I have a problem when I open up the throttle all the way while riding it doesn't respond. It lags and hessitates and doesn't kick in later. The bike is an 01. What the heck is going on here?
I don't ride it rough and I rarely open up the trottle past half anyway. Could that have something to do with it.
Mine is the same way, is it carbeurated or FI? I was told it was because of it being carbeurated. True?
Mine is carbed. I was thinking it was something like a clogged jet. But I wanted a second opinion before I tore into it.
When I really crack the throttle, It'll bog for about 1/2 second then go. I was told because it just doesn't have the fuel it needs that quickly. I was told with FI that when you crack it, it goes!!!
Mine bogs when I crack it open and in gear. It should go but doesn't and it tops out at 7k RPMs. However, when I have it in neutral I can rev it until it bounces of the limiter.
could be you need to syncro your carbs also, it makes a huge difference.
Originally Posted by salsashark
and you did it!
the rest of us were just thinking it.
http://www.myspace.com/adrenalineaddiction24
01 zx9r
99 r6 (race bike)
How many miles on your ZX? Have the carbs ever been over-hauled? Have they been jetted for our elevation? Stock air box or pods?
John
KTM Duke 690
Sug and David-Both you guys sound like you're running rich. The air is thin up here, so you may need to flow more air or drop your needles. There are several ways to see if you're rich, but looking at the plugs is the best indicator.
David-The 7k RPM almost makes me wonder if it's related to the ram air on your Zed, but I am just not familiar enough with the system to say for sure. Just something that popped into my mind. I still wonder if your plugs are dirty.
Sug-Carbed or not, your bike shouldn't run like that. It sounds like it's getting too much fuel to me. If your carbs are adjusted right it'll rip. My carbed bikes do.
I last synchronized them in 2007. But I haven't had them checked lately.
I have 35k miles. The carbs haven't been overhauled either. I don't know if they were rejetted either? Stock air box with a K&N filter though.
I can get the RPM's up in lower gears (I think) but upper gears like 4 and 5 it cuts out and bogs. I have been smelling gas real bad during and a little after I fixed the choke problem. I could have fouled a plug. I wasn't riding it hard enough to do anything with that extra gas.
I think I am going to have to open everything back up and look.
So is this a new problem, like since you last tore into the carbs, or has it been a problem the whole time you've owned the bike?I last synchronized them in 2007. But I haven't had them checked lately.
I have 35k miles. The carbs haven't been overhauled either. I don't know if they were rejetted either? Stock air box with a K&N filter though.
I can get the RPM's up in lower gears (I think) but upper gears like 4 and 5 it cuts out and bogs. I have been smelling gas real bad during and a little after I fixed the choke problem. I could have fouled a plug. I wasn't riding it hard enough to do anything with that extra gas.
I think I am going to have to open everything back up and look
I think its new. I don't get many chances to open her up all the way I am gentle opening the throttle and I am doing 55 and passing people. But last season I took it down a highway and had open for a while, like 20 miles or so. I didn't notice it lagging at all. I got shit milage this last time out. 60 miles before I had to refill. That could have been from me gunning it to see what its doing but damn that bad.
Here is what I am going to do first.
Check the plugs. If there fine I am going to move on to the carbs.
Sync them first... then take them off and see if a jet is clogged. Please tell there is a easier way before I take off the carbs? Or if you a different idea of troubleshooting routes?
Then I should have narrowed down the problem.
The jet tubes are probably worn, which will make it run rich no matter the main jet size. Go here
http://www.flatoutmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=408026&category=M otorcycles&make=Kawasaki&year=2001&fveh=9291
and order four of part number 13280 (or order them thru a local dealer). Give Wade or DK a call at 303cycle at 720-219-8433 and have them order four carb rebuilt kits (about $20 each). Check the service manual for the stock jetting. Your bike will run richer at elevation so the stock jetting is the best starting point if it has been changed.
Last edited by FZRguy; Sat Jun 13th, 2009 at 10:56 AM.
John
KTM Duke 690
here is what i am thinking, stuck carb float. 60 miles to a tank is unbelievably bad, i get about 350 and i am nowhere near gentle on my throttle. a stuck float till give you a flooding smell, you will drown a cylinder and only run on 3, you will have terrible throttle response ect. if you run it for a few before checkin your plugs you should be able to see moisture on the plug of the cylinder of the bad float if thats what it is.
and you did it!
the rest of us were just thinking it.
http://www.myspace.com/adrenalineaddiction24
01 zx9r
99 r6 (race bike)
You can order some plated jet tubes from Factory Pro and they will last forever, but are pricey at $25 each. Below is a great article on CV carb tuning by Marc Salvisberg of Factory Pro.
Please do not plagiarize this page - it took years to develop and write and is not based on any other previous work by anybody else. If you want to link to this page on your site, please ask - we are perfectly willing to allow links as long as proper credit is provided. Thanks - Marc
Follow steps in order....First dial in:
1. Top end (full throttle / 7.5k to redline -
Best Main Jet must be selected before starting step 2 (needle height)!
