Students file complaint against CU for campus gun ban

[DavidofColorado]

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, along with Mountain States Legal Foundation, has filed a complaint against Colorado University (including all of their campuses), claiming their campus ban on the carrying on concealed firearms for students, faculty and visitors is not legal and is dangerous to those who carry for self defense.


Link To the Complaint


Link to the background

[McVaaahhh]

I don't enjoy infringing on anybody's rights, but I'm thinking that the fewer guns on a college campus the better.

Really, 18-22 yr-olds do NOT need to be carrying guns to class/bars/frat parties

[Canuck]

I don't enjoy infringing on anybody's rights, but I'm thinking that the fewer guns on a college campus the better.

Really, 18-22 yr-olds do NOT need to be carrying guns to class/bars/frat parties

I agree. But what about the 32yo student, like myself. ;-)

[McVaaahhh]

I agree. But what about the 32yo student, like myself. ;-)

Your Canadian, so the only danger with you carrying would be you shooting yourself in the foot.

[PROFLYER]

Really, 18-22 yr-olds do NOT need to be carrying guns to class/bars/frat parties

This sort of ignorant thinking allows things like Virginia Tech to happen. Maybe you were a dumb ass frat 18-22 year old but that doesn't mean we all were. Also, you can't get one until you're 21. I have carried since I was 21 and have NEVER had any issues, EVER. I have friends who carry as well who also have NEVER had an issue. I dated girls whos fathers I shot with and they always told me that if anything were ever to "go down" they would hope their daughter was in my class. Also, you can't carry in a bar and be drunk. I know plenty of people who have no business carrying, and these are the people who won't do what it takes to get a permit anyway, so don't worry about it. Those of us who do know what it takes also understand the liability involved.


This ban is bullshit and CU is going to have to eat their words. I can carry at CSU and the sheriff has noted a few times that "CSU will never be a Virginia Tech." In case you failed to notice 1) criminals don't follow the law and 2) Since they don't, they'll take a gun (or a small arsenal) into a place where they KNOW they'll be unopposed. Now how much sense does that make??

[McVaaahhh]

And insulting me is supposed to accomplish what exactly?

I know plenty of people that carry and I have no problem with CCW or the 2nd ammendment or guns in general. I just think it's a bad idea to have guns on a college campus.

I went to CSU myself and IMHO the college campus is just not the right atmosphere for guns. Yes, there are college students that could handle it just fine, but I believe that the majority of them could not. These are the same kids who ride around with their helmet strapped to the side of their bike, and do keg stands. You really want them carrying?

Saying that allowing guns on campus would prevent another VT incident is just another 20/20 hindsight argument. Requiring body armor for all students would have prevented it as well...

This sort of ignorant thinking allows things like Virginia Tech to happen. Maybe you were a dumb ass frat 18-22 year old but that doesn't mean we all were. Also, you can't get one until you're 21. I have carried since I was 21 and have NEVER had any issues, EVER. I have friends who carry as well who also have NEVER had an issue. I dated girls whos fathers I shot with and they always told me that if anything were ever to "go down" they would hope their daughter was in my class. Also, you can't carry in a bar and be drunk. I know plenty of people who have no business carrying, and these are the people who won't do what it takes to get a permit anyway, so don't worry about it. Those of us who do know what it takes also understand the liability involved.


This ban is bullshit and CU is going to have to eat their words. I can carry at CSU and the sheriff has noted a few times that "CSU will never be a Virginia Tech." In case you failed to notice 1) criminals don't follow the law and 2) Since they don't, they'll take a gun (or a small arsenal) into a place where they KNOW they'll be unopposed. Now how much sense does that make??

[PROFLYER]

And insulting me is supposed to accomplish what exactly?

I know plenty of people that carry and I have no problem with CCW or the 2nd ammendment or guns in general. I just think it's a bad idea to have guns on a college campus.

I went to CSU myself and IMHO the college campus is just not the right atmosphere for guns. Yes, there are college students that could handle it just fine, but I believe that the majority of them could not. These are the same kids who ride around with their helmet strapped to the side of their bike, and do keg stands. You really want them carrying?

Saying that allowing guns on campus would prevent another VT incident is just another 20/20 hindsight argument. Requiring body armor for all students would have prevented it as well...

