Students file complaint against CU for campus gun ban

[DavidofColorado]

It is against the law already, but that law dosen't seem to work either

But what if we make it really, really against the law. Like even make it punishable by death couldn't we do that instead of banning guns from the law abiding?

[Pandora-11]

Not minor to the kids that get touched in there naughty places, by men of the cloth.

More kids have been violated by clergy than people being shot in church. The real threat is the lecherous "holy" men.

I didn't say it was minor to the kids it happens to....I said it was minor in its occurrence. I've also had relatives molested in this way...and it's not minor...it just doesn't happen as often as one would think by church authority. It's just a larger violation when it happens by church authority.

[Foolds]

It was said earlier: people that are going to committ crimes will do so regardless of laws & restrictions.

The concern is that the presence of a gun allows a situation to escalate very quickly. Vigilantyism is also a concern. The level of responsibility that college kids exhibit, at large, does not seem to merit their possessing a CCW permit.

However, there are exceptions to the rule. The process that someone has to go through to posess a CCW permit is, I'm sure, extensive and not something that the average drunken frat kid is likely to do in a weekend to avoid a term paper. A firearm is not cheap and neither is the CCW permit. Part of maturing is understanding and accepting responsibility. Owning a firearm and being able to conceal it is truely a weighty responsibility, but not so much that our university students cannot handle it. Any fool that would take a weapon into his/her own hands and use it frivolously is just as likely to find something equally as destructive and put it to poor use, a car for instance.

Do the weapons really have a place on a college campus? No.

Should someone be banned & prosecuted for posessing an otherwise legal weapon on a college campus? Of course not.

The asterisk to this whole conversation, however, is that the university is an entity unto itself and, thus, perfectly allowed to choose to whom they will or will not offer admission or continuation of college credit.

Do legal trained and certified persons with weapons have a place on college campuses?

[puckstr]

Again..
More kids have been violated by clergy than people being shot in church.

[TFOGGuys]

Not sure I'm catching your point.
Are you saying you think the the church would not have had armed security without the current relaxed CCW rules?

It used to be that a person had to show need to carry, now the permitting body has to show a reason why an applicant should not be granted a permit.
But someone working security (even volunteer security at a church) never had trouble showing cause for getting a permit.
And I'm not sure a CCW permit is even required to carry a concealed weapon in a private place.
That is if it's your place or if you're given permission by the company/institution/owner to do so.
Anyone know the laws on that?

You are correct: No permit is required to carry in a place of business or the area under it's immediate control, with the permission of the business owner.

In some counties(Denver) prior to the current CCW law, permits were virtually impossible to obtain, armed security licenses were available for cause, but required open carry, and prohibited carry when not on duty.

[MetaLord 9]

Do legal trained and certified persons with weapons have a place on college campuses?

The people do. Independently, do the weapons? Nope. This being an imperfect world, should those who are legally trained & certified be allowed to have those weapons? Yep.

Separately,
Protecting our children is one thing, but at the age of 21, when do we go from "protecting our children from harm" to "protecting our citizens from themselves?" The question of whether or not an individual, regardless of age, is capable of exhibiting the responsibility, maturity, and self-restraint requried in owning a firearm and a CCW permit, is one that is determined by the CCW permit process. If we take issue with who has one, then we should look not to the organizations/entities banning the weapons alltogether, but, instead, at the process invovled in granting the legal permits to do carry those weapons.

[Devaclis]

Back at the debate at hand (Gun ban not religion)

[puckstr]

Debate guns not god....Guns are REAL


Are chain saws allowed on campus?

[Devaclis]

what about a potato "launcher"?

[Devaclis]

If they are gonna classify guns as objects that fire projectiles then my ass would get arrested the moment i walked on campus.

[DavidofColorado]

If they are gonna classify guns as objects that fire projectiles then my ass would get arrested the moment i walked on campus.

Ditto, my ass would get banned under the explosive device clause. I would have to have the bomb squad called out every time I farted.

[puckstr]

If they are gonna classify guns as objects that fire projectiles then my ass would get arrested the moment i walked on campus.

Biological weapon

[Foolds]

The people do. Independently, do the weapons? Nope. This being an imperfect world, should those who are legally trained & certified be allowed to have those weapons? Yep.

Separately,
Protecting our children is one thing, but at the age of 21, when do we go from "protecting our children from harm" to "protecting our citizens from themselves?" The question of whether or not an individual, regardless of age, is capable of exhibiting the responsibility, maturity, and self-restraint requried in owning a firearm and a CCW permit, is one that is determined by the CCW permit process. If we take issue with who has one, then we should look not to the organizations/entities banning the weapons alltogether, but, instead, at the process invovled in granting the legal permits to do carry those weapons.

