CDR Rumor mill

[The GECCO]

I don't know why I bother, but I can't let this one go...

I announced LONG ago that 05 would almost certainly have a CDR date <snip>

Ummmm No you didn't: **quote from Jan '05 minutes**

From the General Meeting minutes on the MRA site:

August '04

Are now revisiting the idea of racing at Continental Divide Raceway. The new manager there is making an effort to improve the facilities, but the surface hasn’t been repaved. Glenn will be going to a track day there in a week to see what the current conditions are. The CMC plans (in the event that SCR is not extended) to bargain as a group to offer CDR a specified number of guaranteed track days in exchange for certain improvements.

September '04

CDR—still considering going back there on a regular basis. Are waiting until we are 100% certain that SCR is not going to be extended for next year. Will then go to CDR collectively to bargain (30-40 dates/year in exchange for improvements). Some discussion of the out of state track options and the problems involved with those

October '04

2005 season schedule—CDR has not yet prepared a contract for next year. Will be uncertainty until November 7th as to whether SCR will or will not continue to exist. PPIR has not yet set rates for 2005, which will determine if we can run an additional race there. The only thing that is certain is that we will be at PPIR the weekend before the AMA is. He’s hoping to have 3 Pueblo races, 3 CDR races, 2 La Junta races, and 2 PPIR races. Glenn is also still considering scheduling a race on a 3-day weekend, where the Sunday schedule is run on both Sunday and Monday for double points.

November '04

· Schedule—is dependant upon whether or not SCR will be there next year. Glenn is trying to spread things out a little bit. If no SCR, will be 4 Pueblos, 2 PPIRs, 2 CDRs, and 2 La Juntas. If SCR continues for next season, will try to have 3 Pueblos, 2 SCR, 2 PPIR, 2 La Junta, and 1 CDR. Right now, we do not conflict with MotoGP, the Pike’s Peak hill climb, or Copperfest. Copperfest should be on its usual date (8/20 & 8/21), unless they change like last year. Pueblo will be a double header over Labor Day in September, but no other races are planned for holiday weekends. The double header will consist of a normal Saturday, and then we will run the Sunday schedule twice—once on Sunday and once on Monday. The second PPIR date will be 10/1 and 10/2 for certain.
CDR—they have put out for bids to repave the problem areas of the track. The grandstands will be torn down and paved in for more parking. The upper and lower paved areas will be used for pit area. Still looking for answers on spectator parking.

Shall I move on to my next bitch or just be quiet like everyone else. Including the board....

If this is the way you are planning to present the rest of your arguments you may as well stay quiet, I don't have time for this crap

[Devil954]

Arghh! sounds like its set in stone ,If we are going to be there anyway might as well leave this alone its getting ugly. Cant we all just get along

[Lurch]

Glenn,

I'm not arguing the fact that we are racing there. I get that and know that. Besides your quotes/statements at the meetings do not answer my questions.

I asked 3 questions and you simple with not answer them.

1. Will we race there if the improvements are not made?

2. Will we have 2 schools there if the improvements are not made?

3. Why after previous boards deemed the track unsafe are we racing there if the improvements are not made?

That is all I want to know. I get that we are racing there. One more thing if you don't have time for the members that elected you then what do you have time for?

Lurch

[The GECCO]

1. Will we race there if the improvements are not made?

2. Will we have 2 schools there if the improvements are not made?

3. Why after previous boards deemed the track unsafe are we racing there if the improvements are not made?

1. I don't know yet, but it isn't a decision that HAS to be made in February, is it? Just like what happened with SCR a few years ago we may not make that decision until the day of the race, regardless of whether or not the improvements have been made.

2. Given the weather between now and then and the backlog faced by paving crews from last years wet summer it's very doubtful the paving will be done by April, so yes.

3. I will point out that this question assumes the answer to #1 is an unqualified "yes"; quite an assumption on your part. The question would be more appropriate without the last 6 words. Either way, the answer is: Because things change - we aren't in the same situation we were then and the track is not being run by the same people it was then. The current owners show the desire to bring the track back to where it needs to be if the clubs show some good faith that we will race there. Will it actually happen? I dunno, my crystal ball is broken, but I do know that to simply turn our backs without even giving them a chance would be foolish... especially if, by some unfortunate set of events, the "new track" never becomes a reality.