Speaking to the ignorance of your first post wasn't meant to be an insult, but how you feel is your problem.

Have your opinions, you're entitled to that, but carry states and places that allow permit holders to carry are safer places. When was the last time you saw a gun shop robbed? If 7-eleven allowed each clerk to carry in its stores armed robbers would skip them over and try the kum and go instead. Kids doing keg stands are not the type to make it through all the stuff it takes to carry, so worry not.

The point is, allowing law abiding citizens who have taken all the necessary steps to legally cary is a win for all involved. It creates safer establishments and I challenge you to find ONE case where someone who could legally carry went on a rampage. However, you can find MANY cases where someone who can legally carry stopped what could have been much worse. Think back to the church in the Springs last year, imagine if the lady hadn't shot that guy and he had made his way into the church where there were hundreds of people gathered....with 15 mags and an assault rifle. Does that mean we should ban assault rifles? Hardly, but it does prove that legal carry is the answer as we will never know how many people could have died.

[Sortarican]

... Think back to the church in the Springs last year, imagine if the lady hadn't shot that guy ..., but it does prove that legal carry is the answer as we will never know how many people could have died.

Not really a good example for your argument.
She was a member of the church's security staff. Not an average Joe with a CCW permit.
I don't think most people have a problem with having armed security on campus.

[McVaaahhh]

Speaking to the ignorance of your first post wasn't meant to be an insult, but how you feel is your problem.

Saying out loud that my opinion on a subject is a demonstration of ignorance is insulting.

...Carry states and places that allow permit holders to carry are safer places.

Says who? Point me to a study that says that Colorado is a safer state to live in BECAUSE you can get a ccw permit.

When was the last time you saw a gun shop robbed? If 7-eleven allowed each clerk to carry in its stores armed robbers would skip them over and try the kum and go instead.

I've seen plenty of video and read stories of convenience stores being robbed even with a gun within easy reach. The gun is only effective if you've got time to pull it.

Kids doing keg stands are not the type to make it through all the stuff it takes to carry, so worry not.

So what you're saying is that EVERYONE that gets a CCW permit is an angel and would NEVER EVER pull that gun at an inappropriate time? If you really believe that, than you're pointing the ignorant finger at the wrong person.

Maybe this was inappropriate:
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/262399.php

Another brain surgeon with a ccw

http://www.ohiovalleypolitics.com/20...carry-permits/

Man arrested on drug charges with a CCW
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/orla...6MJ2OR4BNAE0KJ

The point is, allowing law abiding citizens who have taken all the necessary steps to legally cary is a win for all involved. It creates safer establishments and I challenge you to find ONE case where someone who could legally carry went on a rampage. However, you can find MANY cases where someone who can legally carry stopped what could have been much worse.

I am NOT debating CCW at all. It is simply my opinion that college students should not have guns in school classrooms. By your logic we should allow high school students to carry guns. Shit, that might have stopped Columbine. How about the elementary school students that went on a rampage. Maybe we should allow 3rd graders to carry?

I believe that guns (concealed or otherwise) have no business being carried by students in any school.

...Think back to the church in the Springs last year, imagine if the lady hadn't shot that guy and he had made his way into the church where there were hundreds of people gathered....with 15 mags and an assault rifle. Does that mean we should ban assault rifles? Hardly, but it does prove that legal carry is the answer as we will never know how many people could have died.

No, armed security guards were the answer in that case. Don't ever call me ignorant.

[Devaclis]

Wow, I am really torn on this one.

Is it a government building? Campus? Can you carry on any government campus or in any government building? Has the ability to carry at this school ever been an issue? If not, then why the change? Pro-active fear mongering is still fear mongering.

What if one of them shoots us?

What if someone gets ahold of their gun and goes nuts?

Well.....

What if someone chokes to death on the dime bag you just sold them?

What if a new student, who is allergic to patchouli, dies in your dorm room?

What if you get strangled with a flannel shirt?

Man, I think we should outlaw everything, make you stay in your green home with your hypoallergenic furniture and your monitored internet/tv and just let everyone else but YOU decide what is safe for YOU. That make you feel all good and fuzzy?

