Student suspended for fake guns

[fullgrownbear]

You know, there's a big difference between the "spirit of the law", and the "letter of the law". This is a good example of a grotesque inability to differentiate between the two.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.as...9380&catid=188

[Speedwagon]

I just wrote an email to thier principal. If enough do it, they might get the message.

http://www.cths.ccsd.k12.co.us/documents/admin.html

Absolutely disgraceful that they handled it that way.

[Dietrich_R1]

According to the letter of the "Law" which does not discriminate.... My finger can be the shape of a gun so that means & would be kicked out????????? WTF!

That's settled... My 2 year old is going to apply for her CCW this week!!!!!

Now the next question... Are there any charter schools that allow students to carry guns/weapons/teach self defense/military operations in their primary courses?????

Shit... I had a small arsenal of weapons in my room when I was in the 3rd grade & I haven't done any wrong! Sorry folks... You're just a terrible parent!!!

[Repsol a095]

I am a teacher for Cherry Creek School District, and I have to tell you that with everything that has happened here and across the country over the last ten years, there is a zero tolerance policy. If you make the shape of gun with your hand, you are suspended. If you threaten someone, you can be arrested. I guess they knew about some of the events that unfolded before Columbine, but they let it slide because they didn't want to go over the top, but in the end, they should have. I believe that the shootings at Virginia tech could be traced back to a journal the student kept which was seen by a teacher, who again let it go.

As a teacher, you better believe that I want them to be serious about this. I know these were fake guns, but I would rather school officials go over the top than anyone getting hurt.

[#1Townie]

I am a teacher for Cherry Creek School District, and I have to tell you that with everything that has happened here and across the country over the last ten years, there is a zero tolerance policy. If you make the shape of gun with your hand, you are suspended. If you threaten someone, you can be arrested. I guess they knew about some of the events that unfolded before Columbine, but they let it slide because they didn't want to go over the top, but in the end, they should have. I believe that the shootings at Virginia tech could be traced back to a journal the student kept which was seen by a teacher, who again let it go.

As a teacher, you better believe that I want them to be serious about this. I know these were fake guns, but I would rather school officials go over the top than anyone getting hurt.

please looking at the student and what they are involved in are big ones for you teachers and admins.. you people never get to know people anymore before you throw them out of school..

look i was that troubled kid.. i was the kid that got into alot of fights.. i was the kid that got into the drugs.. i was also the kid that was finaly thrown out of school with only a 9th grade education.. i pulled my head out of my ass and now i work my ass off for little money.. ok my bad.. i was a dumbass when i was 13-18.. you know what you teachers tought me??? i mean realy.. do you know what you are teaching kids?? your teaching them if they have problems then they have to go deal with it on their own... if you make a mistake you have no way to fix it... you can do all the right things but screw up once and your done... you call yourselfs teachers but realy the only things you teach them are hardly ever used in the real world... i may not have the best book smarts but at least i can look at a person and see a person..

i mean realy a kid in rotc or whatever making a relstic tool to practice somthing that is a part of the after school program they are involved in... come on.. that should have gotn her an A not suspended or even maybe expelled.. you teacher always think you know everything.. you never get to know the kids your teaching, you realy never want to know the ones that are having problems.. you pretend you do.. but at the end of the day you realy dont care... o but think of the other kids whos lives were in danger.. what danger?? ok i agree on checking out what it is that is in the car that people are scared about.. i agree that if you didnt like what it was you explain to the student that in this time and age we cant have these things.. but no lets just jump right to omg they could have been guns and this kid might want to hurt the school lets get her out of here... i mean right to it.. you didnt even stop at a one seconed to think hey this kid gets good grades has good friends is involved with after aschool activities and has plans for herself... no never thought of that did ya teach???


good teaching for sure..

[RyNo24]

Most high school marching band color guards have parade guns that are wood and metal that resemble a gun. They use them often for shows and practice carrying them THROUGH the school. I do not see anyone getting all bent out of shape over these. It seems people now a days are just getting gun shy because the media is doing a good job on making them "bad". I think its time we need to educate people that guns are only dangerous in bad peoples hands.

Hell a teenager behind the wheel can kill someone too, so should we ban cars from school parking lots?