That is all I want to know. I get that we are racing there. One more thing if you don't have time for the members that elected you then what do you have time for?

I have plenty of time for members who bring up concerns or questions in a proper, polite and constructive manner. For you to publicly bash my decisions, make false statements about what I have and have not said, and just be sarcastic ass in general is what I don't have time for.

[Lel]

just as my 2 cents in that we (CFRSR) just hosted a free club track day there and had 170+ people sign the release form. I cant tell you how many total people we had on the track for the given day but I can tell you that we ran from morning til we got rained out and had 25-35 people on the track at any given time divided into groups of those who had never been on the track / some track riding and those with experiance /raced. Durning the day we only had 2 people go down. 1 was a new rider who hit some oil from a blown motor and 1 was a younger guy we highsided or low sided out of turn 4. We were running speed and then sum with the experianced bikes and as stated before if you knew what to look for ( a few patchy pavements spots no worse then anything I have seen in the rats nest at SCR the track really isnt that bad. As for the wall ... yes it is a wall and a solid one at that. But in the years I was with the MRA and the many years I have watched the MRA the wall was the least of the worries on that track. The bridge has taken more people I think or even the dragon slide. Do I run as fast as Glenn, Ricky, or the any of the other experts... ummmmmmmmm NO! But if they are the experts they claim to be they race like Glenn said the track not each other. How fast one can safely go to win given the risks involved. If it started raining or your tires start to go you make changes and compensate for what you know will make you go down. The track and been worked on, ie patches, paint, items moved, etc. Is it the best track? No. Is it the worst track? No. We probably ran CDR for test and tunes at least 10 times last year and the only time we had someone go down was do to the fact they went off the track after trying to miss a rider who sat up in the dragon slide and grabbed a handful of brakes thinking he had over shot it. We play there, granted that isnt racing but we do have current MRA racers in our club who practice they as well and though they may or may not like it I have never heard a word about NOT WANTING TO or WOULD NOT RACE on that track if they had to.

IMO my 2 cents.

I have to disagree with you, this is the day that I was there. People were running at about 70% speed (if that) in the fast/expert session. We were not pushing hard. At most their were 15 people on the track, MAYBE 20. And we were all split up, we were not in a grid, and were not going 3 wide etc into a turn. That day does not compare to a race day. The most I saw on the track were maybe 25ish people, and they were in the first timer session so not moving fast to be a danger to eachother.

[Lurch]

Glenn,

Thank you for answering my questions that is all I have wanted in the first place.

As far as making false statements about what you said I don't see anywhere in here where I did that. But I could be wrong I have been before.

As far as publicly bashing your decisions well the last time someone didn't question our president we came up a tad short on the books. I just feel that decisions are being made by this board with out the knowledge that it takes to make those decisions.

I will now crawl back under my sarcastic rock and be quiet like the rest of the Borg.

Lurch

[nileator01]

I won't be racing at CDR this season, but I don't care that it's on the schedule. The track sucks, it's unsafe, and I had my worst crash ever there and am lucky not to have been killed. But a lot of other people like it, and I'm not going to say they can't race there because I don't like it.

If you don't like the track, it's conditions, or whatever, just don't sign up for that weekend. Take a weekend off. Volunteer that weekend to corner work, or anything else that the club needs.

Those that will be racing just shouldn't crash. Simple, right? (that was sarcasm by the way) Seriously, don't run off the track at the turn before the dragon slide. You will losse a lot more than points!


Lurch, it has been less than five years since MRA last raced there. We raced there in 2001. Just a clarification, I believe you stated previously that we haven't been there for five years.

[Deuce]

Here's my only concern. I'm not trying to criticize ANYONE.

As a newer racer, whom doesn't have the experience to really judge the safety of one venue vs. another... I have to rely upon the discretion and experience of the board members to ensure that I am not exposing myself to unneccessary risk.

Sure, I can go out there and ride a bit more conservatively... but what if the guy or gal behind me is riding balls to the wall and takes both of us out in one of these questionable spots?

Hey Rock I cant answer all those questions but I can tell you this. If somebody's riding like an ass gasket on ANY track we go to and plows into you because their riding over their head all your gonna get from Glenn is "thats racing" even if it's in practice. Trust me, been there and done that. Remember my exaust that got bent in almost a 90 degree angle at Pueblo last time we were there? Yeah nuff said.

