Obama: "Spread the wealth around..."

[dchd1130]

Good post. All this hate the rich stuff going around right now is kind of ironic. I want to know how many people get a paycheck from a poor person. If it gets to the point where we cant make a profit, then its not worth all the risk and hassle. Bush's tax cuts generated more income for the guberment then what was generated during the Clinton years. If its too expensive to do business people will stop doing this tax the rich is an anti growth plan.

[The Black Knight]

Here's what I don't understand. Why is it fair to take away from those who produce results and give to those who sit on their butts??

And when I say results, I mean everyone from Donald Trump all the way down to the guy who works at McDonalds. If you get up everyday, with a clear objective in your mind of going to work and "EARNING" your paycheck then you are someone who produces results. You benefit society and you're an asset.

What I don't undestand is why is it o.k. to take money away from those who do produce and give to those who do not. It's my belief that just because Bill Gates has amassed his empire through Microsoft, doesn't mean myself or anyone else should be entitled to it. Just as I believe that everything I've worked for and gained is off limits to Bill Gates and everyone else. What he has is his.... and what I have is mine.... and what you have is yours....

How is that such a hard concept for most of the numbnuts in this country to understand? Just because someone else has more that you do, doesn't mean you are entitled to what they have. Maybe they worked harder then you have, to get what they have. Maybe they inherited it, or maybe they just get all the breaks. Regardless, no where in our Constitution and in the framing of our country did our Founding Fathers believe that what one guy has, should automatically become community property.

Thomas Jefferson said it best, "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". Pretty self-explanitory with the whole "Pursuit of". Hmmm, "Pursuit" would mean that action needs to be taken and that the action to be taken is on your own behalf. America is what you make of it.

If people want to sit on their butts or become homeless(yeah believe me, I know of some transients that have chosen their lifestyle), then that's their business. However, don't expect me or the rest of the result producing Americans to make up for your sorry waste of space self. Don't expect us to pick up the tab for your health problems or financial problems.

I've got my own problems, I don't need to be handling anyone else's.

[dchd1130]

Its funny that none of our Obama fans have anything to say in this thread

[MetaLord 9]

^^I noticed that actually...

I fully agree with The Black Knight. The sense of false entitlement that many Americans harbor is greedy and reprehensible. Because one has made a choice to be lazy does not mean that they are entitled to the earnings or benefits of another. Furthermore, if those feeling that sense of entitlement had to suddenly give up something of their own, you'd better believe that we'd ALL hear about it.

Government should be a place where people can gather to further their state, not something that they use to replace motivation. Capitalism is a survival-of-the-fittest type system and people have been lulled into a false sense of the world being fair. Person A works just as hard as person B and B makes more money. B got a break. Instead of chalking it up to some just getting better brakes than others, A cries wolf and feels a sense of entitlement. A: "I worked just as hard, I should make just as much! Give me B's money!" It shouldn't work that way.

I don't want Donald Trump's money. Furthermore, I don't want YOU to get Donald Trump's money either! It's called Donald Trump's money for a REASON. I find it ironic that the people who seem to have this great disdain for the rich are the folks relying on the system instead of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps to do something about their life. The people who hate the rich are those who don't do anything about themselves. One of these days, the rich, who are the most able to do this, will up & leave and those who have been screaming & crying about "where's my share of your money?!!?!?!" will be the ones having to cough it up. The catch, though, is that they'll have to cough up MORE to replace the HUGE chunk of support that just left the country for their own private island b/c we felt they wouldn't share.

[vegasbound]

What you guys don't get, is that paying more taxes is not a penalty, it's it way of making our economy stronger so the middle and lower classes actually have money to spend on the products and services that others make and deliver.

Can't you see what the last eight years of tax cuts during a time of war have gotton us???? Sorry, trickle down economics does not work.

Obama is only talking about raising taxes on the rich 3%, or like it was during the Reagan and Clinton years.

Most rich people use all the tax loop holes and don't pay as much as you think anyways.

