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Thread: Stirring the Political Pot...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Vance's Avatar
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    Stirring the Political Pot...

    Ladies and Gentlemen and those of you who I would question applying either of those pleasantries to...

    Its 29 days until the General Election...
    Its less than that before Colorado distributes its Mail In Ballot (if you signed up for it)(and rememeber if you did you HAVE to use it - you can't skip it and go to the General Election polling places)...

    That said...
    I'm usually not one to call my shot on anything political because often I prefer creating the debate for the sake of debate because I LOVE to debate...

    ... but in this case - with so much of EVERYTHING at stake... with the fact that McCain and Palin have opted to stop talking about the issues and started launching character and personal attacks on Obama (often the last refuge of a failed campaign) I'm putting my position out there:

    PLEASE - if you have value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity, your children or future children's chances of not inheriting endless debt and endless wars...
    PLEASE Vote for Obama.


    John McCain should scare the crap out of you if you have any sense of who this man has become comparative to who he used to be.

    He is a shell of his former "maverick" self.
    This is a man I used to respect, and even in some respects like as a politician....
    But now --- It - no... HE has become a gimmick. He knows it. If you have any radar for lies YOU know it. Just look at how he always falls back on it whenever he's confronted with having NO plans, no issue statements he holds to, no truth to his "straight talk", no intelligible explanation for picking Palin, ANYTHING he finds difficult to answer he pulls the "Maverick" card and smiles at some ridiculously inapporpriate moment.

    If that doesn't work...
    He busts out with the "when I was in the Hanoi Hilton..." comment trying to gain sympathy and play on some sort of qualification card that he does not have the right to lay claim to.

    Being a mediocre pilot and subsequently SHOT DOWN does not make you qualified to be Commander-in-Chief any more than any derogatory comments he makes towards Obama's supposed inexperience in preparation for that role.

    Is he a hero for the ordeal that befell him in Vietnam? Yes. That is not in question. But what he is NOT is a person that should be the next President of the United States because of that experience.

    Some other things about him that disturb me... besides the fact he's become a two faced Bush cronnie and a traitor to the own ideals he upheld throughout the 80s into the 90s...

    Here are a few things you may or may not know about him that particularly bother me:


    1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1
    2. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."2
    3. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.3
    4. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.4

    Sources:
    1. "The Complicated History of John McCain and MLK Day," ABC News, April 3, 2008

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...mplicated.html


    "McCain Facts," ColorOfChange.org, April 4, 2008

    http://colorofchange.org/mccain_facts/



    2. "McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned," MSNBC, February 18, 2007

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17222147/


    3. "2007 Children's Defense Fund Action Council® Nonpartisan Congressional Scorecard," February 2008

    http://www.childrensdefense.org/site..._scorecard2007


    "McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion," CNN, October 3, 2007

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/...ain.interview/



    4. "John McCain Gets a Zero Rating for His Environmental Record," Sierra Club, February 28, 2008
    http://www.alternet.org/blogs/environment/77913/


    AGAIN...

    PLEASE... for your own sake... for your children's and/or future children's.... for this country you live in, work in, and hopefully love...

    PLEASE....
    Vote Obama
    ...Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.

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  2. #2
    Geriatric Curmudgeon Lifetime Supporter Nick_Ninja's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    "Boulder Liberal Nick_Ninja approves this message."
    "Its all about the motorbikes, always has been and always will be.". ~~ Ewan McGregor 2007

    "It's hard to play the blues when nuthin's really wrong."~~ ---- Joe Walsh 2012

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    Senior Member Vance's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Oh yeah... I forgot...

    "I'm Vance... and I'm NOT running for office (this time)... I'm not an Obama contributor, campaign volunteer, or in any way affiliated with the Obama campaign... but I for gorram fraking certain approved this message as loudly as I possibly can!"

    ...Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.

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    AKA "Devaclis"
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    But what if I am not proponent for having the government run my life for me and tell me what is best/safe/right for me and my family?

    Why do you hate freedom?
    First rule of the internet: *bleep* you and everything you stand for. Second rule of the internet: FKZOR U AND RRYTHING U STND FR!

  5. #5
    Geriatric Curmudgeon Lifetime Supporter Nick_Ninja's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaclis View Post
    But what if I am not proponent for having the government run my life for me and tell me what is best/safe/right for me and my family?

