Heeeelp! Clutch problem, race day minus 6 days and counting.

[surfinspacegirl]

Need your collective brain power and motorcycle zen wisdom, peeps Good thing this came up now and not while blasting through the back esses at SCR but I need some help with diagnosis/cure.....

I changed out my rearsets this morning, and this afternoon decided to take the bike around the block to make sure all was working well and my pedal heights were OK. Noticed she was kinda hard to shift 1-N-2-N-1 with the engine off & the clutch pulled in.

- Back the bike out of the garage in N, start her up, put her in 1st, and she's pulling hard while I still have the clutch lever pulled all the way in. As I release the clutch lever, there's no "bite" point, the gear is engaged throughout the lever travel. Huh what's going on here?
- Can't get her back into N while the engine's running, so I kill the engine. She goes into N with no problems. Roll her back into the garage.
- Check the adjustment on the shift pedal & gear shifter linkage. All is as it should be. Repeat above, no change.
- Check clutch lever adjustment at the lever and the adjusting nut, all looks good. Repeat the in gear/clutch in test, no change.
- Loosen & re-set clutch at both ends, no change. Try tightening the adjusting nut more than usual, get intermittent disengagement of gear, but not consistent. Re-set back to normal, back to square one.
- Up on the stand (rear wheel off the ground), while in any gear with clutch lever pulled in all the way, the rear wheel spins. No bite point, the gear is engaged no matter what the position of the lever. Put it in N, it stops. The gears are not disengaging when the clutch is applied. Can't shift from 1 to N while the wheel is on the ground & the engine running.

Thinking back over the last few weeks, I have had a lot of mis-shifts and false N, which I never used to get, and have had a lot of trouble finding N when at a standstill with the engine running....sometimes I've not been able to shift out of 1st into N at all under those conditions.

Is this likely to be the springs? Or the actual clutch plate? Any further diagnostics I can run prior to taking the clutch cover off? Fixes?

Thanks in advance...

[BladeRider]

Hanna, It sure sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging all the way. If you're unable to compensate for it at the lever, you'll need to pull the cover and take a peek at the clutch plates. How many miles do you have on it?

[Anonymous]

The reply you got on the MRA list should be a good starting point, like they said if the clutch was going you would not get power to the wheel. You can't shift to neutral because the gears are not unloading properly - the same reason you need to roll off the throttle to do clutchless shifts. Definitely sounds like it's related to the cable or it's mechanism. I'm not familiar with the SV (mine is hydraulic - I'm not sure which is worse to be honest) but there are only so many things that could be wrong.

[surfinspacegirl]

Hanna, It sure sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging all the way. If you're unable to compensate for it at the lever, you'll need to pull the cover and take a peek at the clutch plates. How many miles do you have on it?

15K, but I've been doing a lot of track time and some clutched wheelies

[surfinspacegirl]

if the clutch was going you would not get power to the wheel.

If the clutch was going, there's ALWAYS be power going to the rear wheel, surely, because the clutch wouldn't engage

You can't shift to neutral because the gears are not unloading properly - the same reason you need to roll off the throttle to do clutchless shifts. Definitely sounds like it's related to the cable or it's mechanism

I'll keep trying. Scott B. said he's had the same exact thing happen more than once & it's the clutch plates. ho hum...

[BladeRider]

A clutch doesn't always go in terms of slipping. The disks can wear down and as you adjust the pressure plate closer to compensate, you can get to a point where there's so little movement in the pressure plate that the friction plates don't fully disengage.

I hope it is just a new clutch (time for that barnett!). If not, the only other things I can think of checking are the shift lever, forks or drum for damage or damage within the mainshaft (which you definitely don't want $$). I suspect it's just the clutch though unless you've been slamming some clutchless upshifts it didn't like.

Good luck!

[Bryce]

frequently a burnt clutch will neither disengage or engage fully so in a nut shell check out the clutch and don't sweat it too much Hanna if need be it could be repaired at the track if the parts and tools were at hand

[surfinspacegirl]

OK, re-checked all the adjustments at both ends of the clutch cable; not the culprit. Plenty of movement at the shaft, so that's not it either.

Took off the clutch cover, checked the clutch plates & springs, all are fine, nothing broken/worn out. Pulling in the clutch lever moved the clutch pressure plate as it should.

Didn't want to get into dismantling any more as I didn't really know what I was doing..... Put everything back as it was. Problem seemed to be solved. Then the bike wouldn't shift into N. Finally got it to shift into N, pretty big clunk and we're back to square one....

