CDR Rumor mill

[voncon]

My comparison to the Macau and the Isle of Mann were just that -- a joke. Those tracks and what they do on them are far more dangerous than what we do. I am all about safety myself, and would like to think that I don't take too many unecessary risks... but there aren't a bunch of affordable PPIR's to run on (Short of this year's Racing 2 Save Lives - nudge nudge).

I actually came up in racing on the east coast. Summit Point WV was my home track and what a haven it was. Nelson Ledges was a death trap to us, but it still had gobs of run off when you did fall and slide to a stop. Pocono and Rockingham were our scariest because of the walls... in fact it wasn't long after I was racing here that Loudon fonally got scrapped by the AMA -- of course the CCS and the Loudon club still race there.

If CDR is on the schedule will I race it? Yes. Will I concentrate on being more careful than sporting? Maybe.

[Deuce]

If any of you cry babies wanna skip CDR it's okay with me.

Deuce

Yup!!! Feel free to skip La Junta, too!!!!! Might as well leave out Pueblo, it's pretty far away, ya know...

See ya at ALL the tracks, Sean!!

Those of us with tight budgets gotta make tough choices. Trust me if it was up to me and money was abundent I woulda been at every race and done a hell of alot better in points last year. Such is life.

As far as CDR. I rode there once last year. While it was alright to lap on with a few bikes on it I think that a big grid of bikes is nuts. I wasn't planning on really racing at CDR in the first place. Just going out and doing laps and picking up points. I thought us going there in the first place was rediculous in the first place but bitching and moaning does little good so I was reserved to go and keep my mouth shut. I'd rather do a weekend at SCR anyday over CDR. Makes little sense that this being the last year of SCR were not taking every avaliable opportunity to race there. Since next year is gonna bite. Just my opinion.


Deuce

[The GECCO]

Eugene I will add you to the list of 30+ riders that I know of that don't want to race this track

Funny, not a single person has had any direct communication with me with the specific intent of saying that they are opposed to racing there. My phone and email both work pretty well, they're right there on the MRA site, but the only place people voice their opposition is here...

Ray-Ray and I were talking to track Bob @ SCR a couple weeks ago and he mentioned that SCR was available for that (CDR) weekend

Not exactly true, that Sunday is reserved by one of the smaller car clubs, but because the 2-day events take precedent Bob has told me he would be willing to give them the boot for us. How would you feel if you were a member of THAT club?

When Someone hits that wall and dies.. are you going tell their families to "Relax" ?

ummm......Can anyone name a track in Colorado that DOESN'T have a wall at the exit of a turn?? That's right, there isn't one...

Makes little sense that this being the last year of SCR were not taking every avaliable opportunity to race there

No, what makes no sense is to NOT go to CDR this year so they have even LESS incentive (and money) to make improvements for '06 when we WILL need the facility. If we can do one event there this year and use that as a learning experience we can give them educated and sustantiated feedback about what else needs to be done. It shows we have the intention to return IF they will do the work. So many people assume they will throw half a million dollars into the facility with absolutely no show of good faith that we will even race there! Does that sound reasonable to anyone? Would YOU do it if it were your money?

Look at what we are facing in '06 - It's doubtful the new track will be ready....in '04 SCR was booked for 33 weekends, so was Pueblo, so was PPIR. La Junta was as busy as they want to be considering they are an all volunteer staff, basically they were booked except for most of July and August (for obvious reasons). So, when you take away all 33 weekends at SCR, where are all the clubs gonna race? The other tracks are already full now, they sure as hell can't accommodate another 33 events! If we don't give CDR some incentive in '05 to make the track better for '06 we are looking at a 6 or 7 event season tops, unless we go out of state.

The specific reason that SCR isn't booked solid this year is because the tracks operate on what is known as "traditional dates". If you have a certain weekend in '05, you have first rights to it in '06. So, all the clubs, MRA included, put a priority on scheduling '05 events at the tracks that will be open in '06 because they know that if they don't they won't have shit for race dates in '06. You can't be short sighted or you're f#@ked.

So, we are taking a chance to try and build a relationship with CDR in the hopes that it will pay off. Will it? I don't know, but it seems silly to not even try.

