takes to avoid or get out of a box situation.

yeah, but you aren't a racer, apparently.

i guess they ride so f'n good they don't need to try to be proactive to prevent a dangerous situation...

seen it too many times... partner of mine has a whole head of dental implants because of the same situation, but he had to clip a car and go into a grassy ditch where he went over the bars and broke all of his teeth out..

shift keys suck. especially on this laptop... my regular puter got confickered the other day... stupid hackers

[CaneZach]

yeah, but you aren't a racer, apparently.

i guess they ride so f'n good they don't need to try to be proactive to prevent a dangerous situation...

seen it too many times... partner of mine has a whole head of dental implants because of the same situation, but he had to clip a car and go into a grassy ditch where he went over the bars and broke all of his teeth out..

shift keys suck. especially on this laptop... my regular puter got confickered the other day... stupid hackers

See, I was willing to just say my peace and let it lie, but now I feel like I'm being forced to respond:

First off, this whole BS "you aren't a racer, apparently... I guess they ride so f'in good they don't need to be proactive" and your "everybody should sign up for this guy's class because..." is all bullshit. One, all you're doing is creating a straw man argument. Two, they're deflection techniques to try to take the focus off of you. Three, not once did I ever say anything close to what you describe, such as there's no need to be proactive and I'm the best coach in the world. Rather than have a discussion, you got pissy and responded with BS.

Now, onto the matter at hand, which is your citation. You don't like to be boxed in, and I get that. I don't either! The problem I have, as I've said all along, is that your first description is simple: "doing about 62 in a 55" "cage in front of me doing that semi swerve cellphone action" "behind me they are closing me in". As I pointed out, it all seems like a normal day in Colorado. Now when you describe it a second time, the car in front of you is going lane to lane and the cars behind you are literally 3' off your bumper. Lane to lane or line to line, however you described it, is not a "semi weave". The lanes on the interstate are 12'6", so that's a full-on weave if they're going from center line to shoulder. Instead, you use the minimizing word "semi" to describe it.

When you're talking about the cars behind you, you say they're closing you in at first. Then the second time you describe it, you're saying that they're literally "3 ft behind me riding my ass like a fucking horse". There's a huge difference between someone who is closing me in and someone who is right on top of me. I find it hard to believe they were anywhere close to you. Why? Because if they were as close to you as you described, you would have said so during your first post where you were trying to defend your actions. Pointing out that someone posed a clear and present threat makes your actions more understandable. Instead, you initially simply described them as "closing you in". If someone is right on my ass, the very first time I describe their actions, I'm saying they're RIGHT ON MY ASS!!! I'm not saying, "They were closing me in". Human nature tends to paint ourselves in the best possible light and when we try to defend actions or response to a certain situation, we try to maximize others' actions that caused us to react a certain way and minimize our own actions during the event. In this case, you don't maximize their actions (weaving, following too closely, etc.) until the second time you describe it! If it really happened the way you described it in your response to me, you would've described it that way the first time.

As to your Daddy's teachings: I don't care how much time, training, or experience your daddy has when the subject is you. Your dad may be or may have been a helluva rider, but for all I know, he could have been a terrible teacher. Frankly, I don't know. There are plenty of people who know astral physics and can't teach a math class to first-graders, and there are plenty of guys who can ride their asses off but couldn't teach someone how to even throw a leg over the bike. You describing your father's experience doesn't mean crap when it comes to YOUR experience. That's like me saying, "Hey, Valentino Rossi is my best friend!" He's arguably the best rider in the world, but that doesn't mean I know how to ride worth a damn. You want to beat your chest about his 41 years of experience and your 12 years of this and 19 years of that? It doesn't impress anyone on here and it doesn't come anywhere close to telling us about your abilities! Like I've already said, I know people who say they have 15-years of experience, but all that means is they've ridden for 15 years. When you look at the time they've spent in the saddle, you would find that they log as many miles in one year as some people clock on a weekend! They talk about their years, but in reality, they're as experienced as most rookie riders. If they had said they logged 15K miles last year, that would quantify their experience. If they'd said they took an MSF rider course or went through Levels I and II of Keith Code's school, that would give an idea as to their abilities. Instead, all you said was "I've got 12 years of this and 19 years of that and my daddy has 41 years" Each of us on here has probably ridden with someone who has described their experience the same way you did, but when it comes time to ride, they can't ride very well at all. All your bragging about your years of crash-free and ticket-free riding is an attempt to make yourself a better rider than you really are. It's no different than the guy that gets stopped for speeding and the his argument isn't that he wasn't speeding, it's that he hasn't gotten a ticket in twenty years. As every single person on here will tell you, and you would probably admit it too (not to me, but probably to yourself), just because you've had ten years of ticket-free riding doesn't make you a good or even a safe rider. It simply means you haven't been caught or ticketed. The average drunk driver has driven intoxicated at least ten times before they get their first DUI. Now think about how many times you've sped and never been caught. Want to rethink your "my 12 years of blah blah blah experience" line again?

