Top Japanese Scientists: Warming Is Not Caused By Human Activity

[salsashark]

IBTL

[lightspeed]

This is not proof bro.. This is a theory..is it not?

[Snowman]

Dude I’m sure he believes we are still secretly a British colony and the whole ”Revolution” thing was just an elaborate way for the English monarchy to retain control with the land holders of the day. Why else would we have taken their side in WW2.

[lightspeed]

I will get back to this after my ride....This is getting good, and no I'm not a physicist, or a person with a heavy science background...but I bet I can hang with your guys who claim to hold these titles...

My theory is that if I don't get out of here...I will get left behind. So, peace. And you guys should just relax...it's gonna be okay.lol

[TFOGGuys]

Thats not very nice. R we getting angry enought to call names and throw a tempertantrum. I'm not emotionally attached to either point of view, so I will continue to voice my opinions until some compelling argument comes along to show my that I'm wrong. I don't want or need anyone 2 listen to my opinions. As far as my qualifications....as with all things, I know nothing.

So...since you know about physics...and the way metal behaves...break it down to me what actually happened. I'm all ears...

Fact: A 747 holds 48,445 gallons of jet fuel (basically kerosene).

A fire fueled by this much kerosene would generate about 6.9 million KJ, enough to raise the ambient temperature in 2 floors of the WTC to over 835 degrees C. At this temperature, the steel used in the towers would lose 80-90 % of it's yield strength.
If the planes had hit several floors higher than they did, the towers most likely would not have collapsed. Either the terrorists got incredibly lucky, or they planned the attacks with significant research and knowledge of the building's construction. They did plan ahead, in that they selected planes that had a capacity fuel load for a cross country flight (bound for Kalifornia).

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

you should watch " zeitgeist" and "zeitgeist addendum".Just one thing....the huge titanium engines of the plane that flew into pentagon could not have melted (as they claim) as those fires were not even close to being hot enough to melt titanium.Fact!And how the fuck is it that all the video recordings showing what really happened at the pentagon alone,were imeediately ceased and never released.It could not be because someone is trying to cover something,is it?

Having spent time in the avation industry I can tell you they are not all made of Ti. Further, the difference between high-temp alloys is not so much their ultimate melting point, but the strength curves near the top where the melting point is. Mild steel (as in the buildings) loses much of it's strength as the temp rises, the high-temp metals keep much of their strength until they finally melt. From Matweb:

Material: Melting point:
Ti 2820-2910F
Low Carbon Steel 2250-2790F

And yes, the fire, depending on the configuration, could easily have gotten that hot. I saw a series of pictures once of a motorcycle crash. There was a fire and you could see how progressively the FRAME melted simply from a small gas fire.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

...but I bet I can hang with your guys who claim to hold these titles...

In any technical discussion, you will be crushed like a cockroach......go ride.

[Snowman]

From what I understand, the terrorists plan was to strike the buildings as low as possible in order to knock them over into other buildings below.

The structure being essentially a hollow tube, would not allow this to happen because the outer walls were strong enough to contain the impact. However containing the impact and the fire compromised the inner structure and pulled the outer walls in on itself and thus the buildings fell for the most part straight down.

The only way they could have knocked one of the towers over would be to compromise one of the corners at its base. The outer wall of the lower 3 floors had a different design the outer walls above and if they could have taken out a corner, the non supported weight could have pulled the tower over.

However, there would have been no way to fly a plane into that corner at its base because of the number of other buildings around. They got lucky to do the damage they did.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Fact: A 747 holds 48,445 gallons of jet fuel (basically kerosene).

A fire fueled by this much kerosene would generate about 6.9 million KJ, enough to raise the ambient temperature in 2 floors of the WTC to over 835 degrees C. At this temperature, the steel used in the towers would lose 80-90 % of it's yield strength.
If the planes had hit several floors higher than they did, the towers most likely would not have collapsed. Either the terrorists got incredibly lucky, or they planned the attacks with significant research and knowledge of the building's construction. They did plan ahead, in that they selected planes that had a capacity fuel load for a cross country flight (bound for Kalifornia).