So a Police officer has no place carrying a firearm on a college campus is what you are saying?

[MetaLord 9]

JJ, you can stop trying to put words in my mouth any day now! What I said was that independently (and ideally) guns don't really have a place/use on a college campus. It's not an ideal world, however, so should they be allowed to someone legally certified to have one? Yep.

To date, we've only been talking about students and non-law enforcement carrying firearms on a college campus. I find a law enforcement officer without a sidearm to be as effective as a dog with no teeth: all bark with little threat of bite.

[DavidofColorado]

JJ, you can stop trying to put words in my mouth any day now! What I said was that independently (and ideally) guns don't really have a place/use on a college campus. It's not an ideal world, however, so should they be allowed to someone legally certified to have one? Yep.

To date, we've only been talking about students and non-law enforcement carrying firearms on a college campus. I find a law enforcement officer without a sidearm to be as effective as a dog with no teeth: all bark with little threat of bite.

He was baiting you on that. I saw it. You walked right into it. But why do you think we need a double standard? Is it because you don't think the students could handle it? Or do you think that the police are going to be there every time? I would like know what you think?

[InlineSIX24]

I would be all for teachers and guards who had been through some training carrying. I'm torn on allowing the students based on some of the brain function voids going on there. To me it seems that depending on the police is not always realistic. Its like depending on the government to pay your bills. The cops will not always be able to get there in time to stop what could have been addressed by someone who was on-site.

[dirkterrell]

You are truly safe no where....part of living...and unfortunately dying.

Which is precisely why law abiding citizens should never be denied their right to self-defense.

Dirk

[puckstr]

I would be all for teachers and guards who had been through some training carrying. I'm torn on allowing the students based on some of the brain function voids going on there. To me it seems that depending on the police is not always realistic. Its like depending on the government to pay your bills. The cops will not always be able to get there in time to stop what could have been addressed by someone who was on-site.

Unless you get an over zealous teacher that busts a cap in your ass for using LINUX

[MetaLord 9]

But why do you think we need a double standard? Is it because you don't think the students could handle it? Or do you think that the police are going to be there every time? I would like know what you think?

It's not "walking right into it" because it's not a double standard. Law enforcement officers should absolutely be allowed to carry a firearm as they are allowed privileges outside the normal requirements for everyday citizens in order to neutralize those who choose to stray outside the aforementioned boundaries.

Concerning whether or not I think students are capable of exhibiting the neccessary maturity & restraint to hold a CCW permit, I refer you to my earlier posts which state that it's the responsibility of the CCW permit process to ensure that, not me.

You see to be misreading or half-reading my posts here. I am advocating being able to carry your firearm on a college campus, should you be a licesensed firearm owner with a valid CCW permit. Perhaps where you're misunderstanding me is where I mention that, in a perfect world, would there ever be a use or necessity of a firearm on a college campus? Of course not! Is this a perfect world? Of couse not! Therefore, you should be able to follow my statements to the conclusion that legally carrying a concealed firearm should be allowed. Your inability to grant the premise of "in a perfect world" seems to be what's holding back your understanding of my point.

Addressing your last point, and acknowledging that this is indeed NOT a perfect world, do I think that a law enforcement officer will always be available to step in and rescue the situation from ruin? Absolutely not. In situations of desparation, I would be greatful to either have a firearm at my disposal or the disposal of someone else in the room who is proficient in its operation. Does the danger of doling out a 1000 dollar punishment for a 5 buck crime exist when a firearm is present (on either side of the situation)? Yes. Is it likely, providing that the firearm's operator is trained/licesensed, and using it to ensure the saftey of others? No it's not likely to happen.

[Pandora-11]

Debate guns not god....Guns are REAL


Are chain saws allowed on campus?

This is hugely offensive! Might you add IMHO.

[Nick_Ninja]

C'mon Jeff, remember, it's Boulder. I mean, beside carrying water pistols, y'all shouldn't have been allowed to vote either......

Don't get all jealousy about the fact that I am a member of the winning team ------ and can kick yo ass at foosball ------ with one hand on the bong

[Pandora-11]

Which is precisely why law abiding citizens should never be denied their right to self-defense.

Dirk

Exactly..and I would agree with you, but not in the hands of babes. They aren't any more able to handle this than a 5 year old. Is Metalord the only one here who makes any sense on this issue?

[MetaLord 9]

Exactly..and I would agree with you, but not in the hands of babes. They aren't any more able to handle this than a 5 year old. Is Metalord the only one here who makes any sense on this issue?

...you do realize that I'm advocating that the guns be allowed on campus if the student has a CCW permit, right?

[puckstr]

This is hugely offensive! Might you add IMHO.

Yes chain saws are offensive