Strictly Track?

[willb003]

^ I have been thinking about this during the past week when you started the thread.

I'll probably turn the 929 into a track only and get a Sumo for the street at the beginning of next season.

[AnarchoFuturist]

Is it really safer to ride on the track than on the street? I can see good arguments from both positions. Does anyone have any statistics? I couldn't dig up much on google.

[kawasakirob]

Since I started racing I have probably crashed 35 or so times. Of those crashes I was ambulanced to the hospital twice.

Sums it up right there. I doubt anyone could crash 35 times at race pace on the street and still be living. All it takes is running into a corner to hot one day to realize how much safer the track really is. It would still be fun to rock a TT though. Just accept the risks and haul ass. But isn't that what we do anyway?

[AnarchoFuturist]

Just to play devils advocate, you wouldn't be going at a race pace on the street so its not a completly fair comparison. Sure, crashing at 70 mph on the track would probably be less dangerous for a lot of reasons. However, on the street, you wouldnt be crashing as much and would have less opportunities to get injured. Also, since your average speed on the street is much lower, it's likely you will crash at a lower speed. Thats why I'd like to see some statistics, anecdotal evidence won't do us much good.

[Graphite675]

Just to play devils advocate, you wouldn't be going at a race pace on the street so its not a completly fair comparison.

No offense but This is where the big problem is. Too many kids are going "race pace" on the streets and treat the streets as there own private race track. Maybe you don't ride like that but the other 70% of sportbike street riders do ride way beyond what they should on public roads.

Although you maybe running fast on a track, it is much, much safer and controlled environment to be riding in.

I don't have any statistics but I do follow racing and track days all over the country. I can recall I believe 2 deaths his year that I know of in the states during a track day/race. I'm sure the number of street bikers killed in Colorado alone this year is probably almost 10 times that.
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[AnarchoFuturist]

No offense but This is where the big problem is. Too many kids are going "race pace" on the streets and treat the streets as there own private race track. Maybe you don't ride like that but the other 70% of sportbike street riders do ride way beyond what they should on public roads.

Although you maybe running fast on a track, it is much, much safer and controlled environment to be riding in.

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For riding at race speeds, I completly agree the track is the best place to go, no argument there. I think what I am more interested in is finding out if riding on the street is statisticly less or more dangerous. It's a complex question, and most certainly depends on how you ride and where you choose to go fast.

[675Rider]

Anarcho, I dont have any statistics either, but from personal experience if you crash at all or at any speed on the street you have a very high chance of getting seriuosly injured or killed. Take Andrew Trevitt for example, very accomplished track rider, I think he raced as well. Has wrote books and for sport rider. He was seriously injured on the street doing 30mph. Came around a curve and there was a dumb ass driver doing a u-turn in the middle of a blind corner. Hes paralyzed from the waist down now. Ive seen and heard of so many people getting hurt or killed on the street. If you did find statistics I doubt they would be remotly close to the same. Injuries maybe, deaths no way.You talk to nearly any racer, amatuer or pro, and ask them if they ride on the street. Most will tell you no, its too dangerous.

And in my opinion if youre not going to ride a sport bike fast or try to lean it hard, whats really the point of having one?

[Zach929rr]

You both needed to remember that someone's 60% is another's 110% on the street or track. Granted, there are exceptions to every situation (U turn in middle of road) but it all comes down to having enough change left from your $10 to devote to emergency situations.

[kawasakirob]

Just to play devils advocate, you wouldn't be going at a race pace on the street so its not a completly fair comparison. Sure, crashing at 70 mph on the track would probably be less dangerous for a lot of reasons. However, on the street, you wouldnt be crashing as much and would have less opportunities to get injured. Also, since your average speed on the street is much lower, it's likely you will crash at a lower speed. Thats why I'd like to see some statistics, anecdotal evidence won't do us much good.

That is my point exactly. If you were going race pace on the street, and you wiped out 35 times, I hardly believe that you would still be breathing. Speed has nothing to do with street riding being more dangerous. Have you been on the track before?

[Airreed]

I've never been pushed to go to track days. I find that what draws me to riding isn't all speed. I paticularlly enjoy riding when the Aspen's are changing color, the cooler breezes of spring and fall. The scenery of Colorado is best enjoyed on a motorcycle IMO.

