Ok, for those that whine about Suzuki's.....

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

.....dominance in AMA.

If they had dominated AMA for as long as Ducati has dominated WSB, and especially if they'd enjoyed the rules breaks Ducati has ALWAYS enjoyed, people would REALLY be whining. It's amazing to me how people don't complain about the Ducati-fest that has always been WSB, but here goes:

Year Rider Make
'88 Merkle Honda
'89 Merkle Honda
'90 Roche Ducati
'91 Polen Ducati
'92 Polen Ducati
'93 Ru$$ell Kawasaki
'94 Foggy Ducati
'95 Foggy Ducati
'96 Corser Ducati
’97 Kocinski Honda
'98 Foggy Ducati
'99 Foggy Ducati
’00 Edwards Honda
’01 Bayliss Ducati
’02 Edwards Honda
'03 Hodgeson Ducati
’04 Toseland Ducati
’05 Corser Suzuki
’06 Bayliss Ducati
’07 Toseland Honda
’08 Bayliss Ducati

13 titles for Ducati out of 21. Seem a trifle lopsided?

Thanks to Curtis for giving me the great book that had all these stats so I didn't have to pull the info from my Motocourses for the last 20 years

Thoughts on this domination?

My comment is, even though it's blatantly a Duc-fest, the riders in WSB are better than all but Spies and Mladin, giving closer, more exciting racing.

[rybo]

What a mess on the font thing there....

It isn't Suzuki domination that I complain about in AMA, it's the lack of any real competition. I generally know how the race is going to end before it starts. That is not true at the WSBK level, where on any given weekend any number of riders could win it. Ducati hasn't exploited any rule that any other manufacturer couldn't, Honda proved this with Colin on the RC.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

What a mess on the font thing there....

It isn't Suzuki domination that I complain about in AMA, it's the lack of any real competition. I generally know how the race is going to end before it starts. That is not true at the WSBK level, where on any given weekend any number of riders could win it. Ducati hasn't exploited any rule that any other manufacturer couldn't, Honda proved this with Colin on the RC.

Yeah, the font thing sucks. Fixed that!

And yes, I agree on both counts. But.....on the exact flip side of that, Suzuki in AMA hasn't explointed any rule that any other of the Big 4 can't either. I think it's down to rider skill mostly, with Spies and Mladin definately the best. So, other than forcing them to suddenly grow 40lbs of beer belly, I don't see that changing much!

[DanFZ1]

80% rider 20% bike. Take a look at who's riding those machines and who's managing them.

It is interesting to see certain manufacturers dominate a particular series though. Harley dominated with the XR 750 the Ducati Darmah 900 ss was dominant back in the day ( back in the seventies ) and that may be because the rule books were written around the bikes in question to begin with. So if anybody else wanted to play in their sandbox they were just asking for it.

That's why, after awhile, manufacturers get together and come up with new rules. In WSB Ducatis have always been allowed to polish up pretty much everything on the inside and I think it even goes so far as letting them modify the crank. They admit they need extra mods to keep up with 1000cc bikes and so, now we have the 1098 with more displacement but a few more restrictions on mods than before.

Of course it won everything, but look whos riding the bike. (Troy Bayliss)

Suzuki is dominating AMA Superbikes in this century but now look what happens. Rules changes for AMA Superbikes in '09.

I'm sure everybody thought Yamaha had an unfair advantage when they won 6 Grand Prix Championships in 9 years. But look at the legends that rode for Yamaha.

V-twins will all ways have concessions made for them if they are going to race against inline fours. People still love v-twins and want to see them race against the fours so organizers try to seek a balance but give the v-twins too much of an edge. That is WSB.

AMA is one inline four (Suzuki) whipping everybodys ass. (for now) AAARRGGGHHH me mateys, but to the victor go the spoils.

The question I have is could Mladdin and Co. have done it on a Fireblade or and R1? or did Suzuki have an inside track on what the rules would be in advance? as has been alleged in the past.

Personally, I think it is still 80% rider and 20% bike.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

80% rider 20% bike. Take a look at who's riding those machines and who's managing them.

It is interesting to see certain manufacturers dominate a particular series though. Harley dominated with the XR 750 the Ducati Darmah 900 ss was dominant back in the day ( back in the seventies ) and that may be because the rule books were written around the bikes in question to begin with. So if anybody else wanted to play in their sandbox they were just asking for it.