FZRguy, to answer your question, yes, I'm a ten year cop. I've been a motor officer in the past, but I always make it a point to be a little more lenient to fellow riders, as long as they were cooperative and courteous. Since I ride, I understand the challenges and dangers we face, which is why I could understand someone not wanting to get boxed in. The main issue I have, aside from everything I've described, is the whole "fucking law up my ass, fucking cops enforce blah blah blah, I wasn't the fastest one on the highway" bullshit. People carry this attitude with them and they wonder why they get tickets all the time... but it's always the cop's fault.

So, with that all said, flame away.

[Zach929rr]

I daresay that was a well thought out response.

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

I daresay that was a well thought out response.

no, you may not

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

CaneZach, I think people are just mad at the entire system. It's hard to say why. But, ultimately, how do you feel about it? You are more part of the system than we are, in a manner of speaking.

[Cars-R-Coffins]

The cop pointed at me and forcefully jerked his arm, pointing away from himself, apparently trying to tell me to speed up and get the fuck out of here. I wanted to give him a hug.

True story.

If the officer's genuine intention was to slow traffic down he would not have cared that you were going under the speed limit (as long as you were not holding up traffic) but unfortunately he, or his bosses (whatever), was more concerned with catching someone speeding. As the economy slows I'll bet speeding and traffic ticket numbers are on the rise. It's a big $$$ generator for whatever city he/she works for, with the possibility of decreasing the number of accidents only a byproduct. Sad

[Nick_Ninja]

CaneZach, I think people are just mad at the entire system. It's hard to say why. But, ultimately, how do you feel about it? You are more part of the system than we are, in a manner of speaking.

Maybe this will give you a clue:

http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forum...&postcount=135

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

If the officer's genuine intention was to slow traffic down he would not have cared that you were going under the speed limit (as long as you were not holding up traffic) but unfortunately he, or his bosses (whatever), was more concerned with catching someone speeding. As the economy slows I'll bet speeding and traffic ticket numbers are on the rise. It's a big $$$ generator for whatever city he/she works for, with the possibility of decreasing the number of accidents only a byproduct. Sad

It will always be a mystery. I wish I could ask him. He seemed so passionate.

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

Maybe this will give you a clue:

http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forum...&postcount=135

negative

[FZRguy]

I think the motoring public is fed-up with revenue tickets. When it comes to traffic enforcement, I want the police to ticket those that pose a danger to the rest of us, i.e. drunk or drugged motorists, road rage drivers, aggressive drivers, red light runners, etc. Not so much those traveling 10-15 over on a four lane divided highway with a speed limit set for RV driving tourists. I’m sure that CZ will have a perspective on this.

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

I think the motoring public is fed-up with revenue tickets. When it comes to traffic enforcement, I want the police to ticket those that pose a danger to the rest of us, i.e. drunk or drugged motorists, road rage drivers, aggressive drivers, red light runners, etc. Not so much those traveling 10-15 over on a four lane divided highway with a speed limit set for out of state RV driving tourists. I’m sure that CZ will have a perspective on this.

I just think it would be smarter to ask the questions and hear true response rather than accuse and slander. Then we can understand the situation then perhaps relate on their level and maybe be safer (i doubt it), or at least approach the police officer on different terms.

[Nick_Ninja]

I just think it would be smarter to ask the questions and hear true response rather than accuse and slander. Then we can understand the situation then perhaps relate on their level and maybe be safer (i doubt it), or at least approach the police officer on different terms.

That will not change a thing.

[LiQuIdAiR=OTB=]

That will not change a thing.

my ultimate goal, which now won't be met because I'm voicing it, is to see if even police officers believe in what they do. And if not, then why do they play a role? When the hell do we stand up for ourselves?

It's kinda funny, at my job I ran into a similar situation. We were having problems with one of the co-owners that was basically bringing the company down. Everyone knew it. Everyone hated coming to work because of this person. Even the other owners knew they had to do something. I asked a manager why he didn't stand up for himself and make a difference. And why we didn't do the same. And I received the same answer you said, "it's not going to change a thing".

Well, thankfully they did something about it but that's besides the point. The idea from all this is that we at a very basic level stop giving a shit about our lives. And now all we do is complain. We blame! We make matters worse because we insist on making matters worse because we're anger. And, we want (in this case) police to know it.

It's insanity. By definition.

[Ceez]

THIS is how a debate should be done, valid points on all parts!

[CaneZach]

To answer your question, first and foremost I have to preface it by saying my primary responsibility is NOT traffic enforcement. I work in a specialty unit, so my time on the road is minimal.

With that said, I, as well as some officers, believe the speed limit is entirely too low in some areas. For those of you familiar with Woodland Park, I think the roadway between the Springs and Woodland should be a 65 zone once you get out of the pass. I don't have a problem with the pass being 45, but the rest of the roadway is pretty much wide open and I think the current 55 MPH limit is too low. The problem though is that even at 55, you'll see let's say 50% of the motorists traveling between 55 and 60, another 25% between 60 and 65, another 20% between 65 and 75, and 5% above 75. If you were to raise the speed limit to 65, you would see the same percentages, but the speeds would be increased. Here in the Springs, the speed limit on the Interstate in town was set at 55MPH. You would routinely see people traveling between 70 and 75. A few months ago, they raised it up to 65. Now those same people that were doing 70-75 in a 55 are doing 80. As the speed limit increases, people's actual speeds increases as well. They have this "I need to get there right NOW!!!" mentality that forces them to travel faster than everyone else.