For those that think the track sucks so bad, well...I agree...it's not my first choice either. So, don't race there. Or, go there with the mindset that the track isn't perfect and your main goal for the weekend is to stay upright. What gets me is that all these people will bitch about the track and then they will crash while riding at 110% trying to dive-bomb someone for the lead...and then blame the track, as if the track suddenly changed from the last lap when it was perfect. If you know ahead of time that it isn't that great you have even less of an excuse for crashing. Winning races and championships isn't just about riding fast, it's also about riding smart, sometimes riding smart means not riding fast. That's what that whole weekend will be about, IMHO...kinda like this:

If CDR is on the schedule will I race it? Yes. Will I concentrate on being more careful than sporting? Maybe

Well, at least ONE person gets it...

[Lurch]

Well Glenn to tell you the turth most people will not voice there opinion about anything in this club because they are affraid of the political BS thats goes with it. When someone does they are flamed by people on the board and past members that think they know what is going on and haven't been involved in the club for years. So to answer your question about why people don't voice there opinion well at least 4 have on this post alone so maybe we are out here.

So my question is are we going to race there if the improvements aren't made? Are we going to run schools there if the improvements aren't made? Why after 5 years are we going back to a track that the previous boards deemed unsafe?

If the only reason to run there is the thought that we are not going to have a track in 06 then maybe we should look elsewhere to race. Other clubs run plently of out-of-state races. I know of 3 tracks with in 10 hours of Denver.

The walls that are being talked about aren't on the exit of turns but in the impact zones of turns. Turn 3,7, and 9 to be specific. Either last year or the year before we had students hit both walls/guard rails in T7 and 9 and that was a school. What is going to happen at race pace?

You and I may know to slow down on a shitty track but tell that to the other 100 riders that may attend the CDR race to slow down because the track is unsafe. That makes sense.....

and the reason stuff is posted here and not on the MRA groups page is that the groups page is a POS and is hardly followed anymore.

Lurch

[Kim-n-Dean]

So, we are taking a chance to try and build a relationship with CDR in the hopes that it will pay off. Will it? I don't know, but it seems silly to not even try.

I totally agree. We make the first move to show good faith. If CDR doesn't come through, then F 'em. We tried.

So my question is are we going to race there if the improvements aren't made? Are we going to run schools there if the improvements aren't made? Why after 5 years are we going back to a track that the previous boards deemed unsafe?
Lurch

These are good points, too. Glad I'm not the one who has to figure all this shit out!!!

Before I went to La Junat everyone told me how bad it was. Terrible surface and such. I was nervous and a little scared. When I got there, I thought it was awesome. I even won that race. Since I've never been to CDR, all this talk has me nervous again. I guess I'll find out soon enough...

[RSVR4aCowboy]

No, what makes no sense is to NOT go to CDR this year so they have even LESS incentive (and money) to make improvements for '06 when we WILL need the facility. If we can do one event there this year and use that as a learning experience we can give them educated and sustantiated feedback about what else needs to be done. It shows we have the intention to return IF they will do the work. So many people assume they will throw half a million dollars into the facility with absolutely no show of good faith that we will even race there! Does that sound reasonable to anyone? Would YOU do it if it were your money?

I don't really agree. It seems feedback has been given to CDR. If we stopped racing there because of issues and they haven't made the changes needed, why would we expect them to do it now. If I am a business that wants a customer's business, I don't tell them to put money in my pocket before I will do the things to earn their business. That is similar to an employee asking for a raise and saying when they get it, they'll start doing more work. If they are interested in having clubs race there, show some "good faith" and show you want my business. It sounds like our good faith was shown prior to issues that resulted in our decision to stop racing there. Maybe I don't totally understand our relationships with the tracks. Are the tracks the business and the car clubs the customer, or vice-vesa? Just my two cents
I still think we are fortunate with or without CDR compared to most clubs in the US in that we have three tracks within a 2.5 hour drive.
All right, let the flaming begin.

[ebazyl]

Eugene I will add you to the list of 30+ riders that I know of that don't want to race this track

Funny, not a single person has had any direct communication with me with the specific intent of saying that they are opposed to racing there. My phone and email both work pretty well, they're right there on the MRA site, but the only place people voice their opposition is here...

Fair enough, I should have mentioned something to you about it before going on the boards and expessing my discontenet with the CURRENT condition of CDR. That I my bad, and I am sorry about that.

Lurch - I do appreciate you standing up the interests of the wimmpty riders.