My Marching Band had 10 of these in the room at all times, by the rules, most of the marching band and director should have been kicked out of the school because they look like a gun.

[Speedwagon]

I am a teacher for Cherry Creek School District, and I have to tell you that with everything that has happened here and across the country over the last ten years, there is a zero tolerance policy. If you make the shape of gun with your hand, you are suspended. If you threaten someone, you can be arrested. I guess they knew about some of the events that unfolded before Columbine, but they let it slide because they didn't want to go over the top, but in the end, they should have. I believe that the shootings at Virginia tech could be traced back to a journal the student kept which was seen by a teacher, who again let it go.

As a teacher, you better believe that I want them to be serious about this. I know these were fake guns, but I would rather school officials go over the top than anyone getting hurt.

Being serious about it would involve investigaying it, and making an informed decision. Clearly, they did not do this. They did a knee-jerk reaction, probably the worst thing they could have done. I would think as a teacher, you would value information over knee-jerking?

[chad23]

I am a teacher for Cherry Creek School District, and I have to tell you that with everything that has happened here and across the country over the last ten years, there is a zero tolerance policy. If you make the shape of gun with your hand, you are suspended. If you threaten someone, you can be arrested. I guess they knew about some of the events that unfolded before Columbine, but they let it slide because they didn't want to go over the top, but in the end, they should have. I believe that the shootings at Virginia tech could be traced back to a journal the student kept which was seen by a teacher, who again let it go.

As a teacher, you better believe that I want them to be serious about this. I know these were fake guns, but I would rather school officials go over the top than anyone getting hurt.

I can agree with some of what you are saying.A Lot of messed up shit would not have happened if we would have taken better action. My issue is that this is not a bad kid, hell she (at a young age) has made a decision to do better for herself and for her country. I hate to say it (not really) but they should have been profiling. If it was some shit head gang banger, than fine bust his ass. But to be over the top on a kid walking the right path in life is bullshit. we have become to PC with stuff like this. "we must treat all people the same" is bullshit. She is a good kid and that alone should have given her leniency, if anything they should have said " put those FAKE guns in your trunk to keep people from seeing them". there is nothing wrong with profiling, If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....its a fucking duck. And you know what kids in your school are trouble and the ones that are troubled and the ones that are just fine. And for $20 I bet you watch the first 2 in the halls before you even look at the 3rd.

Also Thank for being a teacher, cause today that has got to be one challenging job

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Look, it's a zero tolerance policy. It's very black and white in this case...there is no gray area. Everyone from the principals to the teachers to the students to the parents know this. It's made very clear...If you don't know this, then it's no one's fault but your own.

I wish there was some rational thinking allowed in the case of this young girl. She seems to be as close to a model student as any school could hope for. However, she made a mistake and now has to pay the consequences. I'm sure many of us think that maybe they should consider her school record/history. Maybe use some common sense? I agree...but then when it comes to some punk kid that causes trouble all the time and commits a similar infraction then we're going to hear about bias and favoritism when they aren't let off the hook. It's simply just easier to have a clear cut rule on these types of things.

As far as teachers getting to know students...that isn't their job. It's to educate these kids and prepare them from an educational standpoint for society. To help get them ready for more formal education such as college or trade schools. To get them ready for employment opportunities.

So many people think that teachers are supposed to be the parents or babysitters in these kids lives. I'm not sure where these delusional thoughts come from. Parents should take more of an active role in their kids lives and teach them ethics and morales. Teach your kids wrong from right and be in their lives. How about spend time teaching your kids what life is about. For every punk kid that disrupts class and causes problems because mommy and daddy aren't there for them means another kid that doesn't get to learn what they want to in class. All the disruptions take away from the kids that are there to learn.

Keep in mind, this is nothing more than another opinion. Just like all those above this post. It doesn't make it wrong or right...just the way I feel about it.

[Think]

Look, it's a zero tolerance policy. It's very black and white in this case...there is no gray area. Everyone from the principals to the teachers to the students to the parents know this. It's made very clear...If you don't know this, then it's no one's fault but your own.

I wish there was some rational thinking allowed in the case of this young girl. She seems to be as close to a model student as any school could hope for. However, she made a mistake and now has to pay the consequences. I'm sure many of us think that maybe they should consider her school record/history. Maybe use some common sense? I agree...but then when it comes to some punk kid that causes trouble all the time and commits a similar infraction then we're going to hear about bias and favoritism when they aren't let off the hook. It's simply just easier to have a clear cut rule on these types of things.