That's why, after awhile, manufacturers get together and come up with new rules. In WSB Ducatis have always been allowed to polish up pretty much everything on the inside and I think it even goes so far as letting them modify the crank. They admit they need extra mods to keep up with 1000cc bikes and so, now we have the 1098 with more displacement but a few more restrictions on mods than before.

Of course it won everything, but look whos riding the bike. (Troy Bayliss)

Suzuki is dominating AMA Superbikes in this century but now look what happens. Rules changes for AMA Superbikes in '09.

I'm sure everybody thought Yamaha had an unfair advantage when they won 6 Grand Prix Championships in 9 years. But look at the legends that rode for Yamaha.

V-twins will all ways have concessions made for them if they are going to race against inline fours. People still love v-twins and want to see them race against the fours so organizers try to seek a balance but give the v-twins too much of an edge. That is WSB.

AMA is one inline four (Suzuki) whipping everybodys ass. (for now) AAARRGGGHHH me mateys, but to the victor go the spoils.

The question I have is could Mladdin and Co. have done it on a Fireblade or and R1? or did Suzuki have an inside track on what the rules would be in advance? as has been alleged in the past.

Personally, I think it is still 80% rider and 20% bike.

Well, I don't remember anyone ever complaining about Yamaha, maybe Honda because of the sheer money they were able to throw at the FIM series, but the rules were and are the same for everyone to follow. In WSB, the twins get a HUGE advantage, and always have. That's obvious from the stats I posted. the Japanese can beat them at their own game, but they have to sell what they race, and their buyers generally don't want twins. I don't. People that want Ducati's are not as influenced by engine power or sheer performance, they'll pay extra for less of that, and more for the "exotic" intangibles. I think they should tweak the rules to give more parity. As it is, it's SO lopsided I'm surprised the Big 4 decide to have even the limited involvement they do.

My real point is I hear everybody crying about Suzuki's dominance in AMA, and as much as I'd like to say it's mostly the bike, the simple fact is that it's Spies and Mladin riding better/harder/faster. As amply evidenced by Yates and now Tommy-Gun not doing nearly as well.

And yes, I think Spies and Mladin would still whoop-a$$ on the field on anything even halfway competitive.

[Filo]

I don't whine about Suzuki's dominance. Like Scott, I just think it is boring as hell to watch. If Mladin and Spies kept winning all the time but third, fourth and fifth were right there with them, that would be much more exciting. And I have never said Mat and Ben were not the major reason for their success. Those guys push each other every weekend and keep improving.

Also, people were complaining bitterly about Ducati's unfair advantage in WSB a few years back. You haven't heard much lately, but it was much worse than anything I have heard about AMA & Suzuki.

Of course, it doesn't help that Suzuki cheats

[DanFZ1]

My real point is I hear everybody crying about Suzuki's dominance in AMA, and as much as I'd like to say it's mostly the bike, the simple fact is that it's Spies and Mladin riding better/harder/faster. As amply evidenced by Yates and now Tommy-Gun not doing nearly as well.

And yes, I think Spies and Mladin would still whoop-a$$ on the field on anything even halfway competitive.

There are many people who bemoan the fact that Suzuki is winning everything but many of them can't understand how messed up HRC Honda is and why the '08 Fireblade (which is the best sportbike for '08 hands down) can't win.

Others, like myself, wish Yamaha had never pulled out of AMA Superbike to begin with. Now, because of being gone from AMA Superbikes for several years, they had a tough time ramping up their efforts to pose any kind of a challenge. Maybe it was too much money for to little return, or maybe it was the rules they didn't like or both, but it seems like they kinda shot themselves in the foot.

As far as Yates goes, either you love him or hate him, but while riding for the Jump Man he has shown everybody that if you're going to beat him, you have to build the better bike and be willing to almost die trying to pass him.

I think he has respect now, even from many of the people that slamed him after the daytona incident, in '03 I think it was. Or the red flag incident at VIR? in '02 if memory serves. But he was just carein' man, that's all.

[BigE]

It's just that roadracers are a bunch of whiners
Look at SX and MX, RC and Bubba Stewart used to battle now with RC gone, Stewart clinched the championship with 2 or 3 rounds remaining (for that matter so did Villopoto in the Lites class, which btw is the Stupidest frickin' class name ever!). So shouldn't everyone be clamouring to have Kawasaki race their 125 two stroke again? Oh yeah, Bubba beat everyone it too!