    Why do you hate freedom?
    I don't hate freedom --- I hate members and supporters of the GOP.
    "Its all about the motorbikes, always has been and always will be.". ~~ Ewan McGregor 2007

    "It's hard to play the blues when nuthin's really wrong."~~ ---- Joe Walsh 2012

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    Senior Member pilot's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    You all would be a lot better off if I was El Presidente! (stirring....)
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  7. #7
    Gold Member MetaLord 9's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Character attacks have come from both sides and the Obama campaign started or at least participated in them early in the season so that needs to be taken off the table to begin with.

    Concerning his military service, I agree that being a war hero does not merit being a political one. I appreciate his service greatly as others do and I'm basing neither my opinion nor my vote on his service, only the fact that he has served at all.

    McCain's Maverick reputation was established throughout the 80's & 90's during which you acuse him of being a "Bush Cronie." I agree that is not showing the same tendencies he did during the 2000 campaign when he championed the Straight Talk Express. However, he lost that primary and I think he learned a lesson in doing so. Sometimes you have to swallow your wilder tendencies to afford yourself the chance to make what you think are the right decisions.

    To the "Bush Cronie" comment, I would say that the DNC hasn't fielded potlitically impotent canidates over the past 8 years, but I think that the ways in which they've run their campaigns are unimaginative and lazy. Instead of tackling issues at hand and focusing on "how" reasoning as much as their "what" statements (i.e. John Kerry's promise to bring back American jobs from over seas & keep them in the country while also increasing the minimum wage -John, you know those are two inversely related statements, right? how do you plan on doing that?). Instead of fortifying their platforms, in the last three major elections (counting the current one), the DNC has focused on the fact that their candidate is NOT George W. Bush. I fully agree that W. Bush has never become the President for which we had hoped, however, in the past two elections, the DNC hasn't been able to beat him. Kerry could've done it, but his entire platform centered around the "I'm not George W. Bush, so vote for me" strategy. Obama's campaign is trying to paint McCain as a huge Bush cronie who votes w/Bush 90% of the time. Well, first off, most of the congress votes with the President 90% of the time because 90% of those votes are routine maintenance type of bills & roll calls, such as "should we invite the President to give the State of the Union this year" to which everyone votes "yea." What's more is, even if McCain WAS a hardcore Bush Cronie, which he's NOT (and occasionally agreeing with a sitting President has never been a bad way to shore up support from the same party - a problem which McCain was accused of having at the beginning of primary season), if he WERE a huge Bush supporter then the DNC would be facing round three of the DNC vs. W. Bush, a series for which they've got a 0 for 2 record.

    To the other points referencing the Children's Defense Fund Action Council & League of Conservation Voters, while they claim to be non-partisan, PAC's like these tend largely to be so slanted in their view of who's a better member of congress and who's done more for me lately, that I always take their "facts" with a grain of salt and force myself to consider the converse to their opinion (even when I agree with them), and I have trouble citing any questionably reputable or largely unheard of (to me) source without doing any research. Not discounting your points here, Vance, but I am wary of your refernces without looking into them first.

    I'd love to go on, but I'm afraid that I might end up out on the streets should I do so!
    Last edited by MetaLord 9; Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:04 AM.
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    Gold Member puckstr's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Barrak Hussein Obama???

    Best thing is today is the last day to register to vote... Not registered...no voties for you. Suckas
    For thoes not registered to vote or not voting... shut the fuck up!!!
    Last edited by puckstr; Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:13 AM.
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    Member Bebop's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    I refuse to vote for BO
    Someday someone my kill you with your gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because its empty.

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  10. #10
    Gold Member puckstr's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    What a great guy looking out for his Brother. His one family.
    And you think he will care about the voters. As if!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-in-Kenya.html

    Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

    Senator Barack Obama's long lost brother has been tracked down for the first time living in a shanty town in Kenya, reports claimed.



    By Nick Pisa in Rome
    Last Updated: 11:52AM BST 21 Aug 2008

    George Hussein Onyango Obama, Senator Barack Obama's long lost brother was tracked down living in a hut on the outskirts of Nairobi Photo: Guy Calaf, Vanity Fair, Italy