[puckstr]

[DavidofColorado]

I look at it as a legal issue that needs to be resolved. If you ignore all the fear mongering and evil stigmas that you have been force fed about guns and just look at it as a right not being recognized it makes it a no brainer.

Its just a stubborn administrator that has a little bit of power and is used to getting their way. Think about it like segregation in the schools in the south. They need to keep an open mind.

[Nick_Ninja]

I work at CU and I'm here to tell you that the general student population here shouldn't be allowed to carry water pistols yet alone real firearms. These kids are supposed to be our front-line to compete with the Chinese and Indians? I don't think they could pass the test with the help of Sylvan Learning Centers.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I work at CU and I'm here to tell you that the general student population here shouldn't be allowed to carry water pistols yet alone real firearms. These kids are supposed to be our front-line to compete with the Chinese and Indians? I don't think they could pass the test with the help of Sylvan Learning Centers.

C'mon Jeff, remember, it's Boulder. I mean, beside carrying water pistols, y'all shouldn't have been allowed to vote either......

[puckstr]

C'mon Jeff, remember, it's Boulder. I mean, beside carrying water BONGS, y'all shouldn't have been allowed to vote either......

Fixed it for ya

[Nick_Ninja]

C'mon Jeff, remember, it's Boulder. I mean, beside carrying water pistols, y'all shouldn't have been allowed to vote either......

Don't get all jealousy about the fact that I am a member of the winning team ------ and can kick yo ass at foosball ------ with one hand on the bong

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Don't get all jealousy about the fact that I am a member of the winning team ------ and can kick yo ass at foosball ------ with one hand on the bong

Congratulating you on being on the winning political team is like congratulating the "winner" that got the chamber with the round in it in a game of Russian Roulette!

......and you can have the bong back when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers!

Great seeing you guys this weekend!

[McVaaahhh]

[Pandora-11]

I have a 19 year freshman on the CU campus (although she lives in a condo off campus). I do not want the general population carrying weapons. They are not ready for this kind of action. Immaturity and drunken parties is a recipe for disaster!
I want the police and security to protect the students, not other students.

[wulf]

I have a 19 year freshman on the CU campus (although she lives in a condo off campus). I do not want the general population carrying weapons. They are not ready for this kind of action. Immaturity and drunken parties is a recipe for disaster!
I want the police and security to protect the students, not other students.

So what do you think of some irresponsible places like the Marine Corps? i mean they don't just give them pistols, they give them machine guns!

Most people don't realize that the average gun owner here on CSC shoots more each year than the average cop.

[Pandora-11]

So what do you think of some irresponsible places like the Marine Corps? i mean they don't just give them pistols, they give them machine guns!

I know...it's frightening. Wish we didn't have to use our youth this way.

[wulf]

Pandora,

If you like poetry, listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u67l7EaJRU

You are a sheep. You fight against us, you dislike what we do, but when truly needed like the lady in the church security team, we spring up.

There are several cases of deranged gunman who were stopped by normal people with the sheepdog mentality.


Most take the opportunity to point out my nickname at this point which is part of a different analogy

"Men cannot be governed and remain men. Domesticate the wolf and he changes both physically and mentally. His muzzle shrinks, his teeth diminish, he loses size, speed, and strength, He grows spots. His ears flop. His brain withers. He becomes a dog. Men are on the verge of becoming dogs -- the changes are underway already -- unless we do something to stop it." L. Neil Smith

[Pandora-11]

Pandora,

If you like poetry, listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u67l7EaJRU

You are a sheep. You fight against us, you dislike what we do, but when truly needed like the lady in the church security team, we spring up.

There are several cases of deranged gunman who were stopped by normal people with the sheepdog mentality.


Most take the opportunity to point out my nickname at this point which is part of a different analogy

You're missing my point...I'm certainly NOT a sheep. I'm an instructor...I just don't want guns in the classroom... but I'm pro-gun. If someone came into my classroom, I'm prepared to take a bullet for one of my kids....
How does this make me a sheep? because I disagree with you?
Lovely poetry. Do you do haiku?

[DavidofColorado]

I know...it's frightening. Wish we didn't have to use our youth this way.

Its not frightening. And the youth do their duty and never once take the time to feel sorry for themselves. I can't believe that they protect the rights of those that spit in their faces and never think twice about it.

I am a little less disciplined.