So here is a ?

[TFOGGuys]

What about trespassers?

They make wonderful fertilizer....

[Rhino]

Nice!!! A little humor in this thread is good.

Ammo in a gunfight is like bubble gum in school. If you don't have enough for everyone, you're in trouble.

[Zach929rr]

tl;dr

[lightspeed]

The key here is "unlawfully". If you are in fear of "great bodily harm", even if no actual physical assault has occurred, the justification for using a firearm to hold someone for LEOs MAY be there.

.

Operative word is May...lol. In a one on one encounter with a person who has no weapon...this is just in most cases not necessary in my opinion. So, why take that chance of pulling your piece and possibly escalating the situation further by involving a deadly weapon in the mix? Thing is...if you draw, you better have a lawful reason to shoot, and not just be suffering from self esteem issues and need a boost. Some people (not necessarily anyone in this discussion) are scared of gnats and so are looking for reasons to carry and pull out their 357 while imagining being in one of those old Clint Eastwood movies my dad used to watch 50 million times. "Make my day punk".

[lightspeed]

Ponder this, an enraged male approaches a female. The male is 6'+ 200lbs+. The female is 5'8" and 120-130lbs. Do you really expect the female to have a fist fight defending herself from the male?

Another scenario, two males this time. One is 5'8" 150lbs. The other again is 6'+ and 200lbs+. The smaller stature male is not trained in any martial arts or combative arts. It is reasonable to assume the smaller male would receive "great bodily injury" if a fight ensued?

This is what will be presented to a jury to decide. While I do value SOME human life, the only unfair fight is the one you lose.

Agreed on the two or three to one scenario,and a female being in a situation with a male even slightly larger than she...however, a one on one scenario with two men...(even if one is significantly bigger) is no excuse not to be able to handle yourself without using deadly force. Now if the dude is a b*tch (meaning he's frightened of his shadow) with no hand or self defense skills...then before he finds himself in that situation...maybe he should go get his white belt in Taikwondo down at the Y...lol before getting a CCW permit.

No..seriously, I'm just admittedly a little biased, since I've studied combat martial arts for quite a few years. And while being in many situations involving angry beer/testosterome sp? filled dudes...most of the time I didn't ever have to pull my blade..and my sig wasn't even the faintest thought. Most of these people out here are in fear just like many CCWers and not looking for trouble.

[The Black Knight]

Agreed on the two or three to one scenario,and a female being in a situation with a male even slightly larger than she...however, a one on one scenario with two men...(even if one is significantly bigger) is no excuse not to be able to handle yourself without using deadly force. Now if the dude is a b*tch (meaning he's frightened of his shadow) with no hand or self defense skills...then before he finds himself in that situation...maybe he should go get his white belt in Taikwondo down at the Y...lol before getting a CCW permit.

No..seriously, I'm just admittedly a little biased, since I've studied combat martial arts for quite a few years. And while being in many situations involving angry beer/testosterome sp? filled dudes...most of the time I didn't even have to pull my blade..and my sig wasn't even the faintest thought. Most of these people out here are in fear just like many CCWers and not looking for trouble.

So if someone doesn't practice the martial arts they are a B**ch? And also how are many CCW holders living in fear? I know I'm not looking for trouble but can say I'm living in fear of nothing. I guess I'm not understanding what you mean here.

And while I respect the martial arts and believe they have their place in self-defense tactics. I will have to agree with the legendary Jeff Cooper on his quote about martial arts:
"Bushido is all very well in its way, but it is no match for a 30-06."

[Knuckle Dragger]

Again as i stated before in my training: hold the person at bay at least three arm lenghts once they enter two tell them to step back if they ignore draw. Got to ready postion (gun pointed 45 degrees at the ground finger off the trigger. If they still advance assume firing postion and commit to to the situation. Now you may beleive in picking up your teeth in a puddle of blood to "justify". I on the other hand would all togeather avoid any physical contact and allow the other person to "smile and what for the flash". After all if I allow him to contact me then there is more then a good chance he can take my weapon now I have armed a hot head. That is why you keep them at two arm lenghth min. at all times. Now you can keep playing devil advocate all you want I beleive the marjority has spoken; I beleive fact has been provided; as well as law and I would say the marjority has said it was a just situation; huh kinda like a jury would.

[Panman06]

Agreed on the two or three to one scenario,and a female being in a situation with a male even slightly larger than she...however, a one on one scenario with two men...(even if one is significantly bigger) is no excuse not to be able to handle yourself without using deadly force. Now if the dude is a b*tch (meaning he's frightened of his shadow) with no hand or self defense skills...then before he finds himself in that situation...maybe he should go get his white belt in Taikwondo down at the Y...lol before getting a CCW permit.

No..seriously, I'm just admittedly a little biased, since I've studied combat martial arts for quite a few years. And while being in many situations involving angry beer/testosterome sp? filled dudes...most of the time I didn't even have to pull my blade..and my sig wasn't even the faintest thought. Most of these people out here are in fear just like many CCWers and not looking for trouble.

