The Democrats have ever intention of taking our guns...

[The Black Knight]

First...my question has not been answered. How do you get, "They're gonna take away our guns!" out of "preserving 2nd amendment rights."?

Do you guys still have your guns? Yes

Have you ever not been able to own guns? Under the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, I would not have been able to purchase any kind of AR15 or AK47 or .50 BMG, so yes I would not been able to own those guns during that period of time.

Now, for some more details...

How do you define the word "loophole"? In your words, a private seller can go to a gun show and sell guns without requiring a background check. That, to me, is a loophole to getting around the background-check requirement. No, it's not a loophole because a Private Seller is no part of a sponsored Gun Show. Gun Shows are put on by sponsors and dealers attend them to display, try out and sell their weapons. A Private Seller can sell a gun at a gun show to a private buyer, just as easily as he would have if he put the gun for sale in the local For Sale ads paper. It's only a loophole if dealers are breaking the law, which they aren't. Because they know they are under watchful eye. You think the only ones at gun shows are patrons? Nope, undercover law enforcement is there as well.

Gun violence is so bad in some parts of our country that even the police strongly advocate for gun control. Yeah and that's a dumb idea, keeping law abiding residents/citizens from protecting themselves and families in these crime ridden cities. If you have 12 million people in New York and say 20000 cops, that's a pretty bad Cop to Person ratio. Law Enforcement is on the short end of the stick in this battle. Now if people were allowed to own and protect themselves in their own homes and cars, well then the number shifts dramtically and the cops now have a fighting stance and a front on the battle against crime.

Remember this, Cops are not sworn to protect you as a personal body guard. They neither are crime preventors. Crime Prevention starts with the average citizen. Cops can't be in all places at all the time, but you sure can be. This greatly forces the odds on the criminals.

"The International Association of Chiefs of Police issued a report Wednesday that calls for stronger gun laws and urges law enforcement agencies to better educate the public about gun violence and to form more partnerships with public health officials in preventing firearms-related deaths." http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/332417_guns20.html

"Gun Control" is not "taking away our precious guns!" It's "hopefully" keeping guns out of the hands of people who mean harm. It may not thwart every bad person, but some people believe in better checks on who should be allowed to own a gun. Unless you all have a history of violence...or maybe you're all a bunch'o nutballs in disguise...or maybe, you're all terrorists? I didn't think so. So, stop your whining, you will not lose your precious guns, dammit!!!
Here's an idea, you want to keep guns out of criminals hands?? Then go after the criminals and leave law abiding citizens alone. Cathy here's another epiphony for you. Gun Laws only affect law abiding citizens. It's because only law abiding citizens respect the law. Criminals by definition of their profession: break the law for a living.

So you think criminals give a damn about your gun laws??? If their whole purpose in life is break the law? I mean come on, we were born at night but not last night.

Only way to crack down on so called "illegal" guns is to stop them from entering into the country via the "black market" and drug and gun trafficing.

And sorry about the argument that Dems are "slowly gonna erode the 2nd amendment right"...I have an answer to that as well, but none of you will like it...so I'll stop here. One thing that I will say that has to do with that argument...I do not believe you will ever lose your rights to own a gun. It just won't happen. It's part of what makes America. But...big BUTT...I do not believe in leaving gun selling completely unchecked. Just like so many other things in life, scrutiny is well-placed in this instance.

Lastly,

well if you don't think it can't happen in America Cathy, just look at Australia and England. Both countries have instituted gun bans and confiscations or gun turn-ins. After these laws went into affect, the violent crime(crime with guns or weapons) sky-rocketed. Now the people of these countries are crying out to get their guns back. They're screwed now because they gave in to government brain wash BS. The government can't keep you safe, neither can your local law enforcement.

I heard a great quote from a recent movie. It's as follows:
"Most people respect the Badge, everyone respects the Gun."

[DavidofColorado]

I am, mainly because I read and I believe in polls, just as McCain did when he was 1 point up a month ago--but we will see Nov 4th. I admit McCain has one last shot, he can get on his knees and beg folks to vote for him, he's groveled and pandered so much it shouldn't be to hard for him to do.

Or he could spend the money and beg people thru the mail like Obama is doing begging me to vote early, giving directions to the voting place and doing everything cept driving me there.

I'm begging. Don't fall for the BS pretty colored pipe dream that he dangleing in front of you. Your being had.

[Pandora-11]

ZETA Yep, Ok, you're not angry. Watch out for big bad F on Fam. I'm guessing maybe that you're gay? I realize that they don't seem to like that very well. Stand up for yourself and relax.

[mtnairlover]

Jason...laws are created to protect the innocent and punish the criminals. If there were no gun laws, then the criminals who find guns and use them in crimes would not be punished as harshly.

Same goes for any law out there. They are there to protect...not take away from law-abiding citizens, which is why you still have your guns.

