Top Japanese Scientists: Warming Is Not Caused By Human Activity

[puckstr]

is this proof enough?

[Snowman]

and he didn't need a computer to tell him that...

[Shea]

I would agree the climate modeling techniques we currently do have has some flaws. Just the mass of data to evaluate is requiring the largest computers we have. And even those the accuracy predicting weather fall off over 20 years or so. But I wouldn’t negate the general conclusion of all the models saying we are in an accelerated warming cycle.

Nor am I saying such Randal (looks at the temp today). The climate fluctuates on many factors, not least of which is that big luminescent ball of hydrogen in the sky. My point is that most climate models focus specifically on CO2 emissions and don't take into effect many of the more common causes. There is a predisposition towards blaming man for the changing climate and anytime you go into research looking to justify your beliefs you generally come away happy. Add to that the political aspect and wham, bam, you've got yourself a "problem".

We may disagree when it comes to cause and what if anything we can do about it. I would postulate that man is not helping no matter how much or little you think we are doing to cause it. Cause or not it is happening.

Granted but does that mean we need to fundamentally change our societies, redistribute MASSIVE amounts of wealth and basically hand over our market economies to Al Gore? I would say no. Yes, the climate is changing, we can do little to help or hinder it. Everybody take a deep breath and calm down.

And as far as what things we can do, becoming more efficient in way we use energy, move to more renewable sources, clean up the known pollution issues, have more to do with than just global warming.

Become more efficient? Absolutely. Pour taxpayer money into questionable, immature and economically unviable alternative energy sources? Probably not.

[Shea]

Shea, how dare you unjack this thread?

Sorry man Uh, Bush sucks and Obama will save us all!!! Better?

[puckstr]

Sorry man Uh, Bush sucks and Obama will save us all!!! Better?

BUSH sucks
OBAMA is the DEVIL

[Shea]

BUSH sucks
OBAMA is the DEVIL

So much hate young padawan. Release your anger and become one with the hope and love of the Obama!

It doesn't matter how much of your freedom he crushes, how much of your liberty he takes and how much control over your daily life he usurps...all that matters is that he sounds good behind a teleprompter.

[puckstr]

So much hate young padawan. Release your anger and become one with the hope and love of the Obama!

It doesn't matter how much of your freedom he crushes, how much of your liberty he takes and how much control over your daily life he usurps...all that matters is that he sounds good behind a teleprompter.

Join the dark side?
NEVER!!!!!!!!!

[Shea]

Join the dark side?
NEVER!!!!!!!!!

We have cookies

[rforsythe]

It doesn't matter how much of your freedom he crushes, how much of your liberty he takes and how much control over your daily life he usurps...all that matters is that he sounds good behind a teleprompter.

Funny... The same was said about Bush as well.

[Shea]

Funny... The same was said about Bush as well.

Liar, Bush never sounded good, whether behind a teleprompter or not

[rforsythe]

Ok you got me there.

[Snowman]

Nor am I saying such Randal (looks at the temp today). The climate fluctuates on many factors, not least of which is that big luminescent ball of hydrogen in the sky. My point is that most climate models focus specifically on CO2 emissions and don't take into effect many of the more common causes. There is a predisposition towards blaming man for the changing climate and anytime you go into research looking to justify your beliefs you generally come away happy. Add to that the political aspect and wham, bam, you've got yourself a "problem"..

As you said if you go into research looking to justify your beliefs you generally come away happy. That counters both our arguments.

On the CO2 note… What changed my mind was when I was at the south pole station I had the chance to see the real data coming in from the air monitoring station that is down there. They have been sniffing the air for last 30 years now and I have seen the CO2 component of our atmosphere rise dramatically.

Granted but does that mean we need to fundamentally change our societies, redistribute MASSIVE amounts of wealth and basically hand over our market economies to Al Gore? I would say no. Yes, the climate is changing, we can do little to help or hinder it. Everybody take a deep breath and calm down..

Well I’m not fan of the AL Gore myself. He is a politician no matter how many Nobel Prizes they give him he will always be pushing his agenda. And panic is one tool they use to get what they want done going.

Become more efficient? Absolutely. Pour taxpayer money into questionable, immature and economically unviable alternative energy sources? Probably not.

