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Thread: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

  1. #73
    Member Jim_Vess's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by TFOGGuys View Post
    It won't do any good afterwards either, as the ignition timing is not adjustable.
    Yeah, I 've always thought it was weird that the book shows how to check the timing, but you can't adjust it. I guess it is so you can tell if your ignitor is bad.
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  2. #74
    Member Jim_Vess's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ600s View Post
    Jim_Vess: When could I pick up the compression gauge from you? I will be in Boulder tomorrow at 7am (currently in Lyons) and will probably head back to Lyons around 5pm at the latest (unless I could meet you soon after that, I just would need to get back to Lyons before dark). PM me if you'd like
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  3. #75
    Senior Member TFOGGuys's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Vess View Post
    Yeah, I 've always thought it was weird that the book shows how to check the timing, but you can't adjust it. I guess it is so you can tell if your ignitor is bad.
    I just hang on to a sparkplug with one hand and the frame with the other

    Thanks, Jim
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  4. #76
    Right-Wing Nut-Job DavidofColorado's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by TFOGGuys View Post
    I just hang on to a sparkplug with one hand and the frame with the other

    You can't just stop there if your going to give the road warrior way to check the spark you might as well tell them what they should expect...



    Ok I'll tell. If you get a shock so bad that it feel like it stopped your heart. That one is good keep going until you find the little shock. If you get a little shock that doesn't hurt at all that coil or ignitor could be bad.

    You checked all 4 wires for spark didn't you?

    If you are having a hard time cranking it the valve could be hitting your piston. In that case I would make sure before cranking it anymore. As it will damage stuff.

    Was it hard to take the head off? Do you feel that you could do it again if you need to? But a compression test will tell you if there is something wrong before you need to take the head off.

  5. #77
    Member Jim_Vess's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by TFOGGuys View Post
    I just hang on to a sparkplug with one hand and the frame with the other

    I've learned the hard way that nothing good ever comes from ideas that start with, "I saw this in a cartoon once..."
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  6. #78
    Member XJ600s's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Problem found: bent valves.

    When I used a compression gauge, all plugs out of the cylinder head, full throttle, and tried to start it, I got absolute readings. What were they you ask?

    Cylinder 1: 0 psi
    Cylinder 2: 0 psi
    Cylinder 3: 0 psi
    Cylinder 4: 0 psi

    Guess that solves why the bike wouldn't start. Time to figure out when I want to pull the cylinder head again and get the valves replaced. I'll most likely take my business to Jim at TFOG because he helped a ton in determining it most likely was the valves (which seems like all 4 are bent).

    Another big thanks to Jim_Voss for loaning me his compression gauge just now. I will probably be bringing that back by your place this afternoon sometime close to 5pm.

  7. #79
    Right-Wing Nut-Job DavidofColorado's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ600s View Post
    Problem found: bent valves.

    When I used a compression gauge, all plugs out of the cylinder head, full throttle, and tried to start it, I got absolute readings. What were they you ask?

    Cylinder 1: 0 psi
    Cylinder 2: 0 psi
    Cylinder 3: 0 psi
    Cylinder 4: 0 psi

    Guess that solves why the bike wouldn't start. Time to figure out when I want to pull the cylinder head again and get the valves replaced. I'll most likely take my business to Jim at TFOG because he helped a ton in determining it most likely was the valves (which seems like all 4 are bent).

    Another big thanks to Jim_Voss for loaning me his compression gauge just now. I will probably be bringing that back by your place this afternoon sometime close to 5pm.
    That sounds like why it wouldn't start too. But the bright side is they all with in 10 psi of each other!
    Was the compression gauge the screw in kind? Are you 100% sure that you tested it right? If so time to take the head off and take it to Jim.

  8. #80
    Member XJ600s's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    I followed the directions precisely, remove all spark plugs, with the carburetor throttle fully open (full throttle), push the gauge onto the spark plug hole (it was the rubber kind) and try to start it.

    After I did that, I went to put a finger over the hole, and was able to keep it there with no problems, there was no pressure even trying to force my finger off in the slightest.

    I tried pressing the compression gauge harder against the plug hole, but still didn't get a reading. There is definitely no pressure whatsoever.