I'll save you from somebody else telling you that if your nervous about safety conditions then don't race or don't show up. Since thats the attitude that will be presented.


Deuce

[Cyalaytr]

just as my 2 cents in that we (CFRSR) just hosted a free club track day there and had 170+ people sign the release form. I cant tell you how many total people we had on the track for the given day but I can tell you that we ran from morning til we got rained out and had 25-35 people on the track at any given time divided into groups of those who had never been on the track / some track riding and those with experiance /raced. Durning the day we only had 2 people go down. 1 was a new rider who hit some oil from a blown motor and 1 was a younger guy we highsided or low sided out of turn 4. We were running speed and then sum with the experianced bikes and as stated before if you knew what to look for ( a few patchy pavements spots no worse then anything I have seen in the rats nest at SCR the track really isnt that bad. As for the wall ... yes it is a wall and a solid one at that. But in the years I was with the MRA and the many years I have watched the MRA the wall was the least of the worries on that track. The bridge has taken more people I think or even the dragon slide. Do I run as fast as Glenn, Ricky, or the any of the other experts... ummmmmmmmm NO! But if they are the experts they claim to be they race like Glenn said the track not each other. How fast one can safely go to win given the risks involved. If it started raining or your tires start to go you make changes and compensate for what you know will make you go down. The track and been worked on, ie patches, paint, items moved, etc. Is it the best track? No. Is it the worst track? No. We probably ran CDR for test and tunes at least 10 times last year and the only time we had someone go down was do to the fact they went off the track after trying to miss a rider who sat up in the dragon slide and grabbed a handful of brakes thinking he had over shot it. We play there, granted that isnt racing but we do have current MRA racers in our club who practice they as well and though they may or may not like it I have never heard a word about NOT WANTING TO or WOULD NOT RACE on that track if they had to.

IMO my 2 cents.

I have to disagree with you, this is the day that I was there. People were running at about 70% speed (if that) in the fast/expert session. We were not pushing hard. At most their were 15 people on the track, MAYBE 20. And we were all split up, we were not in a grid, and were not going 3 wide etc into a turn. That day does not compare to a race day. The most I saw on the track were maybe 25ish people, and they were in the first timer session so not moving fast to be a danger to eachother.

Like I said.. just my opinion and everyone views things differently. I saw many people running at speed and I saw many people on the track at once. Did they start from a grid? No but they were sent out on the track at the same time and in which many were faster then other riders and made it more dangerous or a bigger risk because people were being lapped. But as I stated I personally have no issues of the track that would keep me from going there and nor would I have any reservations about recommending it to anyone to run on or race on knowing that the racer though they do travel faster have a better knowledge of what to look for. But like I said.. just my opinion.

[hcr25]

Actually we raced there in 2002,well i didnt i had nasty concussion that i got at 2nd creek 3 weeks before.
mike

[Anonymous]

Hey Rock I cant answer all those questions but I can tell you this. If somebody's riding like an ass gasket on ANY track we go to and plows into you because their riding over their head all your gonna get from Glenn is "thats racing" even if it's in practice. Trust me, been there and done that. Remember my exaust that got bent in almost a 90 degree angle at Pueblo last time we were there? Yeah nuff said.

I'll save you from somebody else telling you that if your nervous about safety conditions then don't race or don't show up. Since thats the attitude that will be presented.

Let's keep it on topic here Deuce. You're talking about RACERS causing an unsafe condition. This thread is about a TRACK causing unsafe conditions. These are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. And yes, if someone decides they're better than physics and fucks up, they may take someone out. I see this several times a season. Unfortunately, unless they're chronically riding stupid, there isn't anything we can do about it - a moments lapse of judgement is all it takes sometimes, and by then the damage is done. So yes - it IS racing. It is an inherent risk in what we do here, that someone will act retarded and cornhole you. I seem to remember a primered R6 a couple seasons ago that just didn't brake into the 88's and took a guy out, but stayed in himself.

I believe the Board is addressing the TRACK safety concerns presented. We've given CDR a list of things that need to be taken care of. We're not out of options if this doesn't happen, however the new management there seems commited to our business and we need to give them some time to work on this. You all are bitching about the track, but let's not forget this is still FEBRUARY. There is quite a bit of time left for them to work on it. We've shown the interest and agreed to go there, they've agreed to make something happen with our issues. It's their play, now we wait and see.