[Desmodromico]

Anarcho, I dont have any statistics either, but from personal experience if you crash at all or at any speed on the street you have a very high chance of getting seriously injured or killed. Take Andrew Trevitt for example, very accomplished track rider, I think he raced as well. Has wrote books and for sport rider. He was seriously injured on the street doing 30mph. Came around a curve and there was a dumb ass driver doing a u-turn in the middle of a blind corner. Hes paralyzed from the waist down now.

This sums up my experience, of the few people I have known well personally who have crashed on the street, two are dead and the others all had very serious injuries. Sport bikes compound the problem by adding speed to the equation but the two deaths were on a sport-tourer and a cruiser, they were both middle-aged experienced riders that were caught in a situation they had no control of, one with a car one with an animal.

I have been down on the track and it isn't fun, but it is a calculated risk I am willing to take and if I had gone down in a similar manner on the street I have a hard time envisioning any roads that would have allowed me the runoff to walk away. Considering you can go to a track day or race and run at your max all day long and most times go home in one piece I feel it is a better situation for me, to each their own. If you can afford a motorcycle as a second vehicle and not primary transportation, you can afford to ride the track IMHO if you are smart about your spending.

Oh and Mike, I will have to hit you up for some crashing tips next time I see you, you look pretty spry for 35 times down the asphalt

[kawasakirob]

I wrote a paper for college on the death toll in CO related to riders fault vs. others. Deleted the paper after summer sem. but think it was around 50-50 for deaths. The majority of deaths were older males 40..... majority on cruisers. Alcohol was a factor in a small percentage. 18-25 age group was like the second highest. Anyway, the info was out there, those numbers are rough estimates. But the paper was fact taken from the transportation guys. Wish I still had it but deleted it.

[AnarchoFuturist]

That is my point exactly. If you were going race pace on the street, and you wiped out 35 times, I hardly believe that you would still be breathing. Speed has nothing to do with street riding being more dangerous. Have you been on the track before?

I haven't been to the track yet, which is why I am asking you guys about it

[AnarchoFuturist]

I'm curious. How many people do you know who are track riders who have died or been seriously injured? I ask because a lot of people I know who have crashed on the street and have came out of it fine, but I realize that this is not always the case(as many have said). I'm just not sure that if I were to switch to the track strickly(which I am open to), if I would really be more safe. Just seems like if I were only on the track and racing I would crash more and have more opportunity to get hurt.

Is the main issue here riding fast on the road vs riding fast on the track?

Or is the main issue riding on the track vs riding on the road(at any speed)?

For the first I think its obvious the track is safer. For the second, I guess I am not so sure.

[Bueller]

I ride motorcycles. I wouldn't give any of it up voluntarily.

Astonishing, is all I can say.

Whether it be a fault of the rider or the surroundings they are riding in, this is amazing to me.

No shit, in my 38 years of riding it is basically a daily occurance.

Very true! But....
I do believe the risk on the track can be less in more ways then on the street. ....................So in my opinion we are safer on the track. More or less fun? All up to the individual.

Mike

But Mike how many crashes on the street are you comparing to?
If you had crashed 35 times on the street I would advise you to stop riding 'cause you would be a really bad rider
I have been hurt much worse in my crashes on the track than the 2 I have had on the street. When I go to the track I have dialed it back, sorta like some canyon riders in here, because I was sick of hitting asphalt so many times.

[kawasakirob]

I haven't been to the track yet, which is why I am asking you guys about it

Right on. Hop on the track. Its awesome. Getting on the track has completely altered my perception of riding on the street. Being on the track lets you focus more on the riding, instead of wondering what that car is going to do, or what that animal is going to do, or what joe bicyclist is going to do, or what the hell is that midcorner? It lets you develop more than anything. Do it, you'll love it. The only negative is it's addicting, and it is not a road for sightseeing. Perfect for skill development in a safe(r) atmosphere. Good Luck

[675Rider]

Is the main issue here riding fast on the road vs riding fast on the track?

Or is the main issue riding on the track vs riding on the road(at any speed)?

For the first I think its obvious the track is safer. For the second, I guess I am not so sure.

I would say youre faster on both occasions simply because 1. You still control your speed. 2. The environment is as controlled as possible and there is typically medical staff on hand to get to you in the "magic" hour.