Now my rant:
1. The MRA is in a very difficult possition, and I understand where Glen is comming from and what he is trying to do. Glen rode the train in December so he know the conditions, and can make an informed decision.
2. MRA officials know a lot more about dealing with such situations, as well as investing in the future of the club, so they are in a better possition to decide then I am.
3. As bad as this sounds - If you have not riden CDR in the last year I do not think you can have an opinion. I am serious, go ride it. Not drive by it, not track walk it, no take the pit scooter or your car on it, not talk to your buddies, not remember how it was 5 years ago. GO RIDE IT, since the MRA is racing there anyways it will be good practice. I think track availability is some of the best in Colorado and it is not going to cost you $7000/day to rent like Pikes Peak. If the track is fine there is no reason for you not to take your shinny freshly painted machine there.

Let me tell you a little story about CDR:
One of my good friends and me got into an argument about that place in the summer of 2004. I said skeptical, but he was sure it was just my sinecism. He even went as far as stoping by there on the way to Berthod to show that the track was not that bad. I did not buy it. Well the only way to settle it was to go ride it. That opportunity came (I think it was Ft. Collins Motorcycle organized a free track day there). My friends was confident even at the beginning of the day. Well sure enough (look through the message board for threads about that day). I will give my friends this, the 6 different colors of pavement make it preaty easy to pick out visual track markets.

Moral of the story: Go ride it. Maybe it will turn out that I am a p***y and need to quit my bitching. Maybe the track is better then Second Creek or even Laguna Seca, can't realy tell until you go.

[Hoopty]

Gene, you are a puss, but what does that have to do with anything?

[ebazyl]

...but true

[The GECCO]

I don't really agree. It seems feedback has been given to CDR. If we stopped racing there because of issues and they haven't made the changes needed, why would we expect them to do it now.

Because the track is not either owned nor managed by the same people it was the last time we raced there. The feedback/non-action by the old owners and management is irrelevant.

[Lel]

I have been trying to take a non bias perspective while reading all of this.

When I was there in october I felt that CDR was not up to par for the size of the grids that the MRA has (safety or condition wise) HOWEVER... I also thought it was a great idea in order to spur CDR's improvements, another track is another track.

Out of everything I have read though, its not the conditions, its not the pitting or even the specific things people bring up that are unsafe that keeps getting to me (there still is a lot of time before we will race there for imporvements to be done, so I am HOPING that happens)

It is the fact that the MRA left there (when it was smaller) becuase it was unsafe then! From what it sounds like nothing has been changed since that point, and the MRA has grown. If changes are made, awesome we are going to have a great time racing there, its why we do it. However if nothing is, or has been done I kind of have the feeling mike said; like an employee asking for a raise before they do the work.

I am still excited, but scared at the same time to race there. I believe the season is going ot be fun no matter what. I guess Ill pose the question, if there are things in 'mind' that has to be done before we race there... or things that the CMC said they want to have fixed what were they? What are the plans this year other than 'its going to be better' ? Are they resealing the track? Fixing the dragon slide? fixing turn 9? I think if we had some insight (I have been to all the MRA meetings in the past year... except for last months) and I dont know whats going on to be fixed.

[The GECCO]

If the only reason to run there is the thought that we are not going to have a track in 06 then maybe we should look elsewhere to race. Other clubs run plently of out-of-state races. I know of 3 tracks with in 10 hours of Denver.

You must have a pretty short memory....do you not remember the uproar when we even suggested the possibility of an out-of-state race? I remember more than 30 people being opposed.

Besides that, both Sandia and MAM cost more to rent than what we are paying for PPIR this year, MAM is nearly twice as much. Who will cornerwork? You know our people won't take 2 extra days off and drive 10 hours for $70/day. Even if we doubled the pay I bet they wouldn't come, but let's say we do that. Without a long term arrangement with a local ambulance company, that service will also cost more. All the support staff that gets hotel rooms covered is also staying twice as many nights.

So, because the costs have virtually doubled and half the club would skip it....your entry fees just went up 300-400% for that event. Still wanna go?

[ebazyl]

Jason brings up a good point: If I knew exactly what they are improving and when I would have less heartburn.

I still disagree with him on buying Mayo in 5 Gallon Sam's Club drums.