As for RACERS causing safety problems, it isn't Glenn's call to make. It's mine. If you think someone is repeatedly being a dipshit out there and for some reason I don't already know about it, you are always welcome to come find me and bring it to my attention. I will watch said person and take action if I feel it's necessary. However, I don't know what you're expecting from anyone if a single event causes a wreck. It isn't like I can black flag them once they're on the ground. It's harsh, it's callous, but it is racing. I'm sorry if you were looking for a more sympathetic response but I believe this is the fairest and most objective approach to take. I can't charge them for your parts, and if the situation were reversed you'd be crying foul if I came after you for a single event that got out of control. IMO, if anything is to be done (such as an apology or whatever) that is between the people affected, and not any board member or race official's place unless a clear rule violation took place.

[Devil954]

Funny Ralph I remember that R6 too because I was the guy He hit . that was an episode of Ernest goes racing." Know what I mean (VERN) " :P

[Lel]

I believe the Board is addressing the TRACK safety concerns presented. We've given CDR a list of things that need to be taken care of. We're not out of options if this doesn't happen, however the new management there seems commited to our business and we need to give them some time to work on this. You all are bitching about the track, but let's not forget this is still FEBRUARY. There is quite a bit of time left for them to work on it. We've shown the interest and agreed to go there, they've agreed to make something happen with our issues. It's their play, now we wait and see.

Ralph thats right on topic... thats all I want to know and and as you said, and I said early, it is still only FEBRUARY.

I would like to know what was asked to be changed, thats all im wondering.

lel

[Buddau]

CDR, it's a challenge, I'm racin it!
That is what I signed up to do!
I agree, CDR is more of a challenge safety wise. I am just not going to push as hard at CDR.

[Jim Brewer]

This certainly is stimulating discourse on CDR. I just can't help but weigh in on a discussion being held with such high propriety.

My interest was caught by the reference to Steamboat as support for attendence estimation at MAM.

First, I've been to MAM and I've been to Steamboat. MAM is no Steamboat. Suggesting that people would travel to race at MAM because they would travel to race at Steamboat is laughable.

Second, I found it interesting that one would bring up Steamboat during a discussion about CDR safety. I raced at the 'boat every year from '91 through the last '98 race. It was obviously unsafe -- certainly much less safe than CDR. Even so, to the best of my knowledge NOBODY ever suggested that we cancel the event there and go to Second Creek, even when it was snowing.

Hmmm... why?

Could safety really be the issue? Or is there another agenda afoot with those being most vocal about cancelling CDR? Could those opposed to CDR be doing so because of an old axe that needs grinding? Or could there be a political motiviation (of the nature that "the board" it often accused)?

So I would ask those against racing @ CDR for safety reasons, if we were to get Steamboat back, would you race there?

[Deuce]

Hey Rock I cant answer all those questions but I can tell you this. If somebody's riding like an ass gasket on ANY track we go to and plows into you because their riding over their head all your gonna get from Glenn is "thats racing" even if it's in practice. Trust me, been there and done that. Remember my exaust that got bent in almost a 90 degree angle at Pueblo last time we were there? Yeah nuff said.

I'll save you from somebody else telling you that if your nervous about safety conditions then don't race or don't show up. Since thats the attitude that will be presented.

Let's keep it on topic here Deuce. You're talking about RACERS causing an unsafe condition. This thread is about a TRACK causing unsafe conditions. These are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. And yes, if someone decides they're better than physics and fucks up, they may take someone out. I see this several times a season. Unfortunately, unless they're chronically riding stupid, there isn't anything we can do about it - a moments lapse of judgement is all it takes sometimes, and by then the damage is done. So yes - it IS racing. It is an inherent risk in what we do here, that someone will act retarded and cornhole you. I seem to remember a primered R6 a couple seasons ago that just didn't brake into the 88's and took a guy out, but stayed in himself.

I believe the Board is addressing the TRACK safety concerns presented. We've given CDR a list of things that need to be taken care of. We're not out of options if this doesn't happen, however the new management there seems commited to our business and we need to give them some time to work on this. You all are bitching about the track, but let's not forget this is still FEBRUARY. There is quite a bit of time left for them to work on it. We've shown the interest and agreed to go there, they've agreed to make something happen with our issues. It's their play, now we wait and see.

