"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." Thomas Jefferson
I didn't say it was minor to the kids it happens to....I said it was minor in its occurrence. I've also had relatives molested in this way...and it's not minor...it just doesn't happen as often as one would think by church authority. It's just a larger violation when it happens by church authority.
Again..
More kids have been violated by clergy than people being shot in church.
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You are correct: No permit is required to carry in a place of business or the area under it's immediate control, with the permission of the business owner.
In some counties(Denver) prior to the current CCW law, permits were virtually impossible to obtain, armed security licenses were available for cause, but required open carry, and prohibited carry when not on duty.
Thanks, Jim
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The people do. Independently, do the weapons? Nope. This being an imperfect world, should those who are legally trained & certified be allowed to have those weapons? Yep.
Separately,
Protecting our children is one thing, but at the age of 21, when do we go from "protecting our children from harm" to "protecting our citizens from themselves?" The question of whether or not an individual, regardless of age, is capable of exhibiting the responsibility, maturity, and self-restraint requried in owning a firearm and a CCW permit, is one that is determined by the CCW permit process. If we take issue with who has one, then we should look not to the organizations/entities banning the weapons alltogether, but, instead, at the process invovled in granting the legal permits to do carry those weapons.
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Back at the debate at hand (Gun ban not religion)
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Debate guns not god....Guns are REAL
Are chain saws allowed on campus?
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what about a potato "launcher"?
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If they are gonna classify guns as objects that fire projectiles then my ass would get arrested the moment i walked on campus.
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"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." Thomas Jefferson
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JJ, you can stop trying to put words in my mouth any day now! What I said was that independently (and ideally) guns don't really have a place/use on a college campus. It's not an ideal world, however, so should they be allowed to someone legally certified to have one? Yep.
To date, we've only been talking about students and non-law enforcement carrying firearms on a college campus. I find a law enforcement officer without a sidearm to be as effective as a dog with no teeth: all bark with little threat of bite.
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He was baiting you on that. I saw it. You walked right into it. But why do you think we need a double standard? Is it because you don't think the students could handle it? Or do you think that the police are going to be there every time? I would like know what you think?
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." Thomas Jefferson
I would be all for teachers and guards who had been through some training carrying. I'm torn on allowing the students based on some of the brain function voids going on there. To me it seems that depending on the police is not always realistic. Its like depending on the government to pay your bills. The cops will not always be able to get there in time to stop what could have been addressed by someone who was on-site.
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"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
--Thomas Jefferson
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It's not "walking right into it" because it's not a double standard. Law enforcement officers should absolutely be allowed to carry a firearm as they are allowed privileges outside the normal requirements for everyday citizens in order to neutralize those who choose to stray outside the aforementioned boundaries.
Concerning whether or not I think students are capable of exhibiting the neccessary maturity & restraint to hold a CCW permit, I refer you to my earlier posts which state that it's the responsibility of the CCW permit process to ensure that, not me.
You see to be misreading or half-reading my posts here. I am advocating being able to carry your firearm on a college campus, should you be a licesensed firearm owner with a valid CCW permit. Perhaps where you're misunderstanding me is where I mention that, in a perfect world, would there ever be a use or necessity of a firearm on a college campus? Of course not! Is this a perfect world? Of couse not! Therefore, you should be able to follow my statements to the conclusion that legally carrying a concealed firearm should be allowed. Your inability to grant the premise of "in a perfect world" seems to be what's holding back your understanding of my point.
Addressing your last point, and acknowledging that this is indeed NOT a perfect world, do I think that a law enforcement officer will always be available to step in and rescue the situation from ruin? Absolutely not. In situations of desparation, I would be greatful to either have a firearm at my disposal or the disposal of someone else in the room who is proficient in its operation. Does the danger of doling out a 1000 dollar punishment for a 5 buck crime exist when a firearm is present (on either side of the situation)? Yes. Is it likely, providing that the firearm's operator is trained/licesensed, and using it to ensure the saftey of others? No it's not likely to happen.
Last edited by MetaLord 9; Mon Dec 15th, 2008 at 12:42 PM.
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