As far as generating revenue is concerned, nobody likes it. Not the violator, not the officer, not the supervisor, not the agency's command staff, NOBODY!!! We'll all come up with a smartass answer whenever we hear, "Don't you have more important things to do than pull me over for (insert violation here)?" Truth is, we would much rather be finding drugs, or arresting murderers, or preventing crimes, but that isn't possible all the time since police work is largely reactive, so prevention isn't entirely possible. I hated supervisors that were strictly ticket counters. True story: I hauled in multiple 100+ pound drug seizures, several wanted felons, filed more felony cases than anyone else on my team, but because I didn't write enough seatbelt tickets, the supervisor had a problem with me (yes, there are supervisors like that). All he cared about was how many tickets I wrote and how many drunks I'd arrested. I was in the top 100 of DUI arrests in the State, filed twice as many felonies as the second-closest officer, took hundreds of pounds of drugs off the streets, but I wasn't as "good" as the guy who did nothing but write 10 tickets a night and arrest 5 drunks a week. He was a worm of a man who was an ineffective, useless supervisor who is and was despised wherever he went because he failed to take care of his officers, but part of that problem was the commanders above him. He had to answer to a captain, who had to answer to someone else, who had to answer... well, you get the point. And someone at the very top wanted better numbers, so that ball of crap began rolling downhill and hit every part of the chain of command on down. Hence, the average street cop is writing more tickets. As far as generating revenue though, Troopers issue citations and the money goes back to the State's general fund. 97% of the general fund goes to things OTHER than the State Patrol, such as Higher Ed., Public Health, etc., so when a Trooper issues a citation, he isn't generating revenue for his agency. I would venture to say most cities and counties work the same way, but I'm not sure.

At the same time, traffic enforcement is important. There are some people who think they should be able to go down the road at 110 MPH, drunk out of their minds and not be stopped (Nick, I'm looking right at you), but I disagree. I don't want my kids out there with someone like that on the road. Crashes are the number one killer of people between 16 and 25. Traffic is also a great way to inderdict criminals. I can't tell you how many pounds of drugs I've taken off the street by patrolling. Same goes for wanted felons, drunk/drugged drivers, guns, etc. The way to get that stuff off the streets is to stop the car. If you're not making the stops, you're going to miss all that stuff.

When I worked the road, aside from narcotics and criminal interdiction (which I was pretty good at, if I do say so myself), I would look for more aggressive violators to stop. I wanted the red light/stop sign runners. I wanted the tailgaters. I wanted the aggressive drivers who thought the road was theirs. I wanted the people who couldn't keep their speeds in check, and by check I meant 15 or more over. That speed was also dependent on the area. 10 over on a straightaway is a lot different than 10 over on a twisty, mountain road. 10 over on the interstate usually doesn't even get my attention. 10 over in a construction zone gets you stopped and cited. Everything depends on the circumstances.

Ultimately, everyone is upset at the system. The officer wants to catch more egregious violators/criminals/etc., the public doesn't want to get stopped, the commanders wish they didn't have to answer to the city council/county commisioners, and the courts would be happier if they didn't have so many tickets to take care of. Unfortunately, it's one big vicious circle, but we as police officers can only stop you if you're breaking the law. If you're doing 20 over the limit and a cop catches you, chances are you're getting stopped and ticketed. If you're trying to beat the light at an intersection and you have to rationalize it to yourself (you know, the whole "it wasn't red, it was orange" comment), then chances are you were wrong to begin with. If you roll through a stop sign, expect to get stopped. If you're an asshole when you drive, expect a summons for reckless driving. If you go out and drink, expect a DUI if you get behind the wheel. It's like a game. You're part of a team and we're the referees/umpires. You do something against the rules, we throw the flag.

I have to also say, my views are not necessarily shared by others. Just like anywhere else you go, there are some people who are just assholes. To them, the letter of the law is more important than the spirit of the law. To me, the law's intent was more important. The law is there to prevent one person from infringing upon the rights,safety,health, livelihood, etc. of others. As far as I'm concerned, there's some gray area in speeding. To me, the speed limit, although I may have considered it low in certain areas, was designed to keep people safe, so I enforced it. Personally, I think the speed limit could be increased, but most drivers out there aren't good enough to allow that to happen. I'm all for mandatory driver's license retests. I think it's BS that someone who doesn't speak a lick of English, be they Chinese or Mexican, can have someone there to "interpret" the test from English to their native language. English is the international language of pilots, but driver's in this state, which is in the United States the last time I checked, don't have to speak a word of it. I think senior citizens should be forced to retest every two years, preferably annually. Although I would never touch it, I do think marijuana should be legalized. Treat it like tobacco, produce it commercially and levy a tax on it, then see how much more revenue your government will see. I think you should have a graduated motorcycle license that prevent some 20-year old knucklehead from buying an R1 as his first bike. I think dealerships should be required to check for a motorcycle endorsement before selling a bike.