Select Best Main Jet
To get the best, most even top end power (full throttle/after 7500 rpm), select the main jet that produces the highest top speed / pulls hardest at high rpm.
If the bike pulls harder at high rpm when cold and less hard when fully warmed up, the main jet is too large. Install a smaller main jet and retest until you find the main jet that pulls the hardest at high rpm when fully warmed up. This must be done first - before moving on to the other tuning ranges.
If the bike doesn't pull well at high rpm when cold and gets only slightly better when fully warmed up, the main jet is too small.
In order to properly tune the midrange and low rpm carburetion, THE MAIN JET MUST FIRST BE PROPERLY SELECTED after 10 to 15 minutes of hard use!
Do not pay too much attention to the low-end richness when you are changing main jets - you still need to be using the main jets that produce the best power at high rpm. You will deal with the low-end / cruise later - after step 2.
2. Midrange (full throttle /5k-7k)
Step 1 (Best Main Jet) must be selected before starting step 2!
Select best needle clip position
To get the best power at full throttle / 5k-7k rpm, adjust the needle height, after you have already selected the best main jet.
If the engine pulls better or is smoother at full throttle/5k-7k in a full throttle roll-on starting at <3k when cool but soft and/or rough when at full operating temperature, it is too rich in the midrange and the needle should be lowered.
If the engine pulls better when fully warmed up but still not great between 5k-7k, try raising the needle to richen 5k-7k.
If the engine pulls equally well between 5k-7k when cooler as compared to fully warmed up, the needle height is probably properly set.
Do not pay too much attention to the low-end richness when you are changing needle clip positions - you still need to be using the clip position that produces the best full throttle / 5k-7k power in conjunction with the main jets (Step 1) that produce the best power at high rpm. You will deal with the low-end / cruise next.
3. Low end (full throttle / 2k-3k)
Step 1 (Best Main Jet) and Step 2 (needle height) must be selected before starting step 3!
Float height (AKA fuel level & how to..)
To get best low-end power, set float height (fuel level) so that the engine will accept full throttle, without missing or stumbling, in 2nd gear from 2.5k to 3k rpm at minimum.
Float heights, unless otherwise specified in the installation guide, are measured from the "gasket surface" of the carb body to the highest part of the top of the float - with the float tang touching but not compressing the float valve spring.
If the engine has a "wet" rhythmic, soggy area at full throttle / 3k-4k rpm, that gets worse as the engine heats up, lower the fuel level by resetting the float height 1mm greater (if the original was 13mm - go to 14mm). This will lower the fuel level, making full throttle / 2k-3k rpm leaner.
If the engine is "dry" and flat between 2k to 3k rpm, raise the fuel level.
Example: change float height from 15mm to 14mm to richen up that area.
REMEMBER, since the main jet WILL affect low speed operation, the MAIN JET has to be within 1 or 2 sizes of correct before final float setting.
Warning: If the engine is left with the fuel level too high,, the engine may foul plugs on the street and will be "soft" and boggy at part throttle operation. Adjust Floats to raise/ lower the Fuel Level.
Base settings are usually given if a particular application has a history of fuel level criticalness. The Fuel level height in the float bowl affects full throttle/low rpm and, also, richness or leanness at cruise/low rpm.
Reference: a bike that runs cleanly at small throttle openings when cold, but starts to show signs of richness as it heats up to full operating temperature, will usually be leaned out enough to be correct if the fuel level is LOWERED 1mm. Check out and RESET all: Suzuki (all), Yamaha (all) and Kawasaki (if low speed problems occur). Needless to say, FUEL LEVEL IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!
If there are low-end richness problems, even after lowering the fuel level much more than 1.5mm from our initial settings, check for needle wear and needle jet (part of the emulsion tube). See Worn Needle and Worn Needle Jet diagram. It is VERY common for the brass needle jets (in the top of the "emulsion tube") in 36mm, 38mm and 40mm Mikuni CV carbs to wear out in as little as 5,000 miles. Check them for "oblong" wear - the needle jet orifice starts out round! Factory Pro produces stock replacement needle jets / emulsion tubes for 36mm and 38mm Mikuni carbs. Click here
4. Idle and low rpm cruise
Fuel Screw setting (AKA mixture screws)
There is usually a machined brass or aluminum cap over the fuel screws on all but newer Honda. It's about the diameter of a pencil. Cap removal details. Newer Honda carbs have no caps, but use a special "D" shaped driver, usually supplied in the carb recal kit. We do have them available separately, too. 800 869-0497 to order -
Set for smoothest idle and 2nd gear, 4k rpm, steady state cruise operation. Set mixture screws at recommended settings, as a starting point. For smoothest idle, 2nd gear 4000 rpm steady state cruise , and 1/8 throttle high rpm operation. (pj tuning information)
Pilot fuel mixture screw settings, float level (but, you've "fixed" the fuel level in Step 3 - which you have already done!) AND pilot jet size are the primary sources of mixture delivery during 4000 rpm steady state cruise operation.
If lean surging is encountered, richen mixture screws (turn out) in 1/2 turn increments. Alternative pilot jets are supplied when normally required.
