Students file complaint against CU for campus gun ban

[Sortarican]

Maybe not the students under 21, but what about the 9000+ faculty members and 20000+ support staff and researchers?

I could support faculty carrying, even in high schools.

[BlueDevil]

I could support faculty carrying, even in high schools.

eeeeek now you got me on a side on that one. HAHA Students can take half the highschool teachers when I was in highschool even if they were carrying. then U just put a weapon in an actual childs hand in a school full of children... Yikes I cant hang with ya on that one.. but maybe college level.. ehhh maybe not.. ahhh Im stuck still

[Sortarican]

eeeeek now you got me on a side on that one. HAHA Students can take half the highschool teachers when I was in highschool even if they were carrying...

Maybe just the gym teachers in high school then.

[BlueDevil]

Maybe just the gym teachers in high school then.

Sir is that a gun in your gym shorts?

[DavidofColorado]

... Its cool to debate, hell its half the fun of the internet (porn being the other half hehe)

Tee Hee.

as well as being a gun owner, I can see both sides and why being allowed to participate in the privilege awarded to you legally to carry your gun, should be upheld. Having been 18-21 years old once I also can respect the opinions of "the whippersnappers" being reckless, impulsive, and the risk for NON self protective violence to increase.

Alex: How can you tell when someones real feelings about guns are about to be spoken.

At the moment guns have absolutely NO place in ANY school. Simply .. they dont. If you have you papers or not..

Correct... I was right your statement is wrong.

None the less times have changed, and like was mentioned earlier, the bad guys dont seem to follow those rules and to date we dont have any such way of preventing them from bringing the guns that kill our children onto the campus, and it seems making the world have no crazy's in it seems an impossible task.. so where does that leave us?

Say that you don't want anybody but the police to have guns for self protection to someone that has played out that scenario (Luby's Cafateria). Or when they ask you to ID your kids body. They see if you are as smug about just being PC and not having guns period.

Perhaps if a "bad guy" thought everyone on campus was packing, they might not bing a gun.. though if they are a true crazy, it wouldnt matter to them anyway. Hell so far most have wanted to die anyway and are ok to do so as long as they take some out with them. How do we fix this BEFORE it happens? Do all entrances and campuses get metal detectors at every door and armed gards roaming campus? Do we want to go to school in a place like that (and pay to do it) ? hell I just dont know..

Let the guy going to school to be a cop with a CCW carry. Its free and we don't have to have a campus look more like a reeducation camp.

Unfortunately, I’m not yet convinced of which side I sit on this fence, so Ill sit up here for a while longer and toss pebbles a bit longer at those of you tossin boulders.. Id love to continue reading this discussion, yet when I see insults and childish bashing, I begin to lose interest quickly and venture on back to the porn side of the internet...

Which site are you going to? Just in case they have chat I don't want to end up cybering with you.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I love this topic and have been on the fence for some time about it. Pretty much since V Tech. It’s nice to see all the points of view about it, though I’m not sure why anyone insults the other for their view. Its cool to debate, hell its half the fun of the internet (porn being the other half hehe) but if you simply toss out insults why would anyone continue to debate or discuss with you?? A little quote comes to mind... Fighting on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics... Even if you win, your still retarded"

Anyway, having recently summed up my college career, and being on campus when V Tech was happening, as well as being a gun owner, I can see both sides and why being allowed to participate in the privilege awarded to you legally to carry your gun, should be upheld. Having been 18-21 years old once I also can respect the opinions of "the whippersnappers" being reckless, impulsive, and the risk for NON self protective violence to increase.

At the moment guns have absolutely NO place in ANY school. Simply .. they dont. If you have you papers or not.. None the less times have changed, and like was mentioned earlier, the bad guys dont seem to follow those rules and to date we dont have any such way of preventing them from bringing the guns that kill our children onto the campus, and it seems making the world have no crazy's in it seems an impossible task.. so where does that leave us? Perhaps if a "bad guy" thought everyone on campus was packing, they might not bing a gun.. though if they are a true crazy, it wouldnt matter to them anyway. Hell so far most have wanted to die anyway and are ok to do so as long as they take some out with them. How do we fix this BEFORE it happens? Do all entrances and campuses get metal detectors at every door and armed gards roaming campus? Do we want to go to school in a place like that (and pay to do it) ? hell I just dont know..

Unfortunately, I’m not yet convinced of which side I sit on this fence, so Ill sit up here for a while longer and toss pebbles a bit longer at those of you tossin boulders.. Id love to continue reading this discussion, yet when I see insults and childish bashing, I begin to lose interest quickly and venture on back to the porn side of the internet...