I personally would prefer to pay the equivalent of $4.00 a gallon to fill a hydrogen powered car (where the hydrogen is created from electrolysis from seawater and powered by nuclear energy) than to pay $1.80 to countries with citizens who chant “Death to America”. Many do say that nuclear power is an immature and economically unviable alternative. Things like solar and wind have been around allot longer and wind in particular is becoming more economically viable daily.

I do feel peoples fear of change that could eventually get us into a situation where we have no choice but to panic. And panic is allot more expensive than planning. Just look at how much the panic induced bailouts of the finance industry is costing us now, the same will come for energy in time.

[puckstr]

We have cookies

not even if they are baked with hope and taste like change

[Shea]

As you said if you go into research looking to justify your beliefs you generally come away happy. That counters both our arguments.

On the CO2 note… What changed my mind was when I was at the south pole station I had the chance to see the real data coming in from the air monitoring station that is down there. They have been sniffing the air for last 30 years now and I have seen the CO2 component of our atmosphere rise dramatically.

I would say that overstating CO2's impact on climate models by 300% and then declaring an emergency is not science but fraud. I wish I could find Lord Monkton's (the scientist who challenged Gore to defend his views publicly) piece on how skewed and erroneous some of the models have become...

I personally would prefer to pay the equivalent of $4.00 a gallon to fill a hydrogen powered car (where the hydrogen is created from electrolysis from seawater and powered by nuclear energy) than to pay $1.80 to countries with citizens who chant “Death to America”. Many do say that nuclear power is an immature and economically unviable alternative. Things like solar and wind have been around allot longer and wind in particular is becoming more economically viable daily.

That is your choice, but I would be opposed if it were to be imposed on everyone based on flawed science. While I agree that sending money to idiot tyrants in the Middle East and/or ignorant socialists in S. America is not the wisest course of action, however the market determines what is the most efficient source of fuel.

I would love to see government get out of the way and let our domestic resources be developed, new third generation molten salt reactors come online and the solar industry become worthwhile but I don't see them doing anything of the sort. Add to that the solar industry competing for the same resources as the tech sector...

Of course it's getting to the point where we can just burn all the fiat money the government is printing for fuel and not have to worry about it

[Shea]

not even if they are baked with hope and taste like change

Oh they taste like somethin' and it ain't "change".

[Kanabiis]

"It doesn't matter how much of your freedom he crushes, how much of your liberty he takes and how much control over your daily life he usurps...all that matters is that he sounds good behind a teleprompter."

Funny... The same was said about Bush as well.

And is quite a bit more accurate so far....

I mean seriously, name a SINGLE FUCKING liberty that Obama has so far taken away. Not that I am a fan of his, but jesus christ, to claim that Obama will take away your liberties while completely overlooking, or flat out denying the ACTUAL civil liberties that were striped away by the Bush administration is EXACTLY the problem with partisan politcs in this country.

But hey, if your political party is more important to you then your country you are part of the problem. If you like Rush Limbag and the rest of those thugs think its more imporant to be proud to be Republican then proud to be American, you are the problem. The same goes for any democrat that feels that way, fuck your party, the 2 parties are the reason why we are in this mess.

Obama *might* take away civil liberties sometime in his administration, and when he does, I will protest loudly. But to overlook Bush's assault on your rights, and then to run around screaming the sky is falling because Obama *might* just makes you look stupid.

And for the record, one of Obama's first executive orders reversed Bush's suspension of Hebias Corpus, the fundemental basis to our Judicial system.

But if you think forcing the government to prove they have legal merit to keep you in jail is not that important of a civil liberty then what kind of American are you? Or maybe you just dont care because hey, its not you in federal prison for years without charges or even being told what your crime was so fuck em right.

God Damn partisan hacks piss me off.....

[InlineSIX24]

You probably still believe we never made it to the moon too......

Well.. there was that Coke Bottle cap in the photo..

[TFOGGuys]

I mean seriously, name a SINGLE FUCKING liberty that Obama has so far taken away..

The liberty to make racially insensitive jokes without impugning the Office of The President?

I think a lot of the scrutiny that President Obama is facing concerning his policies and potential policies is a result of the previous 2 presidents' habits of running roughshod over our rights "for our own good". The fact that our new Attorney General is talking about an outright ban on many currently legal firearms to "aid Mexico in it's war on the drug cartels" speaks volumes about where this administration's mindset lies. Clinton had the Brady Ban and the Roadless Initiative, Bush had the Patriot Act and warrentless wiretaps, Obama has the financial Failout Plan and the war on the 2nd Amendment....