As far as teachers getting to know students...that isn't their job. It's to educate these kids and prepare them from an educational standpoint for society. To help get them ready for more formal education such as college or trade schools. To get them ready for employment opportunities.

So many people think that teachers are supposed to be the parents or babysitters in these kids lives. I'm not sure where these delusional thoughts come from. Parents should take more of an active role in their kids lives and teach them ethics and morales. Teach your kids wrong from right and be in their lives. How about spend time teaching your kids what life is about. For every punk kid that disrupts class and causes problems because mommy and daddy aren't there for them means another kid that doesn't get to learn what they want to in class. All the disruptions take away from the kids that are there to learn.

Keep in mind, this is nothing more than another opinion. Just like all those above this post. It doesn't make it wrong or right...just the way I feel about it.

Sure, it might have been dumb for the girl to keep the "guns" in plain sight to other students, however, I think the punishment is way over the top. 10 day suspension for this? There were numerous kids in my school who were caught with weed in school and they were never given a 10 day suspension, more like 3 days. I mean they KNOW what the "guns" were being used for and they know the girls track record so I don't think it would be out of line to cut her some slack.

And when it comes to school shootings, correct me if I am wrong, but for the bigger ones, there were some pretty big red flags before anything actually took place. There is NOTHING here that shows this girl was going to do anything violent or mischievous.

[Repsol a095]

please looking at the student and what they are involved in are big ones for you teachers and admins.. you people never get to know people anymore before you throw them out of school..

look i was that troubled kid.. i was the kid that got into alot of fights.. i was the kid that got into the drugs.. i was also the kid that was finaly thrown out of school with only a 9th grade education.. i pulled my head out of my ass and now i work my ass off for little money.. ok my bad.. i was a dumbass when i was 13-18.. you know what you teachers tought me??? i mean realy.. do you know what you are teaching kids?? your teaching them if they have problems then they have to go deal with it on their own... if you make a mistake you have no way to fix it... you can do all the right things but screw up once and your done... you call yourselfs teachers but realy the only things you teach them are hardly ever used in the real world... i may not have the best book smarts but at least i can look at a person and see a person..

i mean realy a kid in rotc or whatever making a relstic tool to practice somthing that is a part of the after school program they are involved in... come on.. that should have gotn her an A not suspended or even maybe expelled.. you teacher always think you know everything.. you never get to know the kids your teaching, you realy never want to know the ones that are having problems.. you pretend you do.. but at the end of the day you realy dont care... o but think of the other kids whos lives were in danger.. what danger?? ok i agree on checking out what it is that is in the car that people are scared about.. i agree that if you didnt like what it was you explain to the student that in this time and age we cant have these things.. but no lets just jump right to omg they could have been guns and this kid might want to hurt the school lets get her out of here... i mean right to it.. you didnt even stop at a one seconed to think hey this kid gets good grades has good friends is involved with after aschool activities and has plans for herself... no never thought of that did ya teach???


good teaching for sure..

Here's the deal: it's a zero tolerance policy. You can call me names, and you can accuse me of being a bad teacher based off of one post on a sportbike club thread, if you want. I just want to come home to my wife safely every night. This is why the policy was created in the first place.

[Repsol a095]

I can agree with some of what you are saying.A Lot of messed up shit would not have happened if we would have taken better action. My issue is that this is not a bad kid, hell she (at a young age) has made a decision to do better for herself and for her country. I hate to say it (not really) but they should have been profiling. If it was some shit head gang banger, than fine bust his ass. But to be over the top on a kid walking the right path in life is bullshit. we have become to PC with stuff like this. "we must treat all people the same" is bullshit. She is a good kid and that alone should have given her leniency, if anything they should have said " put those FAKE guns in your trunk to keep people from seeing them". there is nothing wrong with profiling, If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....its a fucking duck. And you know what kids in your school are trouble and the ones that are troubled and the ones that are just fine. And for $20 I bet you watch the first 2 in the halls before you even look at the 3rd.