Guns, being carried by RESPONSIBLE, mature people absolutely DO have a place in society, and in schools. It's not just the deterrent factor, it's that someone can return fire and kill the gunman. Or if not kill them, at least keep them pinned down and neutralized until the SWAT team can get the guy. That woman in the church shooting returned fire and stopped the carnage, even though the guy ended up shooting himself, she still got him to do it because he realized the gig was up. The VT tragedy could have been avoided if one of the intended victims had been carrying and knew how to return fire.

[The Black Knight]

Nobody gives a rats ass what you think. Take another vacation.

HAHAHA!!

well Mr. Nobody, I wouldn't give a bucket of piss for your thoughts either. However, you do make me laugh.

[Speedwagon]

Just so we all have a reference, this is 1996 to present:

Feb. 2, 1996
Moses Lake, Wash. Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.
March 13, 1996
Dunblane, Scotland 16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.
Feb. 19, 1997
Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.
March 1997
Sanaa, Yemen Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.
Oct. 1, 1997
Pearl, Miss. Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.
Dec. 1, 1997
West Paducah, Ky. Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.
Dec. 15, 1997
Stamps, Ark. Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot.
March 24, 1998
Jonesboro, Ark. Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods.
April 24, 1998
Edinboro, Pa. One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.
May 19, 1998
Fayetteville, Tenn. One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis.
May 21, 1998
Springfield, Ore. Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.
June 15, 1998
Richmond, Va. One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway.
April 20, 1999
Littleton, Colo. 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School in the nation's deadliest school shooting. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.
April 28, 1999
Taber, Alberta, Canada One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years. The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.
May 20, 1999
Conyers, Ga. Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.
Nov. 19, 1999
Deming, N.M. Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.
Dec. 6, 1999
Fort Gibson, Okla. Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.
Dec. 7, 1999
Veghel, Netherlands One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.
Feb. 29, 2000
Mount Morris Township, Mich. Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.
March 2000
Branneburg, Germany One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.
March 10, 2000
Savannah, Ga. Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School.
May 26, 2000
Lake Worth, Fla. One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.
Sept. 26, 2000
New Orleans, La. Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.
Jan. 17, 2001
Baltimore, Md. One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.
Jan. 18, 2001
Jan, Sweden One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.
March 5, 2001
Santee, Calif. Two killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School.
March 7, 2001
Williamsport, Pa. Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.
March 22, 2001
Granite Hills, Calif. One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman.
March 30, 2001
Gary, Ind. One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School.
Nov. 12, 2001
Caro, Mich. Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.
Jan. 15, 2002
New York, N.Y. A teenager wounded two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School.
Feb. 19, 2002
Freising, Germany Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.
April 26, 2002
Erfurt, Germany 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.
April 29, 2002
Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.
October 28, 2002
Tucson, Ariz. Robert S. Flores Jr., 41, a student at the nursing school at the University of Arizona, shot and killed three female professors and then himself.
April 14, 2003
New Orleans, La. One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related.
April 24, 2003
Red Lion, Pa. James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself.
Sept. 24, 2003
Cold Spring, Minn. Two students are killed at Rocori High School by John Jason McLaughlin, 15.
Sept. 28, 2004
Carmen de Patagones, Argentina Three students killed and 6 wounded by a 15-year-old Argentininan student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires.
March 21, 2005
Red Lake, Minn. Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.
Nov. 8, 2005
Jacksboro, Tenn. One 15-year-old shot and killed an assistant principal at Campbell County High School and seriously wounded two other administrators.
Aug. 24, 2006
Essex, Vt. Christopher Williams, 27, looking for his ex-girlfriend at Essex Elementary School, shot two teachers, killing one and wounding another. Before going to the school, he had killed the ex-girlfriend's mother.
Sept. 13, 2006
Montreal, Canada Kimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students and faculty were wounded before Gill killed himself.
Sept. 27, 2006
Bailey, Colo. Adult male held six students hostage at Platte Canyon High School and then shot and killed Emily Keyes, 16, and himself.
Sept. 29, 2006
Cazenovia, Wis. A 15-year-old student shot and killed Weston School principal John Klang.
Oct. 3, 2006
Nickel Mines, Pa. 32-year-old Carl Charles Roberts IV entered the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School and shot 10 schoolgirls, ranging in age from 6 to 13 years old, and then himself. Five of the girls and Roberts died.
Jan. 3, 2007
Tacoma, Wash. Douglas Chanthabouly, 18, shot fellow student Samnang Kok, 17, in the hallway of Henry Foss High School.
April 16, 2007
Blacksburg, Va. A 23-year-old Virginia Tech student, Cho Seung-Hui, killed two in a dorm, then killed 30 more 2 hours later in a classroom building. His suicide brought the death toll to 33, making the shooting rampage the most deadly in U.S. history. Fifteen others were wounded.
Sept. 21, 2007
Dover, Del. A Delaware State Univesity Freshman, Loyer D. Brandon, shot and wounded two other Freshman students on the University campus. Brandon is being charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless engagement, as well as a gun charge.
Oct. 10, 2007
Cleveland, Ohio A 14-year-old student at a Cleveland high school, Asa H. Coon, shot and injured two students and two teachers before he shot and killed himself. The victims' injuries were not life-threatening.
Nov. 7, 2007
Tuusula, Finland An 18-year-old student in southern Finland shot and killed five boys, two girls, and the female principal at Jokela High School. At least 10 others were injured. The gunman shot himself and died from his wounds in the hospital.
Feb. 8, 2008
Baton Rouge, Louisiana A nursing student shot and killed two women and then herself in a classroom at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge.
Feb. 11, 2008
Memphis, Tennessee A 17-year-old student at Mitchell High School shot and wounded a classmate in gym class.
Feb. 12, 2008
Oxnard, California A 14-year-old boy shot a student at E.O. Green Junior High School causing the 15-year-old victim to be brain dead.