[DavidofColorado]

Lastly,

well if you don't think it can't happen in America Cathy, just look at Australia and England. Both countries have instituted gun bans and confiscations or gun turn-ins. After these laws went into affect, the violent crime(crime with guns or weapons) sky-rocketed. Now the people of these countries are crying out to get their guns back. They're screwed now because they gave in to government brain wash BS. The government can't keep you safe, neither can your local law enforcement.

I heard a great quote from a recent movie. It's as follows:
"Most people respect the Badge, everyone respects the Gun."

The worst part is that those that didn't turn in there weapons can't even use them for defense because they are not supposed to have them and if they are they are charged for using a gun to protect themselves. A gun is the enemy here. The criminal just left while they are standing around pointing at the gun.

[zetaetatheta]

He said that nobody is going to take his guns. (like he has any) so we should vote for someone that wants to take them. Arguing rationally is such a mine field for him.

What's to argue? Just because we differ doesn't make your argument right and mine wrong. I made my point and it is logical and true, an amendment to the constitution is very difficult to achieve. BTW, I've owned guns all my life and always will--always.

[DavidofColorado]

ZETA Yep, Ok, you're not angry. Watch out for big bad F on Fam. I'm guessing maybe that you're gay? I realize that they don't seem to like that very well. Stand up for yourself and relax.

He not angry he just a bigot of people different than him.

What is the "big bad F on Fam" mean?

[DavidofColorado]

What's to argue? Just because we differ doesn't make your argument right and mine wrong. I made my point and it is logical and true, an amendment to the constitution is very difficult to achieve. BTW, I've owned guns all my life and always will--always.

Oh yeah what kinda guns do you own? What kinda killing bullet does it use?

[The Black Knight]

Jason...laws are created to protect the innocent and punish the criminals. If there were no gun laws, then the criminals who find guns and use them in crimes would not be punished as harshly.

Same goes for any law out there. They are there to protect...not take away from law-abiding citizens, which is why you still have your guns.

True, and I agree with you on the reason laws were created. However, if these laws are created to protect the innocent and punish the criminals. Why is it that the innocent get the short end of the stick and the criminals continue to break the law?

I mean seriously, how can a criminal break into someone's house, fall on a butcher knife and then sue because they got hurt in someone's house they weren't supposed to be in, in the first place? Not to mention sueing the homeowner but winning??

I still have my firearms because groups like the NRA and so forth are out there fighting to make sure legislation doesnt' make it through congress. Make no mistake Cathy, having our Second Amendment right still here is not because of Congress or a President. It's because of private organizations picking up the banner and fighting for the Amendment are the only reason we have this liberty.

[zetaetatheta]

ZETA Yep, Ok, you're not angry. Watch out for big bad F on Fam. I'm guessing maybe that you're gay? I realize that they don't seem to like that very well. Stand up for yourself and relax.

Are you gay and trying to hit on me? Sorry married with children and actually have an education--you might try it sometime, may enlighten you.

[The Black Knight]

The worst part is that those that didn't turn in there weapons can't even use them for defense because they are not supposed to have them and if they are they are charged for using a gun to protect themselves. A gun is the enemy here. The criminal just left while they are standing around pointing at the gun.

Exactly David, I remember reading about a British man a few years back who didn't turn in his Shotgun when the gun ban laws went into affect in England. Later he caught some intruders trying to break into his home. He quickly grabbed his shotgun, killed on of the intruders and the other(s) ran off.

After he did the right thing by calling the police. He was then arrested and sentenced to jail, for murder and having a weapon. All for defending his own home and family?

Now tell me Cathy, if that isn't the laws screwing the innocent??

[DavidofColorado]

Jason...laws are created to protect the innocent and punish the criminals. If there were no gun laws, then the criminals who find guns and use them in crimes would not be punished as harshly.

Same goes for any law out there. They are there to protect...not take away from law-abiding citizens, which is why you still have your guns.

I would like to believe that too. But I don't anymore and I have seen the light. The dems don't like guns or cars or corporations and even though they say they like the poor I don't think they like those people either. But when they say they do they can be very convincing. I have just seen them say "Do as I say not as I do." one to many times.

[The Black Knight]

Are you gay and trying to hit on me? Sorry married with children and actually have an education--you might try it sometime, may enlighten you.

I think she was asking if you were(not to be mean) but because of your disdain for Focus on the Family. I don't believe she was making fun of you man.

[Filo]

The whole "take the guns away" argument rings pretty hollow. It is the same argument used against helmet laws - they will keep eroding 'till there is nothing left. That is a pretty big crock o' crap. The "Democrats" don't have every intention of taking your guns. Some Democrats will have that intention, some won't. They are not a homogenous blob, just as the Republicans are not.

You guys want to sway the swing voter away from Obama? Try this (like McCain should have been doing the last month or two):

If Obama gets elected we will have a Democrat president. If the Senate race goes as expected, the Dems will have a filibuster proof 60 seats. If the Congressional race goes as expected, the Dems will have a big majority. One party control of the executive and legislative branches of our government should scare the crap out of you - Democrat or Republican. It has happened only twice since 1982 and great things failed to come from it.

But the Democrats aren't going to take your guns. Just like the Republicans aren't going to abolish abortion.