Also Thank for being a teacher, cause today that has got to be one challenging job

Chad, thanks for the props!! I have to tell you though, I have been teaching for eleven years, and sometimes it is impossible to try to put your finger on anything. I have made calls to help kids: troubled or not, and in the end, many times, it has turned out poorly. I have learned that everything has to be taken seriously. I'm sorry this happened to this student, but in today's climate, everyone is scared of everything. At the least, I want my kids to be safe.

[RyNo24]

Here's the deal: It's a zero tolerance policy. You can call me names, and you can accuse me of being a bad teacher if you want. I just want to come home to wife safely every night. This is why the policy was created in the first place.

I do not think this policy can really stop anything. If a messed up kid wants to do it bad enough, he will. Most of the time the school ignores the problem kids and bully problems at their schools. Columbine even admitted they messed up and should have stepped in way before 4/20/1999. This is just another "feel better" policy to give people a false sense of security. Criminals are messed up people, and sadly it is hard to stop them, because this policy will not keep them from walking into a school with a gun.

Granted, she should have been smarter and at least got approval from the administration to have these in her car or not have had them in plain view. This society is scared of a lot of things, but it is hurting innocent people too. Bad parenting is leading to a lot of these school related problems.

I know being a teacher is hard, because now your expected to raise these kids, but at the same time the parents want to tell you how to do it... Parents need to step up to their kids more often and not leave it to the teachers that are getting stripped of more and more power against kids.

[TFOGGuys]

Zero Tolerance= Administration not taking responsibility for making decisions. It saves them from having to think or justify their response to any situation. CYA taken to the logical extreme. The concept of "common sense" (an oxymoron in today's society) has been replaced by "policy". For the record, I carried a pocket knife to school every day from the third grade through graduation. I never used it as a threat or weapon. Teachers knew I had it, and even borrowed it on occasion. There were other kids that were suspended or expelled because of weapons, but that was decided on a CASE by CASE basis, by people with good judgement.

[#1Townie]

Here's the deal: it's a zero tolerance policy. You can call me names, and you can accuse me of being a bad teacher based off of one post on a sportbike club thread, if you want. I just want to come home to my wife safely every night. This is why the policy was created in the first place.

im not calling you names im showing my zero tolerance for what you so called teachers and admins do with young adults lives... you still dont get it do you?? i didnt go off on you cuz i think you are a poor teacher.. i have no idea what kind of teacher you are.. i showed you the same respect you are showing this girl..


look if you are so scared of these kids then maybe you should choose a new line of work... all the kids that do the things that you are scared of are not the typ that is going to go the extra mile for any kind of school activities.. im sure you can find that in a document some were about trouble kids... then again asking a teacher to educate themselfs on the very people they are teaching may be asking a little to much now days..

[#1Townie]

Chad, thanks for the props!! I have to tell you though, I have been teaching for eleven years, and sometimes it is impossible to try to put your finger on anything. I have made calls to help kids: troubled or not, and in the end, many times, it has turned out poorly. I have learned that everything has to be taken seriously. I'm sorry this happened to this student, but in today's climate, everyone is scared of everything. At the least, I want my kids to be safe.

so throwing a kid out on to the streets is a way to deal with our problems??

[JustSomeDude]

I just wrote an email to thier principal. If enough do it, they might get the message.

http://www.cths.ccsd.k12.co.us/documents/admin.html

Absolutely disgraceful that they handled it that way.

Brooke Gregory - Principal
egregory@cherrycreekschools.org
720-886-1904


Mayor Ed Tauer
etauer@auroragov.org
303-739-7015
15151 E. Alameda Parkway, 80012


There are also 2 private listings for a Brooke Gregory in Aurora:


Brooke Gregory
13536 E Evans Ave
Aurora, CO 80014
(303) 671-9846


Brooke Gregory
25901 E Arapahoe Rd
Aurora, CO 80016
Phone Unpublished

[Raptor]

Zero Tolerance= Administration not taking responsibility for making decisions. It saves them from having to think or justify their response to any situation. CYA taken to the logical extreme. The concept of "common sense" (an oxymoron in today's society) has been replaced by "policy". For the record, I carried a pocket knife to school every day from the third grade through graduation. I never used it as a threat or weapon. Teachers knew I had it, and even borrowed it on occasion. There were other kids that were suspended or expelled because of weapons, but that was decided on a CASE by CASE basis, by people with good judgement.