[Speedwagon]

Continued:

Feb. 14, 2008
DeKalb, Illinois Gunman kills five students and then himself, and wounds 17 more when he opens fire on a classroom at Northern Illinois University. The gunman, Stephen P. Kazmierczak, was identified as a former graduate student at the university in 2007.
Sept. 23, 2008
Kauhajoki, Finland A 20-year-old male student shot and killed at least nine students and himself at a vocational college in Kauhajok, 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki.
Nov. 12, 2008
Fort Lauderdale, Florida A 15-year-old female student was shot and killed by a classmate at at Dillard High School in Fort Lauderdale.

School shootings are more common than most might think.

[zetaetatheta]

Continued:


School shootings are more common than most might think.

Not common at all. If you take the number if students going to school daily that do not get shot, you will see that children dying at school is a very small percent. One is more likely to win the lottery than to die in a school shooting. Take the same period and count the number of motorcycle fatalities and see that school is a much safer place than on a motorcycle. Chicken little syndrome.

[BlueDevil]

Not common at all. If you take the number if students going to school daily that do not get shot, you will see that children dying at school is a very small percent. One is more likely to win the lottery than to die in a school shooting. Take the same period and count the number of motorcycle fatalities and see that school is a much safer place than on a motorcycle. Chicken little syndrome.

slippery slope on that one.. 1 shooting is to many...

[BlueDevil]

Thats the whole thing, I dont know a side to take. Im also someone who was shot 6 times with an AK-47 not 100 feet from my highschool in 1993. I was only 16 and was not carrying (obviosly) so I can sympothize with both sides still. When the Doc told me at the time, I may not walk again, believe me I wish I had been able to get my own street justice. The bad thing is at the time, they tested me to see if I had shot any weapons in the incident and as things played out, if I had a weapon at the time, I would have been seen just as guilty as the guys who pulled the drive by on ME... Even if I was defending myself.

People ask me how I can be a gun owner much less want my CCW license after being shot myself.. they dont seem to get it. But in my own personal view, I decided long ago I would not be the victim again. If someone shoots, or comes in my home, they wont live another day to tell about it.

As I still dont have a side yet on being allowed to carry a weapon on a school campus, I do tend to lean toward being allowed to. However, I do see more than a few valid reason NOT to be allowed to. Believe me this hits me directly too, my wife and I are planning a family in the very near future and these are fears I will soon need to confront head on as my child heads off to school each day.

[puckstr]

Not common at all. If you take the number if students going to school daily that do not get shot, you will see that children dying at school is a very small percent. One is more likely to win the lottery than to die in a school shooting. Take the same period and count the number of motorcycle fatalities and see that school is a much safer place than on a motorcycle. Chicken little syndrome.

Tell that to the parents of the slain students. I don't think they would agree with you.

But that is no problem for you because you will charge a gunman.

[zetaetatheta]

Tell that to the parents of the slain students. I don't think they would agree with you.

But that is no problem for you because you will charge a gunman.

My point is schools are one of the safest places your kids could ever be, even safer than home. I'm not the only teacher that would charge a gunman either. I've been in harm's way and stared down the barrel of a gun, I know how I would react--do you? Other than shitting your pants.

[puckstr]

My point is schools are one of the safest places your kids could ever be, even safer than home. I'm not the only teacher that would charge a gunman either. I've been in harm's way and stared down the barrel of a gun, I know how I would react--do you? Other than shitting your pants.