    The Italian edition of Vanity Fair said that it had found George Hussein Onyango Obama living in a hut in a ramshackle town of Huruma on the outskirts of Nairobi.
    Mr Obama, 26, the youngest of the presidential candidate's half-brothers, spoke for the first time about his life, which could not be more different than that of the Democratic contender.
    "No-one knows who I am," he told the magazine, before claiming: "I live here on less than a dollar a month."
    According to Italy's Vanity Fair his two metre by three metre shack is decorated with football posters of the Italian football giants AC Milan and Inter, as well as a calendar showing exotic beaches of the world.
    Vanity Fair also noted that he had a front page newspaper picture of his famous brother - born of the same father as him, Barack Hussein Obama, but to a different mother, named only as Jael.
    He told the magazine: "I live like a recluse, no-one knows I exist."
    Embarrassed by his penury, he said that he does not does not mention his famous half-brother in conversation.
    "If anyone says something about my surname, I say we are not related. I am ashamed," he said.
    For ten years George Obama lived rough. However he now hopes to try to sort his life out by starting a course at a local technical college.
    He has only met his famous older brother twice - once when he was just five and the last time in 2006 when Senator Obama was on a tour of East Africa and visited Nairobi.
    The Illinois senator mentions his brother in his autobiography, describing him in just one passing paragraph as a "beautiful boy with a rounded head".
    Of their second meeting, George Obama said: "It was very brief, we spoke for just a few minutes. It was like meeting a complete stranger."
    George added he was no longer in contact with his mother and said:"I have had to learn to live and take what I need.
    "Huruma is a tough place, last January during the elections there was rioting and six people were hacked to death. The police don't even arrest you they just shoot you.
    "I have seen two of my friends killed. I have scars from defending myself with my fists. I am good with my fists."
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    Senior Member MikeG's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    So how about BO's radical associations? William Ayres the unrepentant terrorist and Weather Underground? Rev. Jeramiah Wright, and Father Phleger, saying "God Damn America" and "the U, S K,K,K of A" ?
    -How about the fact of BO's senate voting record in which he has voted "present" more than yes or no, and when he was actually man enough to cast a real vote, he has voted with his party 96%, let me repeat that, 96%! And those of you who are in love with this guy believe every word that he says when he tells you he will work hard for bi-partisan solutions. Right... If you can't see past the B/S of BO's rhetoric, then you are obviously brain washed. It's unfortunate that so many think, "if you vote for me all of your wildest dreams will come true"

    http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...mbers/o000167/
    Last edited by MikeG; Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:24 AM.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Vance's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaclis View Post
    Why do you hate freedom?
    I think that question should be applied to every politician who believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

    Why do you hate freedom?

    Isn't the truth of Roe v Wade about freedom over one's own body?
    Why should a parasitic organism have MORE rights than the host carrying it?
    How is THAT freedom?

    I'm sorry - but I'd trust a card carrying ACLU member Democrat to give me more plausible freedom to control my body and extend those rights to my fellow man or woman's bodies accordingly than I'd ever trust any right wing bible beating Republican ever will or would.

    And come on Puckstr...
    Barrak Hussein Obama?
    Really?
    Are you still trying to scare people because he has a middle name that is supposed to recall some fear mongering and emotional disdain? Give me a fucking break with that lame ass angle. Its tired. Its meaningless.
    ...Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.

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  13. #13
    Geriatric Curmudgeon Lifetime Supporter Nick_Ninja's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    [quote=MikeG;364371]<snip> It's unfortunate that so many think, "if you vote for me all of your wildest dreams will come true"<snip>[quote]

    Or if you vote for 'the other guy' all your worst nightmares will come true. Well we are well on our way for that last statement to become reality.
    "Its all about the motorbikes, always has been and always will be.". ~~ Ewan McGregor 2007

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    Senior Member MikeG's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Well it poses an interesting thought if you actually understand the simple fact that the executive branch of the government has absolutely no power to write laws or amendments. The legislative branch, congress, has that power exclusively. So the interesting thought would be how are either going to go about making all these changes as president, when in fact, they are not afforded that power?
    Mike




  15. #15
    Gold Member puckstr's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance View Post
    And come on Puckstr...
    Barrak Hussein Obama?
    Really?
    Are you still trying to scare people because he has a middle name that is supposed to recall some fear mongering and emotional disdain? Give me a fucking break with that lame ass angle. Its tired. Its meaningless.

    Meaningless. Well it pisses you off
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    Senior Member Filo's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    I hate you all. I have actual proof that all of you, liberal or conservative, regularly have sex with rodents. You also cut in line in front of veterans and push over old people. You kick puppies.