[rforsythe]

I think you all should vote me in for president...

- You all will be able to say what you want, shoot what you want, and live where you want.
- You'll be held responsible for stupidity. Your hand will not be held. You want freedom to choose, then you deal with your choices. Stop expecting the Universal Bailout to save you.
- The same goes for corporations.
- The rights of the citizens come above the profits of the powerful.
- You'll pay taxes. So will anyone else taking advantage of life here. Don't like it? Don't be surprised when we ship your ass to the Yukon.
- Global warming or not, stop killing the fucking planet.
- I'm sure there's more, but that's how I'd run the place.

[puckstr]

I think you all should vote me in for president...

- You all will be able to say what you want, shoot what you want, and live where you want.
- You'll be held responsible for stupidity. Your hand will not be held. You want freedom to choose, then you deal with your choices. Stop expecting the Universal Bailout to save you.
- The same goes for corporations.
- The rights of the citizens come above the profits of the powerful.
- You'll pay taxes. So will anyone else taking advantage of life here. Don't like it? Don't be surprised when we ship your ass to the Yukon.
- Global warming or not, stop killing the fucking planet.
- I'm sure there's more, but that's how I'd run the place.

Ralph you already have WAY too much power

[rforsythe]

Ralph you already have WAY too much power

But imagine how much better we'd all be if I could drop the ban hammer on assholes and incompetent pricks!

[TFOGGuys]

More fuel for the fire:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...emos.released/

Discuss.

[salsashark]

Emos released! what... into the wild?


oh... memos... stupid hyperlink lied to me

[Kanabiis]

The liberty to make racially insensitive jokes without impugning the Office of The President?

I think a lot of the scrutiny that President Obama is facing concerning his policies and potential policies is a result of the previous 2 presidents' habits of running roughshod over our rights "for our own good". The fact that our new Attorney General is talking about an outright ban on many currently legal firearms to "aid Mexico in it's war on the drug cartels" speaks volumes about where this administration's mindset lies. Clinton had the Brady Ban and the Roadless Initiative, Bush had the Patriot Act and warrentless wiretaps, Obama has the financial Failout Plan and the war on the 2nd Amendment....

While I disagree with any of these curtails of liberty, they pale in comparison to the effects of the Bush administration.

Yes, taking away a few types of firearms from being sold is an encrochment of the 2nd amendment. But it is interesting to see how people rank thier rights and protest the taking of them, take away something physical from someone and boy do you see protests and cries of anti-christ and whatever else the NRA is saying about Obama.

But when Bush suspended Hebias Corpus NOBODY protested, not the NRA, not Rush Limbag, not Sean Hanity, Bill O'liely NOBODY. But Hebias Corpus is a thousand times more powerful and important then being able to own an AK-47.. yes, they are both rights, but one of those rights is the basis for our entire judicial system.

I find it interesting that people put more stock in the right to own a certain type of gun, then the right to speech and protest, the right to petition the government for greivance, the right to privacy, for the love of god the right to privacy.

The Bush administration evesdropped on private American communications for 6 years unfiltered, unregulated and completley illegaly and nobody cried. He DID those thing, not might, not talked about, not discussed HE DID IT...

Where were the Rush Limbags and NRA then? I would argue your right to privacy trumps your right to own a *certain* firearm in the scope of Liberties.

I am a gun owner, yes I do not want a gun ban of any kind, but I find it funny that people are spending so much energy fighting a bill that hasn't even been written yet, where the hell is the energy being spent to get the rights ALREADY TAKEN back, anyone, anyone?

Why is it that the most important property right anyone talks about is gun property. What about the other property rights you have already lost, immenent domain, the fact that the Bush Admin seized weapons from citizens in New Orleans and some of those weapons have still yet to be returned. Again where was the NRA on that, where was Limbag on that? Oh they were negros with guns, we can't have that now can we.

So no offense TFOG, but if your screaming about little property rights right now, your about 8 years late to the party, Bush took more property rights from you then any gun ban will ever serve to do.

The government, Rethuglicans and Demoncrats are assaulting your liberties, they like to play this partisan game called 'point the finger' so you target your ire and anger twords the other party. For Rethugs its gun rights, for demoncrats its abortion, it keeps both sides crying about little shit, while they steal the things that really matter right from under your nose.

But hey, its easier to blame the Rethuglicans or Demoncrats for all the problems rather then really changing things. You know why there are 2 parties? Its easier to just write 2 checks......