I have been on the wrong end of a gun twice, not a fun place. No I did not shit my pants. Unlike you I can not deflect bullets. You must be smoking some kick ass shit.

It must be hard for you to function in life with such a Bloated ego and balls larger than a buick.

[zetaetatheta]

I have been on the wrong end of a gun twice, not a fun place. No I did not shit my pants. Unlike you I can not deflect bullets. You must be smoking some kick ass shit.

It must be hard for you to function in life with such a Bloated ego and balls larger than a buick.

All I know is a good teacher will protect their students as if they were there on children, you can call it what you want. The parents of my students know I will protect them at all costs. If you feel safer with a gun by all means carry one, I on the other hand feel pretty safe without one, plus it allows me to travel so I am not a slave to a chunk of metal. There will never be guns allowed in school--period.

[BlueDevil]

All I know is a good teacher will protect their students as if they were there on children, you can call it what you want. The parents of my students know I will protect them at all costs.

You are in fact a rare breed. This is not the norm. Most teachers or any person in that matter, when faced by a gun or gunman who is shooting, would simply run like hell or hide. Im not deffending anyone but Im sure all parents wish/hope there are more of you at their childrens schools..

Just a personal experience: Ive had a gun pointed at me 3 times in my life. Every time I was unarmed. Once I was shot 6 times before i even knew I had been shot. The other 2 times I, as you mentioned, "shit myself" and froze. Luckily those turned into idle threats and the gunmen walked away with no damage done. Lastly I was 16yrs old or under every time. I ask you why the hell does any child of that age need to know what it feels like to look down a gun barrel much less how it feels to be shot? sigh.... (That Q may be off topic a smidge.. sorry bout that. )


Side bar: Are we still bashing eachother ? Can you give eachother a rub and tug so we can get on with this discussion ?

[puckstr]

All I know is a good teacher will protect their students as if they were there on children, you can call it what you want. The parents of my students know I will protect them at all costs. If you feel safer with a gun by all means carry one, I on the other hand feel pretty safe without one, plus it allows me to travel so I am not a slave to a chunk of metal. There will never be guns allowed in school--period.

I am basing my opinion on every teacher I have ever had. Sorry for grouping you in that category.

I will carry, but my school days are long over. I feel that gun violence in schools will continue to increase and laws restricting there presence on campus will never stop a sociopath on a murder benge.

Side bar I get really pissy at Christmas. Stupid Christmas

[BlueDevil]

I feel that gun violence in schools will continue to increase and laws restricting there presence on campus will never stop a sociopath on a murder benge.

Sad but true....

[Pandora-11]

I think most teachers become teachers because of their love and willingness to be there for kids. I haven't really ever been in front of a gun. In fact I've rarely even seen one up close. They've never been part of my world. I'd like to think I'd take a bullet. I've certainly held kids throwing up on me without flinching, jumped in front of cars to push them out of the way, faced down abusive parents, but in the end what I'd do is an unknown. In a kidnap situation, I know I'd take a child's spot. Hope it never happens, but it is the world we live in.
On a second note, daughter came home from CU yesterday. She mentioned the 6 sexual assaults not a result of intoxication. She said apparently an older man is assaulting girls from the campus. She carries the same pepper spray that i carry on her key chain, but she has also been trained to take down an assailant. Her boyfriend has taken her to shoot at a gun club. She wonders why we don't have a gun and would like one as she is off campus. Boy!! This really throws off my theories. She just asked for a gun for Christmas. What a dilemma....We talked about not having it on campus and she is agreeing with those of you wanting concealed guns on campus. geezzz....
We will go shooting over the holidays.

[Tipys]

If those were all the shootings over the last 12 years that have happened schools make it not very common thing that happens.. What's probly more likely to happen at a college is either being hit by a drunk driver or being a drunk driver. And adding guns isn't going to mix well with drinking.

[Pandora-11]

Proflyer,
She said the pike house was full of roaches and that the guys were into date rape. Ha.

[Devaclis]

What does that listing have to do with CCW being allowed at CSU? I cannot make the connection. The ONLY thing I can think of is the fact that all of those crimes were comited with guns and CCW holders MIGHT have guns with them. Is there info on weather or not any of the 16,13,15,18 year old kids had a CCW? Of oucrse not, they can't. What about the adults?

While informative, I thik that post was kind of useless in the argument for or against allowing CCW at CSU.

(wow, look at Dana trying to keep shit on topic!!)

[Devaclis]

Proflyer,
She said the pike house was full of roaches and that the guys were into date rape. Ha.

If that is the case why is the health board and the police not over there right now? Did you call the cops? If my daughter told me that about ANY place she had been you can bet your ass I would not take it lightly.