These idiots didn't know that, if they did they would have hit as close to the base of the towers as possible. The reason the second tower collapsed before the first is because the second one was hit significantly lower, with much more mass above it to buckle the outer walls. If they'd flown the planes into the towers just above the line where the fire crews could effectively fight the flames, they would have come down much sooner. I think they were planning on using the mass of the plane as leverage in trying to knock it over like a domino.

[TFOGGuys]

These idiots didn't know that, if they did they would have hit as close to the base of the towers as possible. The reason the second tower collapsed before the first is because the second one was hit significantly lower, with much more mass above it to buckle the outer walls. If they'd flown the planes into the towers just above the line where the fire crews could effectively fight the flames, they would have come down much sooner. I think they were planning on using the mass of the plane as leverage in trying to knock it over like a domino.

Good point, Frank. I think part of the reason why they were as high as they were was to get over the surrounding buildings to hit the towers. I seem to remember hearing on 60 Minutes that the CIA had intercepted communications from as early as 1985 from Osama bin Laden, postulating the effectiveness of commercial airliners as weapons.

[Shea]

I will get back to this after my ride....This is getting good, and no I'm not a physicist, or a person with a heavy science background...but I bet I can hang with your guys who claim to hold these titles...

Yea, because your showing so far has been stellar...

My theory is that if I don't get out of here...I will get left behind. So, peace. And you guys should just relax...it's gonna be okay.lol

Okay, with loons like you making uniformed decisions? I think your professor should have his license to teach suspended for gross incompetence.

So you say that the towers fell in a manner akin to a controlled demolition and therefore this is proof of a sinister government plan to murder civilians? Ok, well this shows that you lack an actually understanding of what happened on September 11 and controlled demolitions in general.

Point of fact is that they looked so similar is because the actual mechanics were similar. Controlled demolition uses the buildings own weight against it by removing key structural supports and letting the building fall in on itself. The fire resulting from thousands of gallons of Jet-A and the structural impact of a 350,000 lb aircraft caused supporting members to fail. This caused the pancake effect of the upper portion to fall onto the lower portion. You call that fake, I call it engineering and science.

[puckstr]

Yea, because your showing so far has been stellar...



Okay, with loons like you making uniformed decisions? I think your professor should have his license to teach suspended for gross incompetence.

So you say that the towers fell in a manner akin to a controlled demolition and therefore this is proof of a sinister government plan to murder civilians? Ok, well this shows that you lack an actually understanding of what happened on September 11 and controlled demolitions in general.

Point of fact is that they looked so similar is because the actual mechanics were similar. Controlled demolition uses the buildings own weight against it by removing key structural supports and letting the building fall in on itself. The fire resulting from thousands of gallons of Jet-A and the structural impact of a 350,000 lb aircraft caused supporting members to fail. This caused the pancake effect of the upper portion to fall onto the lower portion. You call that fake, I call it engineering and science.

so this pancake effect happened at WTC 7 also ?

.

[Matty]

Hahahahhaa... this could get entertaining.

Told Ya!!!!

[McVaaahhh]

So basically it will take armed thugs busting down your door and shooting your family because some 'tipster' claimed you were manufacturing meth in your basement before you realize something is wrong in Denmark?

WOW... talk about blinded by patriotisim.

Shit, I have no clue where you can come to that conclusion from my previous post...


Are there things wrong in our government? Abso-friggen-lutely.

Is EVERY politician only working for themselves? No, I don't think so.

Are there bad apples, even high up in the chain? No doubt about it

Am I patriotic? Yes, I would like to think so. This is the best damn country in the world and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. If you think differently, I'm sure they would take you in Iraq. (Just don't let the door hit you on the way out)

Am I blinded by said Patriotism? Hardly. I am far from pro-government. My statements in this thread have been regarding the 9/11 events only. Remember, hindsight is 20/20, and after every tragic event everyone always talks about the warnings that were ignored.