No offense, but I find your arrogance amusing. I learned long ago, that despite how much training you get under your belt, there is always someone bigger and more skilled. You wouldn't happen to have studied at the Cobra Kai?

Now, if someone was to draw on you, they could argue that you are highly trained. The fact that you have studied combat martial arts made you a deadly threat. Therefore, the shooting is justified. Doesn't matter that you think he's a bitch...you're a slab on a corner's table and he's alive.

If you ever had to draw down on anyone, the DA would question why you didn't disarm the assailant with your "combat martial arts." You are better trained than your attacker and could have easily stopped the threat without resorting to your firearm. You are all of a sudden portrayed as trigger happy since you could have used martial arts.

There is always going to be someone who has more hand to hand skill than you. They may be smaller than you are and may not have the same respect for life as you. Question is, when you finally encounter someone who has more skill and less respect for life...will you resort to a weapon? Or would that make you a bitch?

I have Aikido, Krav Maga, and Shotokan under my belt. However, when sh!t hits the fan, I'm putting my faith in my .40 or .45. I'll leave the fancy stuff to Steven Segal. (He's a Navy SEAL you know...)

In my eyes, Knuckle did the right thing. If Knuckle did cut the guy off, the guy should have reported Knuckle's plates to CSP. Also, Knuckle is not under any legal restrictions; therefore he had every right to be where he was.

[The Black Knight]

No offense, but I find your arrogance amusing. I learned long ago, that despite how much training you get under your belt, there is always someone bigger and more skilled. You wouldn't happen to have studied at the Cobra Kai?

Are you kidding, when you're "The Best Around and nothing is going to keep you down" all you do is keep "sweeping the leg" and you're right out of that situation.

[lightspeed]

So if someone doesn't practice the martial arts they are a B**ch? And also how are many CCW holders living in fear? I know I'm not looking for trouble but can say I'm living in fear of nothing. I guess I'm not understanding what you mean here.

And while I respect the martial arts and believe they have their place in self-defense tactics. I will have to agree with the legendary Jeff Cooper on his quote about martial arts:
"Bushido is all very well in its way, but it is no match for a 30-06."

Come on man....if you read my post I said..."b*tch (meaning he's frightened of his shadow). I clarified this for you.

Bushido is a way of life, a code not necessarily relating to combat. But realistically the function of a weapon is truely dependant on the skills of the person using that weapon. A blade or the tip of a pen in the hands of any skilled practitioner can most certainly be a match for a person carrying a gun in a close quarters situation IMO.

[lightspeed]

No offense, but I find your arrogance amusing. I learned long ago, that despite how much training you get under your belt, there is always someone bigger and more skilled. You wouldn't happen to have studied at the Cobra Kai?

Now, if someone was to draw on you, they could argue that you are highly trained. The fact that you have studied combat martial arts made you a deadly threat. Therefore, the shooting is justified. Doesn't matter that you think he's a bitch...you're a slab on a corner's table and he's alive.

If you ever had to draw down on anyone, the DA would question why you didn't disarm the assailant with your "combat martial arts." You are better trained than your attacker and could have easily stopped the threat without resorting to your firearm. You are all of a sudden portrayed as trigger happy since you could have used martial arts.

There is always going to be someone who has more hand to hand skill than you. They may be smaller than you are and may not have the same respect for life as you. Question is, when you finally encounter someone who has more skill and less respect for life...will you resort to a weapon? Or would that make you a bitch?

I have Aikido, Krav Maga, and Shotokan under my belt. However, when sh!t hits the fan, I'm putting my faith in my .40 or .45. I'll leave the fancy stuff to Steven Segal. (He's a Navy SEAL you know...)

In my eyes, Knuckle did the right thing. If Knuckle did cut the guy off, the guy should have reported Knuckle's plates to CSP. Also, Knuckle is not under any legal restrictions; therefore he had every right to be where he was.

Wow...a little sensitive about the b*tch comment. That wasn't aimed at anyone specific...just making the point that if someone is frightened, they should consider a little training in other areas maybe in addition to CCW so that they may have other options instead of just resorting to pulling out a 45.

And, I don't mean to sound arrogant. Just giving my perspective from my experience dealing with these types of situations. A gun is very seldom necessary. BTW who's the cobra kai?

Responding to the question of encountering someone with more skills than I... I'm really average as it relates to skills with blades, hand guns and my hands, so I've encountered lots of guys better than I. But, most people who have had the discipline to learn to do more than pull a trigger also don't look to get into situations that require the use of those skills. However, if I were in that situation....I would resort to what ever tool was most capable of handling the situation....whether that be my hands, a pen, a wrench, a blade, a toothpick, a gun or whatever. My last option would be posting up on some one to pull a trigger. But that's me.