  9. #81
    Right-Wing Nut-Job DavidofColorado's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Yep it sounds like you have found the problem. Got a little more work to do... but the bright side is you are closer to getting your whip running.

  10. #82
    Member XJ600s's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    A HUGE THANKS goes to Jim and TFOG for getting creating a working cylinder head out of two non-working ones, they will be getting ALL of my business from now on!

    Another HUGE THANKS goes to ChrisCBX for trailering my bike out to his garage Tuesday and letting me work on it there! And also for giving me a ride out to his place tomorrow so I can ride the bike back to Boulder!

    Another HUGE THANKS to Jim_Vess for letting me borrow his compression gauge! That definitely narrowed down the problem once bent valves were suspected.

    And lastly, thanks to everyone on this board for dealing with my idiocracy and helping me diagnose the problem! I have learned a ton about not only my bike/engine, but in general a lot of very useful information about how to diagnose more serious problems and how the inside of engines fully work in harmony.

    I picked up the cylinder heads from TFOG today, turns out when I bent the 5 valves, it must have been just right to crack all of the valve guides as well, rendering that new (to me) cylinder head useless. But, they were able to remove the cross-threaded spark plug by using a torch and heating the crap out of it, then helicoiling it and fitting a new spark plug perfectly.

    After I left TFOG I went to ChrisCBX's house to start the reinstall of everything and attempt to get it running. Spent about 3.5 hours putting everything together, then cranking the engine over by hand to have it spin smoothly multiple times and still have the cam holes line up after more than 2 full rotations. So I installed the carbs, air intake and tank and hooked up all hoses and crossed all fingers, toes and said a quick prayer. Went to start it up only to realize the gas may have been below the reserve tube. Filled it up, then tried again. Nothing. Chris threw a battery charger on the battery to help give it more sparking power, kept trying and finally he broke out the starting fluid. A few quick sprays and it fired up, sputtered and died. After a little more starting fluid it was able to stay idling by itself, where I let it idle for 15 minutes or so while looking for leaks or anything like that. I couldn't believe it had started right up! It's only been 3 weeks since the bike was broken and unrideable, yet it feels like its been months since I last got to ride! I'll be riding it home from Chris's house tomorrow and couldn't be more excited to finally ride again!!!

    Again, thanks to everyone who helped me out in diagnosing the problem and thanks a ton to those people who physically helped me look at it, fix it, and get it running again! I owe you all BIG time!

  11. #83
    Gold Member asp_125's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Glad to hear this ended well.
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  12. #84
    Right-Wing Nut-Job DavidofColorado's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Glad to hear its working out for you. I guess you could have done worse. Listen for a hissing sound and it missing. If you don't hear anything you maybe out of the woods.

  13. #85
    Member Jim_Vess's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Glad to see you back on two wheels, Garrett.
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  14. #86
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidofColorado View Post
    Glad to hear its working out for you. I guess you could have done worse. Listen for a hissing sound and it missing. If you don't hear anything you maybe out of the woods.
    Hissing and missing? What would be causing those and why do I need to pay attention for them? (As in are they common aftershocks after engine work of this caliber?)

  15. #87
    Senior Member sugarrey's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    I agree, its great to have guys and gals on this forum that take the time to give a shit. +1 to all ya'll who lend a helping hand.

  16. #88
    Right-Wing Nut-Job DavidofColorado's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ600s View Post
    Hissing and missing? What would be causing those and why do I need to pay attention for them? (As in are they common aftershocks after engine work of this caliber?)
    Hissing could be coming from the spark plug that you had a helocoil put in and I could be wrong but if you hear hissing then there is air blowing by the coil. You can spray soapy water on the plug and look for bubbles. It just means that it may need tightening or its leaking altogether. If you don't see any bubbling be happy cause its working and Jim did a good job.
    The missing could be from one or more cylinders aren't working and you need to find out why. A way you can check is get an IR thermometer and point in at the exhaust for each cylinder when its first started and make sure they all get hot 220+ degrees in a few seconds. A wet towel will work too. If it doesn't get hot the tube will stay wet. But if they work then like I said you are out of the woods and you can enjoy ride again with out worry.