[Shea]

On back on topic, there is not the so-called "consensus" that climate change (which in and of itself is natural and has occurred throughout history) is man-made. In fact there are some big brains that say that models are grossly over exaggerated and based on flawed science. Our own PhD can attest to the inaccuracies and limitations of modeling such a complex system as an entire planet's climate.

[Snowman]

so this pancake effect happened at WTC 7 also ?

.

WTC 7 fell because of the damage from tower two I believe.

This allowed a fire to spread to the fuel tanks for the building generators that supplied not only the buildings emergency systems but also several of the buildings around it. It was also the emergency commend center thus requiring larger amounts of fuel to be storied.

This fire was left unchecked and eventually compromised the buildings main support beams causing its collapse. Building 7 was more of a grid work of structural supports. Once the mains were compromised they to pulled the building down on itself.

[puckstr]

On back on topic, there is not the so-called "consensus" that climate change (which in and of itself is natural and has occurred throughout history) is man-made. In fact there are some big brains that say that models are grossly over exaggerated and based on flawed science. Our own PhD can attest to the inaccuracies and limitations of modeling such a complex system as an entire planet's climate.

I am all for global warming...fuck cold weather
bring on the bikinis....................

BUT NOT ON FAT CHICKS

WTC 7 fell because of the damage from tower two I believe.

This allowed a fire to spread to the fuel tanks for the building generators that supplied not only the buildings emergency systems but also several of the buildings around it. It was also the emergency commend center thus requiring larger amounts of fuel to be storied.

This fire was left unchecked and eventually compromised the buildings main support beams causing its collapse. Building 7 was more of a grid work of structural supports. Once the mains were compromised they to pulled the building down on itself.

Still not buying that ALL 3 buildings fell into there own footprints.
Especially WTC7

[McVaaahhh]

Still not buying that ALL 3 buildings fell into there own footprints.
Especially WTC7

Problem is, you've got no evidence to back your theory.

[Shea]

so this pancake effect happened at WTC 7 also ?

.

No idea Steve, but this site has some videos that suggest that it did.

http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

[puckstr]

Problem is, you've got no evidence to back your theory.

dude it is only MY opinion....
RELAXXXX and drink some more kool-aid

[Snowman]

On back on topic, there is not the so-called "consensus" that climate change (which in and of itself is natural and has occurred throughout history) is man-made. In fact there are some big brains that say that models are grossly over exaggerated and based on flawed science. Our own PhD can attest to the inaccuracies and limitations of modeling such a complex system as an entire planet's climate.

I would agree the climate modeling techniques we currently do have has some flaws. Just the mass of data to evaluate is requiring the largest computers we have. And even those the accuracy predicting weather fall off over 20 years or so. But I wouldn’t negate the general conclusion of all the models saying we are in an accelerated warming cycle.

We may disagree when it comes to cause and what if anything we can do about it. I would postulate that man is not helping no matter how much or little you think we are doing to cause it. Cause or not it is happening.

And as far as what things we can do, becoming more efficient in way we use energy, move to more renewable sources, clean up the known pollution issues, have more to do with than just global warming.

[Snowman]

Still not buying that ALL 3 buildings fell into there own footprints.
Especially WTC7

The only time I think I have seen a building of any size “fall over” was in an earthquake situation. Move the ground several feet out from under and non-supported building (no basement structure) and yes you can get it to fall over. The WTC buildings were not designed that way.

[McVaaahhh]

dude it is only MY opinion....
RELAXXXX and drink some more kool-aid

Kool-aid is good...

[TFOGGuys]

On back on topic, there is not the so-called "consensus" that climate change (which in and of itself is natural and has occurred throughout history) is man-made. In fact there are some big brains that say that models are grossly over exaggerated and based on flawed science. Our own PhD can attest to the inaccuracies and limitations of modeling such a complex system as an entire planet's climate.

Shea, how dare you unjack this thread?