[Lel]

I still disagree with him on buying Mayo in 5 Gallon Sam's Club drums.

mayo is gross... its ketchup! ketchup that isnt kept in the refrigerator!

haha

[ebazyl]

mayo IS gross

[Lurch]

If the only reason to run there is the thought that we are not going to have a track in 06 then maybe we should look elsewhere to race. Other clubs run plently of out-of-state races. I know of 3 tracks with in 10 hours of Denver.

You must have a pretty short memory....do you not remember the uproar when we even suggested the possibility of an out-of-state race? I remember more than 30 people being opposed.

Besides that, both Sandia and MAM cost more to rent than what we are paying for PPIR this year, MAM is nearly twice as much. Who will cornerwork? You know our people won't take 2 extra days off and drive 10 hours for $70/day. Even if we doubled the pay I bet
\ they wouldn't come, but let's say we do that. Without a long term arrangement
with a local ambulance company, that service will also cost more. All the support staff that gets hotel rooms covered is also staying twice as many nights.

So, because the costs have virtually doubled and half the club would skip it....your entry fees just went up 300-400% for that event. Still wanna go?

Glenn,

I have one word Steamboat. This club would travel up there every year (granted it's only 3 hours away) except for the last 3 fronting 1/2 of the bill for the construction of the track.bridges, very expensive rooms for the corner workers, etc. If that race ever had a problem with weather or poor attendence this club would not exist. Racers would take 4 days off work and go stay in $400 a night condos just to race on Sunday.

My problem with this post is we are asking questions and all you do is slam our solutions. Maybe if you answered the questions we have we would feel
at little more at ease.

Glenn to answer your question about MAM for the price of the weekend, yes it's expensive, but it also includes ambulence,corner workers etc. So if you factor those expenses in the cost is not much more then what we pay now to rent a track and pay all the extra expenses.

Besides if we promote MAM a little more people would want to go. I never did until I found out they have casinos and boobie bars 30 minutes away. I'm now looking at our schedule,CMRA and CRA and seeing if I can make a race or two.

Lurch

[Anonymous]

ummm......Can anyone name a track in Colorado that DOESN'T have a wall at the exit of a turn?? That's right, there isn't one...

La Junta?

[ebazyl]

There is actualy a wall coming on to the stait.

[Anonymous]

I know there's a wall along the straight, I just couldn't remember how close to the corner it started. Besides, isn't there some run-off between the track & the wall there?

[ebazyl]

I think there is about a 5-20 foot paved run off, not sure if you can blow of on that turn.

[The GECCO]

My problem with this post is we are asking questions and all you do is slam our solutions. Maybe if you answered the questions we have we would feel at little more at ease.

Doug, I answered most of the questions about what is planned for the track and the spectators to the best of my abilities (given the information available to me) at the last two general meetings that you haven't bothered to attend. At this point there is nothing I could say that would placate you.

As far as slamming your solutions - the only "solutions" I see here are to change the schedule....it's a little late for that. I announced LONG ago that 05 would almost certainly have a CDR date and, as I said before, not gotten a single email or phone call from someone who specifically said "I don't think we should go there".

You know, it wasn't long ago you were on the board and were very vocal about insulting people who stirred the pot in exactly the fashion you are doing here. Funny how a few months can change things....if you are so concerned why not gather up the names of your 30+ riders and present a statement on their behalf at either a board or general meeting? I guess it's just easier to bitch in a public forum that has very little to do with the club itself.

I'm done here, I tried to resist getting involved in this discussion here because I knew it would be exactly this pointless, but it didn't work...my mistake. Flame on.

[Lurch]

My problem with this post is we are asking questions and all you do is slam our solutions. Maybe if you answered the questions we have we would feel at little more at ease.

Doug, I answered most of the questions about what is planned for the track and the spectators to the best of my abilities (given the information available to me) at the last two general meetings that you haven't bothered to attend. At this point there is nothing I could say that would placate you.

As far as slamming your solutions - the only "solutions" I see here are to change the schedule....it's a little late for that. I announced LONG ago that 05 would almost certainly have a CDR date and, as I said before, not gotten a single email or phone call from someone who specifically said "I don't think we should go there".

You know, it wasn't long ago you were on the board and were very vocal about insulting people who stirred the pot in exactly the fashion you are doing here. Funny how a few months can change things....if you are so concerned why not gather up the names of your 30+ riders and present a statement on their behalf at either a board or general meeting? I guess it's just easier to bitch in a public forum that has very little to do with the club itself.