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  17. #17
    Gold Member puckstr's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Adam 08 +10000000
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    Geriatric Curmudgeon Lifetime Supporter Nick_Ninja's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
    Well it poses an interesting thought if you actually understand the simple fact that the executive branch of the government has absolutely no power to write laws or amendments. The legislative branch, congress, has that power exclusively. So the interesting thought would be how are either going to go about making all these changes as president, when in fact, they are not afforded that power?
    Changes can be made with in the law. The current administration has not only abused the power that is granted within the outlines of the Constitution but has clearly over extended those privileges.

    http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_ml...154_index.html
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  19. #19
    Senior Member MikeG's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    All that was is a paper for school, somebody's opinion, in my opinion.
    Mike




  20. #20
    Senior Member TFOGGuys's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    *sigh* .... If only Bob Barr were better known.... the Libertarians probably represent the beliefs and values of main stream America better than the career politicians of the two dominant parties. Wake the F*CK UP, America!

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  21. #21
    Geriatric Curmudgeon Lifetime Supporter Nick_Ninja's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
    All that was is a paper for school, somebody's opinion, in my opinion.
    OK Ace. There is a fact out there that the Bush administration has circumvented the Constitution numerous times using the signing statement (over 400 at last count) to ramrod their agenda up the American publics ass. If you are so naive as to require a through bibliography to the evidence that is out there than here is an article that was published by the Boston Globe. Enjoy



    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...dreds_of_laws/
    "Its all about the motorbikes, always has been and always will be.". ~~ Ewan McGregor 2007

    "It's hard to play the blues when nuthin's really wrong."~~ ---- Joe Walsh 2012

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  22. #22
    Gold Member salsashark's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance View Post
    I think that question should be applied to every politician who believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

    Why do you hate freedom?

    Isn't the truth of Roe v Wade about freedom over one's own body?
    Why should a parasitic organism have MORE rights than the host carrying it?
    How is THAT freedom?

    I'm sorry - but I'd trust a card carrying ACLU member Democrat to give me more plausible freedom to control my body and extend those rights to my fellow man or woman's bodies accordingly than I'd ever trust any right wing bible beating Republican ever will or would.

    And come on Puckstr...
    Barrak Hussein Obama?
    Really?
    Are you still trying to scare people because he has a middle name that is supposed to recall some fear mongering and emotional disdain? Give me a fucking break with that lame ass angle. Its tired. Its meaningless.
    Don't jump down Puckstr's throat while doing the same thing regarding RvW... I love how this comes up every time a demmy wants to bag on the GOP.

    Do you honestly believe that the GOP has the power to overturn RvW? Honestly...

    And, if they had such power, why wasn't it overturned during the Reagan , Bush sr., or Bush jr. administration.

    To clarify, I consider myself a conservative, but I am also pro-choice. Not that I think it is right or moral, but because I don't believe the government should deny proper medical care to women choosing to undergo such a procedure.
    Do not put off living the life you dream of. Next year may never come. If we are always waiting for something to change...
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  23. #23
    Gold Member puckstr's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by salsashark View Post
    Don't jump down Puckstr's throat while doing the same thing regarding RvW... I love how this comes up every time a demmy wants to bag on the GOP.

    Do you honestly believe that the GOP has the power to overturn RvW? Honestly...

    And, if they had such power, why wasn't it overturned during the Reagan , Bush sr., or Bush jr. administration.

    To clarify, I consider myself a conservative, but I am also pro-choice. Not that I think it is right or moral, but because I don't believe the government should deny proper medical care to women choosing to undergo such a procedure.
    RvW is a red Herring

    The title of the thread is "Stirring the Political Pot"
    Yes it is a shit pot and I am just trying to get everyone's goat. Muuuhahaha

    And TFOG the parties are FUCKED in the head, Neither the Dems nor the GOP have it correct. The practice of voting for the lesser of two evils is horribly flawed.

    The problem is the "Choices" we have.

    Oh wait .....
    Wait......
    WAIT for it.........







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  24. #24
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
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    Re: Stirring the Political Pot...

    F#ck Oh-Bama. Him and his Un-American wife who's only "proud to be an American" because her unqualified black husband is running the race card for the Presidency.

    Do I agree with McCain's stand on abortion or ILLEGAL immigration? F#ck no, but I look at the alternative and cringe.

    McCain, baby!

    P.S. Martin Luther King was NOT a Dr., just ask anyone who actually EARNED their doctorate in school. I would have voted against the holiday as well. Why not a holiday specifically for Kennedy who was assasinated in office instead? The word is "Pandering".
    --------------------------------------------------
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