+1!

It is a sad time when a district's fear of liability is masked by claims of "zero tolerance for the sake of safety".

In one of the news videos I watched, the spokesperson (Superintendant? Principal? C.C. Educational Board Member?) claimed that "...the law makes no distinction between a real weapon and a facsimile." Does anyone know why? Because we, as people with the ability to apply critical thought and human compassion are expected to know the difference! It should not be unreasonable to expect some human interjection in the face of such an issue, should it?
I have a strong suspicion that the law referred to was not written on the basis of absolution. It was written by someone who apparently far overestimated the judgment or leadership skills of the administrators. The C.C. administrators have missed the point of the law by a mile.

What is the point of a board of administrators, superintendent, or principal, if not to be capable of making intelligent decisions when the time comes? High-paid shills sounds more like it to me.

[#1Townie]

Look, it's a zero tolerance policy. It's very black and white in this case...there is no gray area. Everyone from the principals to the teachers to the students to the parents know this. It's made very clear...If you don't know this, then it's no one's fault but your own.

I wish there was some rational thinking allowed in the case of this young girl. She seems to be as close to a model student as any school could hope for. However, she made a mistake and now has to pay the consequences. I'm sure many of us think that maybe they should consider her school record/history. Maybe use some common sense? I agree...but then when it comes to some punk kid that causes trouble all the time and commits a similar infraction then we're going to hear about bias and favoritism when they aren't let off the hook. It's simply just easier to have a clear cut rule on these types of things.

As far as teachers getting to know students...that isn't their job. It's to educate these kids and prepare them from an educational standpoint for society. To help get them ready for more formal education such as college or trade schools. To get them ready for employment opportunities.

So many people think that teachers are supposed to be the parents or babysitters in these kids lives. I'm not sure where these delusional thoughts come from. Parents should take more of an active role in their kids lives and teach them ethics and morales. Teach your kids wrong from right and be in their lives. How about spend time teaching your kids what life is about. For every punk kid that disrupts class and causes problems because mommy and daddy aren't there for them means another kid that doesn't get to learn what they want to in class. All the disruptions take away from the kids that are there to learn.

Keep in mind, this is nothing more than another opinion. Just like all those above this post. It doesn't make it wrong or right...just the way I feel about it.

Chris Proctor, commanding officer of the Douglas County Young Marines, was rebuffed in his attempt to explain the props to school leaders.


looks to me like she had an adults permission to have these things... she never once thought of them leading to this...

nothing in life is black and white.. the argument about but if a troubled child does the same thing is not valid..

[rforsythe]

Does anyone have the actual text of the law, or even CC's policy? It seems like if y'all are going to debate this, it would be useful to know what you're debating. Right now it's just "well that guy said it was this way" and "well I disagree with you agreeing with what that guy said the rules are".

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

This may address it Ralph.

http://pdfserver.ccsd.k12.co.us/vol1...espdf/JICI.pdf

[#1Townie]

Seizure of Items
Anything found in the course of a search conducted by school officials which is evidence of a violation of law or Board policy or school rules or which by its presence presents an immediate danger of physical harm may be:
1. seized, tested, and/or offered as evidence in any suspension or expulsion proceeding if it is tagged for identification at the time it is seized;
Such material shall be kept in a secure place by the principal until it is presented at the hearing. If testing a substance has shown it to be a controlled or counterfeit substance, written documentation or the identification of the substance shall be maintained and admitted as evidence in any suspension or expulsion proceeding; or
2. turned over to any law enforcement officer inn accordance with this policy.
Any law enforcement records, testing or reports relative to the seized item may also be used as evidence in any suspension or expulsion proceeding.

this in its own not sure why the so called fire arms were returned to the girl if the school was going to take such action...