As for RACERS causing safety problems, it isn't Glenn's call to make. It's mine. If you think someone is repeatedly being a dipshit out there and for some reason I don't already know about it, you are always welcome to come find me and bring it to my attention. I will watch said person and take action if I feel it's necessary. However, I don't know what you're expecting from anyone if a single event causes a wreck. It isn't like I can black flag them once they're on the ground. It's harsh, it's callous, but it is racing. I'm sorry if you were looking for a more sympathetic response but I believe this is the fairest and most objective approach to take. I can't charge them for your parts, and if the situation were reversed you'd be crying foul if I came after you for a single event that got out of control. IMO, if anything is to be done (such as an apology or whatever) that is between the people affected, and not any board member or race official's place unless a clear rule violation took place.

Hey I was just answering that one question. I never said Glenn was a dick for his response to me or that there was something else that could be done about the situation. You get plowed into and your shit outta luck. "Thats racin". As far as the dude that ran into me he apologized more than once and offered whatever help he could. That was good enough for me. Don't get me wrong I was still pissed about the situation more because it happened in practice and not a race but what was I gonna do? Shit happens. I made the comment to Glenn only because the guy was a buddy of his and relatively new to racing. So I thought he might want to share a little advice that no trophy's are handed out in practice and save the guy from binning it when it didn't count. Not to try and get the dude in trouble.


Deuce

[Lurch]

Jim it's OK you can say Lurch/Doug instead of "one" you won't hurt my feelings.

Lurch/Doug/"one"

[Devil954]

This is what I am getting here "one" sarcastic ass(that would be Lurch which isnt to far off base :P ) said she said what he said was true but it wasnt or was it but then Deuce (who had a wreck coming anyway ) crashed and he said that she said it wasnt because of that thing that guy did C'mon everybody lighten up were gonna be racing in a few months

[*MV* #33]

So I would ask those against racing @ CDR for safety reasons, if we were to get Steamboat back, would you race there?

I'm against it for safety reasons... Would I race steamboat? Dunno never been there but if its unsafe prolly not.

[Deuce]

Steamboat would be pretty fun though. Even if we all had to turn it back a few notches. I don't know the track layout or the safety issues but I think it'd be badass if we went back there.


p.s. Eat my ass Ed. I wrecked later that day ya tool.



Deuce

[Devil954]

Just thought I would try to spin a little humor into this thread , Maybe if all you guys didnt have to work on them broke ass suzuki's all the time you wouldnt be so grumpy

[hcr25]

As far as CDR's safety goes, our other tracks are not all that much safer! There are walls all around PPIR and if you think they cant be hit ask Elton Curry. 2nd creek has some run off right up to the point that you hit some type off a wall.Pueblo has good run off in places but it is so bumby and has very large rocks and other debri all over.More then 1 racer has got hurt just hitting something on the ground in the run off area.La junta is almost our safest track,other then the barbwire fence in turn 1,2 and the barrel wall exiting the last turn.
Steamboat was a very fun place to race aswell as the most dangerous.No runoff anywhere.Curbs,fire hydrants,street signs where just some of the small dangers.
I can respect all of your opinons about CDR.I just thought you should think about the other tracks also.
mike

[Anonymous]

Mike makes good points. I almost put Zach into the wall at PPIR. I've seen guys run into the concrete at SCR and somersault over it almost into other parts of the track, or tag the tirewall in the house turn (several times) - and tires are not soft! Pueblo had a nice boulder field in it last season, if you miss the runoff on turn 1 there you can kiss your bike goodbye.

Each track has issues, problems, and bottom line - short of lining the entire thing with airbags and repaving it at the start of every season, there will not be a perfectly safe track out here. I think most of us however have learned where the problem areas on the other tracks are, and know to avoid them.

Not to minimize anything with CDR, but it isn't like we race on world class facilities out here from a safety perspective.

[Lel]

I agree with what mike and ralph has said, our tracks are not that much safer than CDR. Howerver I have to say each person has a line not to cross, and that point it sounds like is turn 9 at CDR. A concrete wall that is IN the line, I have been told at race speeds you might be rubbing against it w/ your knee on the exit (this isnt NASCAR). That and the surface isnt that hot (nor is scr or pueblo, but again that point at which your just saying come on)

Like I said, racing is racing and I am all for being there, I am still just posing the question: WHAT WAS REQUESTED TO BE FIXED BY THE CMC/MRA? Glenn can you let us know?

lel