If you are making over 250k and you can't bare to help our country out of this mess you voted for you are some selfish bastards. Most of you dummies don't even make that much, and you are going to vote against your country and your own best interests once again. LOLOLOL

[MetaLord 9]

you are going to vote against your country and your own best interests once again. LOLOLOL

Point, if you will, to where John Kerry & Al Gore would have made this country better & how a vote for them would have been in my own best interests.

K.

Raising the taxes on the rich 3% is a substantially higher dollar amount that probably any of us could afford anyway. The principle of the matter is, for a class that's already paying a higher percentage of taxes anyway, how do we justify charging them more? At what point does it cease to be support & patriotism and become a punishment for success & well being? There's been no indication that giving people more money means that they're going to turn around and reinvest in the economy in the form of purchasing goods and services. Case in point, what did most Americans spend their 2008 stimulus checks on? Most of us paid down our debts. Sure some recontributed & supported the economy, but not nearly enough to have made it worthwhile.

Trickle down economics may not be perfect but it's a better plan than socialism.

If you are making over 250k and you can't bare to help our country out of this mess you voted for you are some selfish bastards.

At what pont does continually medicating the patient cease to become aid and start to become an addiction? Can't help but think it's not too far away...

[dirkterrell]

The principle of the matter is, for a class that's already paying a higher percentage of taxes anyway, how do we justify charging them more?

The top 1% of income earners pay nearly 40% of all income tax. The top 10% pay about 70% of the income taxes. The bottom 50% of income earners (those making less than $31K) pay 3%.

Source : http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22652.html

Dirk

[MikeG]

If you are making over 250k and you can't bare to help our country out of this mess you voted for you are some selfish bastards. Most of you dummies don't even make that much, and you are going to vote against your country and your own best interests once again. LOLOLOL

A majority of small business owners file their business tax under their personal income, so it realistically would be hurting this group of people the most.

[dirkterrell]

Here's an interesting number: in 2006 the roughly 82,000 people in the top 1% of income in Florida paid 3.3% of the federal income tax. That is more than the 66 million people in the whole country who are in the bottom 50%. Similar numbers for California, New York and Texas.

Source for the state data.

Dirk

[Kranth]

OK, you guys found the source, please read the bit where both Obama's AND McCain's tax plan have this same flaw: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/23727.html

[Snowman]

Conceptually I agree with BK as well, However… (and you knew this was coming…)

One item seems to be overlooked by everyone here.
If we cut taxes (for anyone) how are we going to deal with this tiny problem?

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 15 Oct 2008 at 04:33:57 PM GMT is $10,310,630,889,148.29
The estimated population of the United States is 304,913,078
Each citizen's share of this debt is $33,814.98.

I don't have that much in my 401K anymore...

[MetaLord 9]

^^I would push for a rebalance of the budget, altho I have neither the time nor the brain power for such an endeavor

[dirkterrell]

One item seems to be overlooked by everyone here.
If we cut taxes (for anyone) how are we going to deal with this tiny problem?

Well, the option that seems to be utterly foreign to politicians on both sides these days is to have the government spend less.

But since the tax cuts in 2003, the economy has climbed pretty well. See http://www.heritage.org/Research/fea...uts-Boost.html

Dirk

[Snowman]

Oh... of course… What an idiot I am. Just Rebalance the National Debt.

After all us tax payers are now the proud owners of several fail finical institutions with loads of CPA’s with nothing to do. Just get them to cook the books and that number will just go away.

[Dr. Joe Siphek]

i got an e-mail that Obama's the anti-Christ...

Got this e-mail this morning.

Just in case some of you young whippersnappers (& some older ones) didn't know this.

Be sure and show it to your kids. They need a little history lesson on what's what. And it doesn't matter whether you are Democrat of Republican. Facts are facts!!!

Our Social Security
Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:
1.) That participation in the Program would be
completely voluntary.
2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
incomes into the Program
3.) That the money the participants elected to put
into the Program would be deductible from
their income for tax purposes each year
4.) That the money the participants put into the
Independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the
General Operating Fund, and therefore, would
only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other government program, and,
5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.
Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the federal government to 'put away', you may be interested in the following:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which political party took Social Security from the
Independent 'Trust Fund' and put it in to the
General Fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratically-
controlled House and Senate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which political party eliminated the income tax
deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?
A: The Democratic Party.