    Can you post a picture of the ruined head? Did you check for a damaged piston while the head was off? I don't think its a big deal unless you cracked the piston or made a big hole if there is and burrs hanging in there it could become a hot spot and might detonate gas.

    I'm glad that you are back on 2 again. And don't let me freak you out either. I'm just trying to have peace-of-mind here that each cylinder is 100% again.
    Last edited by DavidofColorado; Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 at 01:22 AM.

  17. #89
    Right-Wing Nut-Job DavidofColorado's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by sugarrey View Post
    I agree, its great to have guys and gals on this forum that take the time to give a shit. +1 to all ya'll who lend a helping hand.
    The spring is still holding strong jeff? I guess it is since you didn't curse my name here.

    Did you get that exhaust choke thingy working again?

  18. #90
    Member XJ600s's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Thanks David, I still need to pop my camshaft tensionser out a tooth to make the camshaft rattle go away, but once I do that I will be sure to listen for any noise near the helicoil, but Jim did an EXCELLENT job on it, and I highly doubt anything will happen from it (but its nice to know something to look for).

    I will be riding the bike home today, but it didn't seem like a cylinder was missing yesterday, although after I get home I will be sure to check all 4 exhaust headers and see if any of them are cooler (though it'll be with the highly effective and super precise back-of-the-hand method).

    I should be able to post pictures of the head, but not today as today is again another busy day for me. I didn't check for a damaged piston, but not even sure what to look for.

    It will be very nice to be back on 2 wheels again! After getting the fairing on later tonight, I'll probably take it out for a spin around town and make sure everything is nice and tight on it!

  19. #91
    Right-Wing Nut-Job DavidofColorado's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ600s View Post
    Thanks David, I still need to pop my camshaft tensionser out a tooth to make the camshaft rattle go away, but once I do that I will be sure to listen for any noise near the helicoil, but Jim did an EXCELLENT job on it, and I highly doubt anything will happen from it (but its nice to know something to look for).
    Well the bubbles method will tell you if its tightened enough.

    I will be riding the bike home today, but it didn't seem like a cylinder was missing yesterday, although after I get home I will be sure to check all 4 exhaust headers and see if any of them are cooler (though it'll be with the highly effective and super precise back-of-the-hand method).
    Do it when its cold and you first start it. And don't touch it directly. Those pipes are going to be hot.

    I should be able to post pictures of the head, but not today as today is again another busy day for me. I didn't check for a damaged piston, but not even sure what to look for.
    No hurry on the picture its just for my own personal collection I guess. But those valves got bent off of something and I was thinking it gouged the piston any. But if you didn't notice when the head was off then it might not be a big deal.
    It will be very nice to be back on 2 wheels again! After getting the fairing on later tonight, I'll probably take it out for a spin around town and make sure everything is nice and tight on it!
    As long as its running like you want it. Every other problem will melt away.

  20. #92
    Member XJ600s's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Well, I rode it home from Longmont today and it performed amazingly well at all RPM's! Smooth on the throttle, quick start-up, perfect idle, absolutely amazing to think that just a few days ago it was in many pieces! I got the fairing back on once I got home, and am planning on taking it out for a spin tomorrow afternoon just to make sure everything is tightened up, though I'm almost positive I got all the bolts back in their proper places.

  21. #93
    Senior Member TFOGGuys's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ600s View Post
    Well, I rode it home from Longmont today and it performed amazingly well at all RPM's! Smooth on the throttle, quick start-up, perfect idle, absolutely amazing to think that just a few days ago it was in many pieces! I got the fairing back on once I got home, and am planning on taking it out for a spin tomorrow afternoon just to make sure everything is tightened up, though I'm almost positive I got all the bolts back in their proper places.

    Glad you're back on 2.
    Thanks, Jim
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  22. #94
    Senior Member ChrisCBX's Avatar
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    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Quote Originally Posted by TFOGGuys View Post
    Glad you're back on 2.
    +1

  23. #95

    Re: Serious Problem - Sheared off and Cross Threaded Spark Plug

    Congrats on getting it back together. I've been following this thread hoping it would all work out in the end.

    It stinks going through this kind of thing. But, in the end you learn a lot about your bike which is a good thing.

    Have fun riding it!

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