I'm done here, I tried to resist getting involved in this discussion here because I knew it would be exactly this pointless, but it didn't work...my mistake. Flame on.

Ummmm No you didn't:


Officer?s reports:
Ø President?Glenn Conser
· Banquet tickets?will try to get the remainder in the mail to people this Friday or Saturday. There may be a few extra tickets available at the door for purchase there. Still looking for novices to work their 2005 hours off by working the door. Glenn needs a fairly accurate head and meal count almost immediately. If you buy at the door, you may not get your first meal choice, so be prepared.
· New track?a new piece of property has been chosen and is under negotiation. A letter of intent has been drafted.
· The 2005 schedule has been set. Glenn is working on contracts for the various tracks. PPIR has been signed; the rest are in the works.



You would think after being on the board for 4 years and missing 3 meetings in those 4 years I could finally miss one and not get reamed. Guess Not...

Yes Glenn you are right about me being vocal about people stirring the pot. Who I don't like stirring the pot is people who haven't been involved in the MRA in years and still voice their opinion. Once again you would think that after 15 years of racing,2 years of Start Finish, and 5 years on the board I could stir the pot and get my questions answered.

You are also correct that I like yourself don't like to voice my opinion on a site that "that has very little to do with the club itself" but like I said the MRA site sucks.( Why isn't the hotwasabi site being used?) So I decided to use a site that has a lot of racers on it,new racers on it, and you thought so highly of this site you gave them free admission to the last race. I know it was my idea but everyone voted.

Oh and it's never too late to be safe.

Shall I move on to my next bitch or just be quiet like everyone else. Including the board....

Lurch

[NineTwoFour]

Here's my only concern. I'm not trying to criticize ANYONE.

As a newer racer, whom doesn't have the experience to really judge the safety of one venue vs. another... I have to rely upon the discretion and experience of the board members to ensure that I am not exposing myself to unneccessary risk.

Sure, I can go out there and ride a bit more conservatively... but what if the guy or gal behind me is riding balls to the wall and takes both of us out in one of these questionable spots?

So I'm torn here. I have spoken to many people whom I respect and trust in the MRA... and they fall on both sides of the issue. So who do I trust?

I don't want this issue to be decided by political BS within the club, or pressure over our relationship with CDR. I want this issue to be about the safety of all the racers in the MRA. Like it was mentioned before, a vast majority of us have to go to work on Monday morning so we can pay our mortgages.

All I want from this is to be assured that the board is looking out for my safety as well as the long term interests of the MRA.

[Cyalaytr]

just as my 2 cents in that we (CFRSR) just hosted a free club track day there and had 170+ people sign the release form. I cant tell you how many total people we had on the track for the given day but I can tell you that we ran from morning til we got rained out and had 25-35 people on the track at any given time divided into groups of those who had never been on the track / some track riding and those with experiance /raced. Durning the day we only had 2 people go down. 1 was a new rider who hit some oil from a blown motor and 1 was a younger guy we highsided or low sided out of turn 4. We were running speed and then sum with the experianced bikes and as stated before if you knew what to look for ( a few patchy pavements spots no worse then anything I have seen in the rats nest at SCR the track really isnt that bad. As for the wall ... yes it is a wall and a solid one at that. But in the years I was with the MRA and the many years I have watched the MRA the wall was the least of the worries on that track. The bridge has taken more people I think or even the dragon slide. Do I run as fast as Glenn, Ricky, or the any of the other experts... ummmmmmmmm NO! But if they are the experts they claim to be they race like Glenn said the track not each other. How fast one can safely go to win given the risks involved. If it started raining or your tires start to go you make changes and compensate for what you know will make you go down. The track and been worked on, ie patches, paint, items moved, etc. Is it the best track? No. Is it the worst track? No. We probably ran CDR for test and tunes at least 10 times last year and the only time we had someone go down was do to the fact they went off the track after trying to miss a rider who sat up in the dragon slide and grabbed a handful of brakes thinking he had over shot it. We play there, granted that isnt racing but we do have current MRA racers in our club who practice they as well and though they may or may not like it I have never heard a word about NOT WANTING TO or WOULD NOT RACE on that track if they had to.

IMO my 2 cents.