Pilot fuel mixture screw settings, float level and pilot jet size also affect high-rpm, 0 to 1/8 throttle maneuvers. Too lean, will cause surging problems when the engine is operated at high rpm at small throttle openings! Opening the mixture screws and/or increasing pilot jet size will usually cure the problem.
NOTE: A rich problem gets worse as the engine heats up.
If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm drops below the set idle speed, then rises up to the set idle speed, the low speed mixture screws are probably set too rich: try 1/2 turn in, to lean the idle mixture.
NOTE: A lean problem gets better as the engine heats up.
If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm "hangs up" before dropping to the set idle speed, and there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1000 rpm, the mixture screws are probably too lean: try 1/2 turn out, to richen mixture. Be sure there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1000 rpm!
Carb Kit Design is a combination of science, art, intuition and and at times, a fair dose of wizardry. There is no dyno that "tells" one how to assemble or modify the carb to deliver proper power and response.
Perfect Carb Kit TUNING requires patience and perseverance and "reasonable" feel to feel the changes - of which - most motorcycle riders have a good ability to do.
When a dyno "operator" says he/she has to ride the bike after dyno tuning to do the final tune for cruise smoothness - that's what they are doing. Avoid any dyno operator who says that they don't have to do that!!!
The only dyno that I know of that will duplicate and visually display the engine smoothness is the EC997 dyno (yes, I know, we make it) - that's one reason why, if you can, you'd like to use one for tuning - a smoother engine IS getting the best mixture. Other dynos claim to "tune to an "A/F Ratio" - probably the biggest marketing scheme in the dyno industry at this time - and they never can equal the quality of tune as designed -
These tuning kits have been thoroughly tested to ensure easy, trouble-free, optimized performance.
Please note: If you have installed the kit and gone through the optional screw settings, clip positions and main jets, and still have a persistent flat spot/problem, we ask you to call us. Unique engine / exhaust / filter / altitude / temperature combinations may require individualized setups. We are here to help. The information gained to your solution will be installed in our computerized reference database. PLEASE CALL!
We ask that upon completion of installation and tuning, that you call us with specifications of your installation, (pipe brand, filters, advancer, altitude, humidity, temperature and final carb settings) to be entered in our TUNING DATABASE. The database allows us to include the "most used" jet sizes and setup specifications in every kit.
Use (415) 491-5920, (800) 869-0497 or fax (415) 492-8803.
Thanks!
Marc W. Salvisberg
John
KTM Duke 690
I don't know what's going on here with my bike but the lagging/bogging that was going on seams to be all but cleared up. All I have done with the bike since I worked on it was drive it about 50 miles and filled up at shell mid range gas. I'm not sure that I will have to open up the carbs for an overhaul now.
I would love to get 350 mp tank or close to it like Jim said he gets. Should an overhaul still be done?
Can anyone loan me or help me sync my carbs, too? I don't have a set of synchronization gauges but they are my list tools I need.
Thanks in advance.
Carb synch is idle and just off idle. It won't help your bog or mileage issue. I can guarantee the jet tubes are worn and need replacing.
Last edited by FZRguy; Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 12:31 PM.
John
KTM Duke 690
Thanks. I will start the overhaul then.
What mileage do you get?
Right around 60 with stock jetting.
John
KTM Duke 690
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forum...0&postcount=12
Here is a picture of the plugs. I am going to start the carb overhaul soon unless I hear back about the plug problem.
I think that I put these pictures in the wrong thread anyway. I need some advice here.
The plugs don't look great. Didn't you say there are only 500 miles on them? I would clean them up and reuse them, but your problem seems to be running rich.
It was mentioned before that altitude makes your bike lean. That is backwards, as the thin air makes it richer. Also, if your bike used to haul ass and doesn't now, it has nothing to do with needing it jetted for altitude. If you lived in San Diego and it hauled ass, and now it bogs in Colorado, then you need a rejet for altitude.
FZRguy may have nailed it with the worn emulsion tubes. On the old EXUP boards we used to do group buys on the tubes from Factory Pro. The stockers were worthless, and when worn, would cause the bike to run rich and get horrible fuel mileage. You can read some info here:
http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prody02.html
With as many miles as you have, a carb rebuild is a good idea. You could check the tubes while you are in there. Check on your bike specific forum and see if the tubes are a common problem for your ride at your mileage. You could also call Marc at FP and see what he thinks. Very cool dude, and he'll give you an honest answer. I don't see tubes for your bike on their site, which makes me think maybe it isn't happening to everyone. If there were a market for them (like with the Yammys), Marc would probably make them. Although, if it took them 35,000 miles to wear out, there may not be a market and stock replacements are the way to go. The Yammy ones could be toast in as little as 5k, so an aftermarket solution was necessary.
Ask your mates at whatever Zed club you belong to and see what they think. Please don't tell me you don't belong to some bike specific forum. If you don't, find one and join. You can get general help out here, but it isn't the same as having the input of thousands of people who own your bike and have experienced various issues.
Last edited by BHeth; Sat Jun 13th, 2009 at 06:02 AM.
Correct, my bad.
John
KTM Duke 690
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