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Thread: Chicago 2016

  1. #25
    Member Wintermute's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Shea View Post
    So your argument is that regardless of my position on the former administrations Olympic trip, I have no standing to question Obama? Is that it?
    No, I'm just asking if you're an opportunistic hypocrite.

    Tens of billions? Show me where you get that figure?
    I'm not going to play link patty-cake with you. Google it yourself.

    So we spent how much money for him and his wife to fly there for no reason? Well I want that money paid back.
    You want the money back from Bush's trip too? Or are you just an opportunistic hypocrite?

    So Obama was just an innocent bystander, who against his will, was forced to go there on a mission he just KNEW was going to fail. Wow...
    I know it's foreign to you that anyone would ever do anything out of altruism.

    I'm sorry where did I condemn a great American city Wintermute? Or are you just using yet another strawman argument?
    Maybe I wasn't talking to you?
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  2. #26
    Gold Member MetaLord 9's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    I'm not going to grade some Australian's Master's Thesis forecasting that an Olympics that hasn't happened will lose money. I don't give a shit if he gets his degree. For all I know he's a gibbering idiot.
    But also, for all you know, he's 100% correct. You can only refute evidence if you take the time to disprove it. Being to lazy to digest the evidence does not validate your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    As for your disdain for jobs created with taxes, you know what one of the biggest CCC projects in the country was back in the day? Red Rocks. So if you're really, truly against parasitic jobs created with taxes, you better never go to another show up there or be
    branded a hypocrite.
    I believe Dirks' point was that creating jobs just to create them isn't a long lasting or sustainable plan. Money can be better spent fostering an environment of growth which does yield jobs in the long run instead of large, somewhat temporary projects resulting in a derth of jobs that will disappear after the Olypmics almost as fast as the cropped up.

    Dubbing everyone hypocrites does not validate your points either and just comes across as name calling.
    [SIGPIC][SIGPIC]

  3. #27
    Senior Member TFOGGuys's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    How about that notorious Right Wing extremist organ, NPR ?

    Even they say that the host cities most often end up with HUGE debt....

    Actually, tangible economic benefits are elusive. The 1984 Los Angeles Olympics are often hailed for finishing with a $233 million surplus. But Barney says the calculation includes only direct costs of staging the games and not the indirect costs provided by city, state and federal governments. The same is true, he says, for the 1988 Winter Olympics in Calgary in Alberta, Canada, and the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City. Organizers of both games claimed multimillion-dollar surpluses, but neither included massive federal spending when adding up costs.
    Other cities have seen grand Olympic dreams dissipate into massive debt or disgrace. It took the city of Montreal 30 years to pay off the billion-dollar debt it incurred during the 1976 games. Olympic costs for Athens more than tripled to more than $15 billion. Nagano, Japan, spent so much for the 1998 Winter Games, and triggered so much suspicion with its spending, that Olympic organizers destroyed their financial records.
    Last edited by TFOGGuys; Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 at 04:14 PM.
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  4. #28
    Senior Member Lifetime Supporter Shea's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    No, I'm just asking if you're an opportunistic hypocrite.
    So you start out by name calling to prop up your assertions. Awesome...

    I'm not going to play link patty-cake with you. Google it yourself.
    It's your assertion that they will make "tens of BILLIONS" but are unwilling to substantiate it with any sort of facts because it's below you. Not very convincing.

    You want the money back from Bush's trip too? Or are you just an opportunistic hypocrite?
    Again with the name calling.

    I know it's foreign to you that anyone would ever do anything out of altruism.
    A growing theme of yours, to paint me as a cold heartless bastard. Speak to me in person sometime and see how fast your strawman argument falls apart.

    Maybe I wasn't talking to you?
    Perhaps, yet it was in a post directed entirely at me.

    Sir you have taken every opportunity to portray this trip as the administration would like you to and call us all names. We have asked you to back up your assertions, with which you have only replied with name calling.