As long as you are riding at your level and not trying to push your abilities too hard, I say its unlikely you will have a bad crash. Although the only time I have crashed was on a track and I felt pretty comfortable, lol. But if I had crashed at 80mph on the street in a curve I doubt I would be writing this.

[675Rider]

Well this is a thread I started a long time ago, but I have finally decided on going strictly track. I just don't have as much time to ride anymore, and when I do I would rather be on a track anyway. I just do not seem to get much enjoyment from street riding anymore. So I will be selling my street bike soon, should be up for sale by the end of the weekend.

[Mother Goose]

I did the same thing for this year, strictly track. I miss riding on the street sometimes, but when I almost get hit in my car it reminds me why I don't ride on the street anymore.

[rohorn]

This is a subject I've thought about a lot and wondered what others thought.

Sold my street bike (98 ZX9R) last year. It was a very good street bike, but I don't miss street riding on it. I enjoy riding my ass off on my current street bike - the one with pedals.

Lowsided yesterday on my track bike (The one with a motor, sort of) in Turn 5 at HPR yesterday. Got up and had the opportunity to "enjoy" how much different turn 5 looks when standing on the outside in the dirt, and watching the corner worker wave the yellow for something I did. Surreal, humiliating and educational!

As bad as it is cleaning dirt off the bike (It is EVERYWHERE!), it is a lot easier to clean off than guardrail. Or granite. Or in the case of street lefthanders, oncoming traffic. And as much as I hate buying/making new parts, it cost less than what the ticket would have cost. Getting a ride back in the crash cart isn't fun, but it cost less than whatever the local towing company would have charged. And if more than my pride would have been wounded, well, glad to know that the ambulance is half a lap away.

Never got hurt that badly on the street, but I felt like I've had an unusually good run of luck on the street and didn't want to find out how that was going to end anymore. I have lots of fond memories of the rides taken with friends in the mountains (Back in New Mexico), but I have no desire to recreate them. Besides, the motorcycles, tires, and pace of, say, 1986 was a little ... different.

[675Rider]

rohorn I agree. Sometimes you got to wonder when its gonna be your turn. I have not had a spill on the street yet, is it skill? Luck? At least track riding is a calculated risk. There are so many unknowns on the street. Even driving some of the roads I used to frequent riding I have seen some incredibly stupid actions by drivers.

Once on my way to bishops castle on that last tight uphill S-turn before you get there a dumbass in a BMW passed us and stayed in the left lane and middle the whole turn. Imagine a group railing down the hill. Dead! There would have been nowhere to go. 3 choices, guard rail, car or cliff face.

Im not saying no one should ride the street. This is just my choice. The reward does not outweigh the danger and inconvenience for me anymore. I have a much greater time at the track.

[WolFeYeZ]

This is a subject I've thought about a lot and wondered what others thought.

Sold my street bike (98 ZX9R) last year. It was a very good street bike, but I don't miss street riding on it. I enjoy riding my ass off on my current street bike - the one with pedals.

Lowsided yesterday on my track bike (The one with a motor, sort of) in Turn 5 at HPR yesterday. Got up and had the opportunity to "enjoy" how much different turn 5 looks when standing on the outside in the dirt, and watching the corner worker wave the yellow for something I did. Surreal, humiliating and educational!

As bad as it is cleaning dirt off the bike (It is EVERYWHERE!), it is a lot easier to clean off than guardrail. Or granite. Or in the case of street lefthanders, oncoming traffic. And as much as I hate buying/making new parts, it cost less than what the ticket would have cost. Getting a ride back in the crash cart isn't fun, but it cost less than whatever the local towing company would have charged. And if more than my pride would have been wounded, well, glad to know that the ambulance is half a lap away.

Never got hurt that badly on the street, but I felt like I've had an unusually good run of luck on the street and didn't want to find out how that was going to end anymore. I have lots of fond memories of the rides taken with friends in the mountains (Back in New Mexico), but I have no desire to recreate them. Besides, the motorcycles, tires, and pace of, say, 1986 was a little ... different.

Were you on that Tron looking bike thing? What is that exactly?

[fishdip]

I really think gear plays a lot in the you see more ppl go to the hospital on a street crash then on a track also this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXCy6vw0dkI

[madvlad]

Tank slappers.... *shudders*