Q: Which political party started taxing Social
Security annuities?
A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the
'tie-breaking' deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice President of the U.S.

-----------------------------
--------------------------------------

Q: Which political party decided to start giving
annuity payments to immigrants?
AND MY FAVORITE:
A: That's right!
Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party.

Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, they began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them

even though they never paid a dime into it! Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away! And the worst part about it is, uninformed citizens believe it! If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe changes will evolve. Maybe not, some Democrats are awfully sure of what isn't so.
But it's worth a try.

Actions speak louder than bumper stickers.
AND CONGRESS GIVES THEMSELVES 100% RETIREMENT FOR ONLY SERVING ONE TERM!!!

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson

[MetaLord 9]

Oh... of course… What an idiot I am. Just Rebalance the National Debt.

After all us tax payers are now the proud owners of several fail finical institutions with loads of CPA’s with nothing to do. Just get them to cook the books and that number will just go away.

I didn't say rebalance the national debt, I said look into what the government spending on what projects. Maybe throwing money at a problem isn't the best way to solve it. Giving free handouts isn't the best idea either. What I'm saying is that the only way to pay down the national debt is to rebalance the budget so that we're not spending more than we have available, not "cook the books" so that it looks like we come out on top.

The solution to spending too much money on unnecessary projects is not got get MORE money to spend, it's to spend the money we already HAVE better! If your son in college is spending too much money on beer & cd's and comes to you saying "I need more money, I don't have enough to eat and I owe more and more to my college loans every day!" you're not going to say "well I think that since I have more money in my bank account than you do then I will give you more money." You say "well maybe you should rethink how you're spending the money I'm already giving you and make sure you're buying food & books and maybe SAVING a little coin to contribute to your college loansl."

[dapper]

i got an e-mail that Obama's the anti-Christ...

Travis,
We shouldn't go and put our lemon wedge thinking caps on by using concepts, accountability and historical analytical analysis's to open minds. How dare you...

This country wants more sheep, not shepherds.

“Minds are like parachutes; they work best when open.” Thomas Dewar

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I think you're lowballing that number b/c you're such a good guy...

Now THAT'S funny! these are the same people that make WWF wrassaling a hit too..... (although, most of them will probably vote for McCain so that's ok with me!)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Its funny that none of our Obama fans have anything to say in this thread

They're too busy registering to vote 75+ times....

[BeoBe]

Because 51% of the public are retards.

Totally. I mean cmon the guy has his own tv channel hes using to flood everyones head, and sadly most the morons seem to be eating it up.

Well all i can say is SCREW obama, and if he wins we can kiss the sweet ass gun sales on this forum goodbye..

[Snowman]

They're too busy registering to vote 75+ times....

How about Obama’s budget plan is more financially conservative than McCain’s budget plan…

Can Obama, McCain keep promises to cut taxes?

"McCain's plan costing an estimated $1.5 trillion over five years and Obama's close to $1 trillion during that time."

Not that I see either plan getting paid for completely.
But Obama’s plan has the better chance out of the box.

[puckstr]

i got an e-mail that Obama's the anti-Christ...

Imposter.... I AM the Anti-Christ

[Rhino]

What you guys don't get, is that paying more taxes is not a penalty, it's it way of making our economy stronger so the middle and lower classes actually have money to spend on the products and services that others make and deliver.

Can't you see what the last eight years of tax cuts during a time of war have gotton us???? Sorry, trickle down economics does not work.

Obama is only talking about raising taxes on the rich 3%, or like it was during the Reagan and Clinton years.

Most rich people use all the tax loop holes and don't pay as much as you think anyways.

If you are making over 250k and you can't bare to help our country out of this mess you voted for you are some selfish bastards. Most of you dummies don't even make that much, and you are going to vote against your country and your own best interests once again. LOLOLOL

I started reading this and thought you were being sarcastic at first...