 
SCHOOL BOARD POLICY (JICI) – WEAPONS IN SCHOOL
The Board of Education determines that possession and/or use of a weapon by students is detrimental to the welfare and safety of the students and school personnel within the district. Possession is defined as having physical possession of a deadly weapon/weapon/facsimile, or the deadly weapon/weapon/facsimile being under the control of a student whether it be in a car, locker, backpack, or other location, under the control of or belonging to the student while on school grounds.
Mandatory Expulsion for Dangerous Weapon in Accordance with State and Federal Law
Carrying, bringing, using or possessing a dangerous weapon in any school building, on school grounds, in any school vehicle or at any school-sponsored activity or event without the authorization of the school or the school district is prohibited. An exception to this policy may be made for students participating in an authorized extracurricular activity or team involving the use of firearms.
If a student discovers that he or she has carried, brought or is in possession of a dangerous weapon and the student notifies a teacher, administrator or other authorized person in the school district, and as soon as possible delivers the dangerous weapon to that person, expulsion shall not be mandatory and such action shall be considered when determining appropriate disciplinary action, if any.
 
As used in this policy, “dangerous weapon” means:
a. A firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or a firearm facsimile that could reasonably be mistaken for an actual firearm.
 
b. Any pellet, BB gun or other device, whether operational or not, designed to propel projectiles by spring action or compressed air.
c. A fixed blade knife with a blade that measures longer than three inches in length or a spring-loaded knife or a pocketknife with a blade longer than three and one-half inches.
d. Any object, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate, used or intended to be used to inflict death or serious bodily injury including, but not limited to slingshot, numchakas, spring gun, throwing star, bludgeon, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any kind.
In accordance with federal law, expulsion shall be for no less than one full calendar year for a student who is determined to have brought a firearm to school in violation of this policy.
Discretionary Suspension or Expulsion for Weapon in Accordance with State Law
As used in this policy, “weapon” means any object which is generally used for nonviolent or nondangerous purposes, but which can be considered a weapon under this policy as a result of its use or intended or threatened use. For example, a baseball bat is ordinarily not considered a weapon; however, when used or threatened to be used to strike the head of another person in a fight, it will be considered a weapon under this policy. Examples of objects which may, under given circumstances, be weapons include, but are not limited to, rocks, bottles and cans, chains, shoes, especially military style boots, bats, ropes, mace or similar noxious chemical substances used in a threatening or improper manner.
Other Restrictions Invoking Discretionary Suspension or Expulsion for aWeapon in Accordance with State Law
The Board of Education determines that extra precautions are important and necessary to provide for student safety. Therefore, the carrying, bringing, using or possessing of any knife, regardless of the length of the blade, in any school building, on school grounds, in any school vehicle or at any school-sponsored event or activity without express authorization is considered to be behavior detrimental to the safety and welfare of the student, other students and school personnel and is therefore prohibited. Students who violate this policy shall be referred for appropriate disciplinary proceedings.
However, if a student discovers that he or she has carried, brought or is in possession of a knife and the student notifies a teacher, administrator, or other authorized person in the school district, and as soon as possible delivers the knife to that person, expulsion shall not be mandatory and such action shall
 
be considered when determining appropriate disciplinary action, if any.
The district shall maintain records which describe the circumstances involving expulsions of students who bring weapons to school including the name of the school, the number of students expelled and the types of weapons involved as required by law.
School personnel shall refer any student who brings a firearm or weapon to school without authorization of the school or the school district to law enforcement, unless the student has delivered the firearm or weapon to a teacher, administrator or other authorized person in the district as soon as possible upon discovering it. In such case, school personnel shall consult with law enforcement to determine whether referral of the student to law enforcement is necessary and how to properly dispose of the firearm or weapon or return it to its owner.
Revised: November 10, 2003
Adopted: December 8, 2003
LEGAL REFS.: C.R.S. 22-33-106 (1)(d) (grounds for suspension and expulsion)
18 U.S.C. Section 921 (a)(3) (federal definition of “firearm”)
C.R.S. 22-32-109.1 (2)(a)(VII) (policy required as part of safe schools plan)
CROSS REFS.: JKD, Suspension/Expulsion of Students,
KFA, Public Conduct on School Property

An exception to this policy may be made for students participating in an authorized extracurricular activity or team involving the use of firearms

[LambeauXLIV]

Well...that pretty much sums it up ^^

[dallas]

It is pretty funny to read through this. I think back to the early 90's when both of my cousins were told to take the rifles out of the back window of thier pickups while they were parked in the school the parking lot. They could put it behind the seat just not in the back window.

This was in SE Colorado though and the whole school K-12 had about 80 kids.