Another newb corners question

[= Buckeye Jess =]

So I fully realize how ridiculous this question may seem to most of ya.. but nonetheless...

Does shifting affect traction at all? I'm thinking of those long left hand turns from a stop in particular. I know that braking decreases traction, so does shifting do the same? I've not noticed any issues with it myself, but am not quite sure of the answer - so I've been taking the turns pretty damn slow just in case. I'd love to hear what ya have to say! Muchos grass ass.

[Nick_Ninja]

If you shift down --- and you aren't in the correct power-band ----- you can lock up the rear tire and fishtail.

Basically a form of unwanted compression braking.

[Sortarican]

For a newer rider I'd suggest trying to stay in 1st till you're done with the turn.
Personally, if it's long enough that 1st gets wrapped out I'll shift, just be careful in wet/sandy conditions.

And watch out for crosswalk paint, that shit has dropped a lot of riders.

[TFOGGuys]

Shifting midcorner is something we all have to deal with at times. If you're just leaving a light, cornering traction should not really be an issue, as you're not usually accelerating that hard. If you find yourself in a situation in the hills or on the track that calls for an upshift in a corner, try to be as smooth as possible, so as not to upset the chassis. Downshifts midcorner likewise need to be smooth, with throttle blipping to match revs, so that you don't end up chirping the rear tire and breaking traction or upsetting the chassis balance.

[Bueller]

Keep it simple, setup for the corner before you enter it, be in the gear you want before you start your turn in, one less thing to think about in the corner. Shifting mid corner is not the best technique and may upset your bike when you are cornering harder.

[UglyDogRacing]

For a newer rider I'd suggest trying to stay in 1st till you're done with the turn.
Personally, if it's long enough that 1st gets wrapped out I'll shift, just be careful in wet/sandy conditions.

So you are downshifting to 1st going into a corner?

[XJ600s]

Coming from physics, any change you make in a turn other than an increase in the throttle, will change your acceleration and thus affect the turn. if you are leaned over a lot and depending on how much change you make, it could cause problems.

I'm no racer, but I tend to either keep it in first until I get mostly out of the turn or quickly shift to second before I start my lean.

but then again I'm riding a bike with a claimed 54hp. so most likely your bike is more powerful than mine and a slight change in your throttle will causeca bigeger power jump than mine.

there's the old saying that "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast". I find that when I focus on my technique, turns are a lot smoother.

[MetaLord 9]

The smoother your shifts, the less they will effect traction. Being as there are essentially three things that you can do with traction (decellerating, accellerating, and cornering), if you think of your traction as a one dollar (yes, twist of the wrist fans, I'm going there), then it becomes a question of how much you're spending doing which actions. If you're at your traction's max and you're spending $1.00 on traction, then spending anything more on accellerating or decellerating will result in a loss of traction. If you're slamming on the brakes and spending $1.00 on braking then trying to turn will result in the same.
If you're accellerating through a corner and you have a rough shift then you start off accellerating and corner then very quickly decellerate while cornering and then go back to accellerating as quickly as you roll on the throttle. The smoother your shifts, the less you'll get the accel, decel and the less that will have to compete with your cornering for traction.
So, in the end, it depends on how hard you're cornering and how rough your shifts are. It sounds like you're only cornering somwhere in the neighboor of $0.35 and you're accellerating anywhere from $0.25 to $0.35, so you've got at least $0.30 left of your traction dollar to spend.
/overly long somewhat technical explaination

[Sortarican]

So you are downshifting to 1st going into a corner?

No. Upshifting in a corner.

I think this person is asking mainly about left turns from a stoplight in traffic.
That's what I was voicing my comments toward.

[= Buckeye Jess =]

Great help and it all makes sense, thanks guys!!!

No. Upshifting in a corner.

I think this person is asking mainly about left turns from a stoplight in traffic.
That's what I was voicing my comments toward.

Yes, I was asking about both, but the big left turn from a stoplight is where I think about it the most, since that is a scenario that I spend more time in the curve vs. a quick jaunt to the right. And good call on the cross walk paint, all of the stickers/paint on the road do make me a tad wary!

[dragos13]

Great help and it all makes sense, thanks guys!!!



Yes, I was asking about both, but the big left turn from a stoplight is where I think about it the most, since that is a scenario that I spend more time in the curve vs. a quick jaunt to the right. And good call on the cross walk paint, all of the stickers/paint on the road do make me a tad wary!

Are you worried about left turns specifically because the shifter is on the left? You might want to grab an early shift, that way you have plenty of RPM range and dont have to worry about getting your foot under the shifter mid corner. This will also help keep the chassis from getting unsettled. Turn 7 at hastings is a perfect example of early shifting. Traction should not be affected unless you are rough on your shift. Be smooth and tires will keep good traction.

[R6biker122]

If you shift down --- and you aren't in the correct power-band ----- you can lock up the rear tire and fishtail.

Basically a form of unwanted compression braking.

Goood point! i have actually done this. The good thing about this is i usuually downshift before a turn so i can add constant acceleration out of the turn. I wouldnt recommend upshifting in an aggressive turn even though it can be done. I would think the disruption of the frame could have severe repercusions on traction.

[Scer]

I am with the other guys that say just keep it in gear and do a smooth follow through the whole turn. If you rev your engine a little more through the turn then it's better than spookng yourself and having a bad aftermath occur. As you become more familiar with the bike, you can judge how much traction you have and if you can goose it through the corner more.
Also make sure you know that the when you just start riding for the day the sides of the tires are less warm than the middle and thus has WAY less traction capabilities. So when you lean it over, it has more of a probability to slip out from under you than just accelerating standing up. So wait till ALL of your tire is warm to test it.

learn on learnas

[= Buckeye Jess =]

Dragos - not really concerned about the shifter issue.. just used a left turn as an example as there are a few rather large intersections I turn left at regularly and so there is a long big turn to make and by the time I'm done, I'm usually more than ready to upshift. The right turns I don't worry so much about since they are quick, I don't feel like an uber slow poke keeping it in first until I'm done with the corner. There are some of the larger lefts that I have shifted in mid-turn, but only real smooth and if I'm relatively upright (again - big turns) LOL

[Tipys]

Jess your on a ninja 650 right?


Taking lefts from a stop I shift up into 2nd on my 650 because of how low geared 1st is. It feels a whole lot smoothier to me.

[MetaLord 9]

^^Dear God, man! Have you even HEARD of the English language??? I know criticizing grammar & spelling on an internet forums is dumb and bush league, but sonofabitch, dude! I had to read your sentence three times just to find the verb!
/anal retentive bastard

[Tipys]

^^^ what are you talking about it sounds good to me.

[MetaLord 9]

Edit all you want man, just don't write your resume like that!

[= Buckeye Jess =]

Now now boys... play nice! lol I understood what he was saying just fine. =)

Anyhoo.. yes, I'm on the 650R and am finding that the big corners are hard to keep it in first for the exact reason you mentioned.

[Sortarican]

... It feels a whole lot smoothier to me.

^^Dear God, man! Have you even HEARD of the English language???

Well Chris, I know smoothier isn't a word, but it damn well aught to be!

[Bueller]

I know smoothier isn't a word, but it damn well aught to be!

All in favor say aey

[Sortarican]

All in favor say aey

Yarrrrr! (pirate vote)

Second the motion?

[= Buckeye Jess =]

second'ed! lol

[Sortarican]

Seconded and passed.
Let the minutes show the term "smoothier" is hereby officially ratified and recognized!

Congratulations Trevor!