To say paying MORE taxes isn't a penalty, then lets say paying TAXES isn't a penalty. Therefore, everyone should. It's all about being fair, right? So how about everyone pays 15%? How about a per person flat fee? The .gov collected 1.2 trillion from income taxes. $1,200,000,000,000/300,000,000 Americans = $4000/person Thats FAIR, right? Well sure, it's gonna be a bit of an increase on the bottom 50% who currently don't pay anything, but it's fair.

I can't understand how the liberals are so ok with higher taxes on the rich. "Obama is only talking about raising taxes on the rich 3%". What if someone said the people with the bottom 3% of grades in school have to work the fields and the other jobs that "Americans won't do". The ACLU would be screaming slavery and the 14th amendment in the blink of an eye. Yet taking the results of someone's efforts rather than their actual physical labor is A-OK in their book.

What YOU don't get is what I stated in my original post. Taxes are figured in to the cost of doing business. Any business plan includes a target profit.. If my taxes go up 10%, my rates go up 10%. So does the mechanic's, the car manufacturers, the doctor's, the barber, etc. Under O's plan, most (60%) would see an maximum reduction of $1250. How fast would it add up if you had to pay and additional 10% on the neccessities of life? ALL of them? There's your "trickle down".

(Numbers used not actual prices, just nice and round)
Water heater goes out= $1000 +10% now $1100 But wait, the company that makes the water heaters got taxed more too. $500 is now $550. And the supply house selling it? Yup, they were making more than $250k, so another 10%, now we're at $605. $1100+$105 in material increases, $1205 . YOU are now out $205. Not the plumber, not the supply house owner, and not the heater company. There goes a % of your "tax savings". Or are you going to go without hot water?
Transmission goes out= $2000 now $2200 etc. etc.
It will add up FAST! All of a sudden the new found "disposable income" of the middle class is gone.

Most charts I've seen show that 60% of taxpayers make 60k or less. Between the 2 plans, McCain's would be $1093, O's would be $1250.


The problem is what we are currently spending on, and what each wants to spend on in the future. Per that pesky piece o' paper, the only things the Fed is supposed to be spending on is the military, roads, post offices, etc. No where does it stipulate that they can spend on health care or "health and human services". By this chart, you can see more was spent on H&H services than the military. It also shows the hare's breath away that is being spent on interest of the national debt. For Snowman to worry about the $30k per person on the debt, he needs to be concerned with the unfunded promises that are coming. Between Social Security and Medicare/caid, its more like $400k per either person or household, I forget which.



To say that rich need to own the responsibility of "paying for this mess"... Why don't you instead ask that everyone pull their fair share. We all know where babies come from. We all know how expensive it is for an individual to survive on their own. How about lessening the demand made on the govt?....sorry taxpayers. I believe you can have as many kids as YOU can afford. "It takes a village to raise a child" should not be a tax policy. We don't die at 30 anymore. Graduate, get a CAREER, have savings, buy a house, THEN start a family. Minimum wage is not designed to support a family of 4. It is a starting point in the business world. If you have made minimum wage for 30 years, chances are you didn't apply yourself correctly. Hell, even the cashiers at McDonald's get promoted after a while.

It is NOT the taxpayers responsibility to make sure everyone lives as long as possible and in perfect health along the way. It is NOT the taxpayers responsibility to make sure you or anyone else has a roof over their head and food. If you want to say "we owe it to our fellow man", fine. If that's the case, we dont' need the IRS to enforce that, right?

To say that the rich use loopholes and pay less... Per the 1% pays 40% stat. O's tax policy is putting all OUR eggs in one basket. What happens if that 1% finds a way out of most income taxes? The fed loses 40% of it's income. You know they won't cut the entitlement programs. Will you be so accepting of a tax increase when it comes knocking on YOUR door?

I don't truly believe either of them have a good plan or that either can actually implement it. It all comes down to Congress, as they are charged with making budgets and levying taxes.


Here's my offer: I will pay 100% of you 300% more than I am currently paying you if you DON'T vote for Obama!

My offer to the .gov: I will (gladly) pay the $30k share of the national debt right now if you remove me from future tax responsibilities. Deal? (remember, I don't make over 250k/year and we still have "the rich" to pay for things)

[MetaLord 9]

^^