    You hate Bush, I get it...yet defend Obama at nearly every turn (for nearly the same actions) and have the audacity to call me an opportunistic hypocrite.
    Shea
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  5. #29
    Chief Viffer Lifetime Supporter dirkterrell's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    I'm not going to grade some Australian's Master's Thesis forecasting that an Olympics that hasn't happened will lose money. I don't give a shit if he gets his degree. For all I know he's a gibbering idiot.
    Lame attempt at the inverse of "argument from authority." Fail. If he's wrong, tell us why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    Isn't the fact that cities spend hundreds of millions competing for the Olympics is proof in and of itself that they're a good investment?
    Surely you jest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    Since what you really want to do is play the "The libtard link you supply is biased, here's my rightard source" game, let me introduce you to Google.
    You made a claim. I asked you to back it up. That's all. I don't play libtard/rightard games. I am perfectly willing to entertain the idea that Olympic games might be profitable but I'm not going to just take your (or anyone's) word for it. I want to see the evidence and decide for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    Most of the Olympics are paid for by private funds. Chicago would have paid for overruns. (Which would certainly happen.)
    Show me the analysis.

    Dirk
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  6. #30
    Member Wintermute's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    Sorry for calling names Shea. As usual, I got too worked up.

    But here's the thing. All our debates in here devolve into parodies of the Scottish Lord scene from "Braveheart". We wave around our pieces of paper(links), shouting "I have here documents that prove that Olympics are a huge waste of time!!" or "I have here documents that prove that Universal Healthcare is a socialistic hell-hole!!" It's so futile and circular. You can find a link to prove or disprove about any goddamn thing.

    Sometimes try using common sense and Occam's Razor. For instance, if the Olympics aren't a net good, cities would quit competing for them. But they do compete, spending millions, and for benefits that don't necessarily show up on a cost-benefit analysis.

    Try applying the same logical framework to universal healthcare. If it's so bad, why does it poll so well in countries that have it? Is everybody else in the world dumb and we're smart? Or the other way around? And if we're smart, why isn't any of the rest of the world moving to our healthcare system? Because they're dumb?

    But we don't discuss the broader themes like "Can we call ourselves an ethical society if we sit with our thumbs up our asses while 44,000 of our fellow die in pain and suffering every year?" Instead we have "Well, as to your link that had us at 37th in the world in longevity, here's a link that takes out traffic and gun deaths and has us at 19th, so there!"

    It seems like we've turned into a country that would rather argue then get things done, just like the Scottish Lords. I'll let Bill Maher explain it from last week's show:

    Folks, we don't need more efficient cars. We need something to replace cars. That's what's wrong with these piddly, too-little-too-late half-measures that pass for "reform" these days. They're not reform, they're just putting off actually solving anything to a later day, when we might by some miracle have, a) leaders with balls, and b) a general populace who can think again. Barack Obama has said, "If we were starting from scratch, then a single-payer system would probably make sense." So let's start from scratch.

    Even if they pass the shitty Max Baucus health care bill, it doesn't kick in for 4 years, during which time 175,000 people will die because they're not covered, and about three million will go bankrupt from hospital bills. We have a pretty good idea of the Republican plan for the next three years: Don't let Obama do anything. What kills me is that that's the Democrats' plan, too.

    We weren't always like this. Inert. In 1965, Lyndon Johnson signed Medicare into law and 11 months later seniors were receiving benefits. During World War II, virtually overnight FDR had auto companies making tanks and planes only. In one eight year period, America went from JFK's ridiculous dream of landing a man on the moon, to actually landing a man on the moon.

    This generation has had eight years to build something at Ground Zero. An office building, a museum, an outlet mall, I don't care anymore. I'm tempted to say that, symbolically, all America can do lately is keep digging a hole, but Ground Zero doesn't represent a hole. It is a hole. America: Home of the Freedom Pit. Ironically, it's spitting distance from Wall Street, where they knock down buildings a different way - through foreclosure.

    That's the ultimate sign of our lethargy: millions thrown out of their homes, tossed out of work, lost their life savings, retirements postponed - and they just take it. 30% interest on credit cards? It's a good thing the Supreme Court legalized sodomy a few years ago.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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  7. #31
    Member MileHighColt's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    Damn, I went to a motorcycle club site and a political melee broke out. I think everyone needs to take a shot of their favorite drink, take a deep breath and think about riding canyons.
    Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?
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  8. #32
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by dirkterrell View Post
    Dood, that's friggin' hilarious!
    --------------------------------------------------
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    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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  9. #33
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
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    Re: Chicago 2016

    My question is: If you have a screen name that ends in "Mute", why can't you just STFU?
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
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