Time for the pros to look at it, I think....

[surfinspacegirl]

OK, at Scott's urging, took the bull by the horns and dug deeper.

Kept going until I removed the primary driven gear assembly, EDIT all is good, nothing has fused together. Back to suspect clutch plates; I'll be checking for warp/thickness Monday night....

It's amazing, I've totally dismantled and replaced my clutch assembly twice now and I still have no idea how it actually works

I'm off to do something non-bike related, after 48 hours with my nose in the innards of my bike I've had enough. Where's that cold Stella Artois...

[Hoopty]

Hanna, I had the same problem with my SV a while back. There is a lock and screw adjustment under the sprocket cover, it's very possible that needs to be adjusted. Loosen the nut, tighten the screw, then back it out 1/4 turn. After that, re-tighten nut and test.

[surfinspacegirl]

Hanna, I had the same problem with my SV a while back. There is a lock and screw adjustment under the sprocket cover, it's very possible that needs to be adjusted. Loosen the nut, tighten the screw, then back it out 1/4 turn. After that, re-tighten nut and test.

Thanks, Hoopty, but I'm waaaaay past that point.

[Hoopty]

Hmmm, well you didn't mention that so I thought I'd throw it out there. It seemed to work on mine.

[surfinspacegirl]

Hey Hoopty, don't get me wrong - I do appreciate your help

I did those adjsutments right at the start:

- Check clutch lever adjustment at the lever and the adjusting nut, all looks good. Repeat the in gear/clutch in test, no change.
- Loosen & re-set clutch at both ends, no change. Try tightening the adjusting nut more than usual, get intermittent disengagement of gear, but not consistent. Re-set back to normal, back to square one.

[Anonymous]

Did you try kicking it or just smacking it with a BFH? Sometimes that helps...

[surfinspacegirl]

Did you try kicking it or just smacking it with a BFH? Sometimes that helps...

Oh you mean I have to kick the bike? Damn, that's what I'm doing wrong, I was just kicking all the other stuff in the garage

[Anonymous]

Did you try kicking it or just smacking it with a BFH? Sometimes that helps...

Oh you mean I have to kick the bike? Damn, that's what I'm doing wrong, I was just kicking all the other stuff in the garage

actually I have fixed the strangest problems by just whacking the damn thing with a rubber mallet a couple times. Might not want to do that to your clutch, but hey it's a tried and true super-secret-ninja mechanic trick.

[undertwotimes]

Nice rforsythe... I think I'll be working on my technique here soon... maybe we could start a new Holistic Mechanic school...

[Hoopty]

Check clutch lever adjustment at the lever and the adjusting nut, all looks good. Repeat the in gear/clutch in test, no change.
- Loosen & re-set clutch at both ends, no change. Try tightening the adjusting nut more than usual, get intermittent disengagement of gear, but not consistent. Re-set back to normal, back to square one.

I don't know if we are on the same page here or not. I think you are talking about the clutch CABLE, that goes from the handlebar to the clutch, right? I am NOT talking about either of the 2 adjustments on the cable (bar side or motor side). I am talking about the screw and nut that go into the motor, I beleive it's connected via a "spring thingy" to the motor side of the cable. Are we on the same page?

[surfinspacegirl]

Check clutch lever adjustment at the lever and the adjusting nut, all looks good. Repeat the in gear/clutch in test, no change.
- Loosen & re-set clutch at both ends, no change. Try tightening the adjusting nut more than usual, get intermittent disengagement of gear, but not consistent. Re-set back to normal, back to square one.

I don't know if we are on the same page here or not. I think you are talking about the clutch CABLE, that goes from the handlebar to the clutch, right? I am NOT talking about either of the 2 adjustments on the cable (bar side or motor side). I am talking about the screw and nut that go into the motor, I beleive it's connected via a "spring thingy" to the motor side of the cable. Are we on the same page?

We are talking about the same thing; it's called the worm drive (learnt that today via Glenn on the MRA board ) and it's the screw that is held in place with a locknut, goes into the side of the motor, isn't directly connected to the clutch cable, but via the "spring thingy" to the motor end of the cable, yup.

[Hoopty]

Cool, it's kind of hard to explain and it sounded like you were talking about the cable itself.

[surfinspacegirl]

Cool, it's kind of hard to explain and it sounded like you were talking about the cable itself.

I still think Glenn's winding me up and it's not called the "worm drive" at all

[yakuza]

No, he's right, although I'd be damn funny if he were pulling your leg!

[surfinspacegirl]

Yes it would