[Canuck]

You need to clam the Fuck down David and Pandora, or this thread is going in the Graveyard.

[Pandora-11]

Davidof Denver,
F on Fam means Focus on the Family. Zeta mentioned it.
(New poster and haven't figured out how to add the quote.)Duh, I need an education.
Zeta honey, the only thing you and I have in common is our Greek moniker.
Don't need to hit, but thank you. Love ya!

[Filo]

well if you don't think it can't happen in America Cathy, just look at Australia and England. Both countries have instituted gun bans and confiscations or gun turn-ins. After these laws went into affect, the violent crime(crime with guns or weapons) sky-rocketed.

Citation please? I know London is having trouble with a rapidly rising knife-based violent crime wave, but London is not England, just like Chicago is not the US. As for Australia, I didn't know anyone lived there anymore

[zetaetatheta]

Oh yeah what kinda guns do you own? What kinda killing bullet does it use?

Winchester Classic 101, 20 ga., Remington youth 20 ga., Ruger 77 mrkII .243, Remington 700 25-06, Marlin 22 lever action, and Smith&Wesson Airweight 38 special. 25-06 is in Florida with my brother. That's it, but looking to buy a 270 or 308 for Colorado. Moved here from Mississippi.
My point is I have no fear in losing my guns and I am in favor of criminal backround checks.

[Pandora-11]

Sorry Canuck. I'll be good. Just having fun.

[The Black Knight]

The whole "take the guns away" argument rings pretty hollow. It is the same argument used against helmet laws - they will keep eroding 'till there is nothing left. That is a pretty big crock o' crap. The "Democrats" don't have every intention of taking your guns. Some Democrats will have that intention, some won't. They are not a homogenous blob, just as the Republicans are not.

You guys want to sway the swing voter away from Obama? Try this (like McCain should have been doing the last month or two):

If Obama gets elected we will have a Democrat president. If the Senate race goes as expected, the Dems will have a filibuster proof 60 seats. If the Congressional race goes as expected, the Dems will have a big majority. One party control of the executive and legislative branches of our government should scare the crap out of you - Democrat or Republican. It has happened only twice since 1982 and great things failed to come from it.

But the Democrats aren't going to take your guns. Just like the Republicans aren't going to abolish abortion.

I agree with you that not all Democrats are out to get guns. The Salazar's of Colorado have A ratings from the NRA. Buffie McFayden has a A+ rating from the NRA as well. Bill Richardson is a B rating I think. Just to name a few.

There are some Republicans that want to ban guns too, it's not just a Repub's vs. Dems thing. It's anti-gunners vs. pro-gunners. Republicans like Giuliani(regradless of what he says now), NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg(whom I disapprove of his very existence), Mitt Romney back gun-control for a time. And even up until recently McCain had a C+ rating with the NRA(not a great rating, but not an F rating like Hillary, Kennedy, Obama, Schumer, Feinsten and Pelosi have).

I agree with you as well, about having one party control the government. I think we need a good balanced mix of both. Checks and Balances anyone? But what I don't think we need are more and more gun-grabbers.

[zetaetatheta]

I think she was asking if you were(not to be mean) but because of your disdain for Focus on the Family. I don't believe she was making fun of you man.

So if you don't support Focus on the Family you are gay..oh how christian.

[zetaetatheta]

Davidof Denver,
F on Fam means Focus on the Family. Zeta mentioned it.
(New poster and haven't figured out how to add the quote.)Duh, I need an education.
Zeta honey, the only thing you and I have in common is our Greek moniker.
Don't need to hit, but thank you. Love ya!

Ditto

[DavidofColorado]

Exactly David, I remember reading about a British man a few years back who didn't turn in his Shotgun when the gun ban laws went into affect in England. Later he caught some intruders trying to break into his home. He quickly grabbed his shotgun, killed on of the intruders and the other(s) ran off.

After he did the right thing by calling the police. He was then arrested and sentenced to jail, for murder and having a weapon. All for defending his own home and family?

Now tell me Cathy, if that isn't the laws screwing the innocent??

Doesn't it seem like a law is a pretty lousy deterrent to a criminal not concerned with following and law? I think, thru my own misfortune I might add, that being able to protect yourself and criminals at least knowing that you may be able to fight back is a better deterrent than any law. Being able to not have your life ruined afterwards is a big relief too. Just in case you have to defend yourself one day.


Its like reading the criminal the riot act.

"Because the authorities were required to read the proclamation that referred to the Riot Act before they could enforce it, the expression to read the riot act entered into common language as a phrase meaning "to reprimand severely", with the added sense of a stern warning. The phrase remains in everyday use in English. To this day many jurisdictions that have inherited the tradition of British Common Law still employ statutes that require police or other executive agents to deliver a verbal warning, much like the Riot Act, before an unlawful public assembly may be forcibly dispersed. See, e.g., California Penal Code § 726."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_Act

[Pandora-11]

Sorry Zeta. Love ya. Take some deep breaths. Let's talk guns.