CDR opinion

[Lurch]

Well after Saturday it seems people want me to voice their opinion. So I figured I would take a little poll and find out what everyone thinks. You can vote and leave a comment or just vote and be anonymous.

First my comments. Everyone knows how I felt before and my opinion has not changed with the exception that the track is rideable but in no way should we race there without most of the track being resurfaced.

Lurch

[jplracing]

Lurch,

I agree that the track is "rideable", but I don't believe that it is "raceable" in its current state.

The main thing that needs to happen, IMO, is repaving and smoothing it out.

My main concern is that with a 35-40 grid in some classes, we will never be able to complete a race without multiple red flags.

My .02

Joe

[ebazyl]

I think we should add an option to the pole: "Will race there if I am in the points".

[Devil954]

I agree its not that bad but you almost need a dirtbike suspension to go through the dragon slide , the kink going under the bridge and the first kink after the start-finish line . Other than those 3 spots it wasnt to bad . I thought it was a pretty fun ride , But I dont think I would feel safe at race pace until they repave it .

[Kim-n-Dean]

With the extra use CDR is getting and the way the pavement was peeling up with the few bikes Saturday, we probably don't have anything to worry about. It could be down to the dirt by the time of our race and be Motard only. If there is pavement left, however, I'll be racing. I vote for the improvements, though.

[COGIXX]

I have ridden CDR 4 times, 1 practice day, 1 race day, and 2 days where I was helping new riders... IMO This track is by far the worst track I have ever been on... Not only the condition, but the layout sucks!

My very first race weekend, back in 2001 was at CDR.. It was my first and last time ever to race there... I won't go back unless it's only to mess around for an afternoon. To compete there is out of the question for me.

[Lel]

I dont know, I am very inbetween on this topic. I was feeling ok riding the track the other day, AS LONG as you stay in one line and with very very few places safe or non bumpy enough to pass on. Ill race there regardles because we are racing, but I do have some serious worries about a 30+ person grid at this track, hell even a 20-25+ grid.

[Polar X]

well as a newby, I have very little to compare it to. I have ridden Pueblo once, SCR twice and CDR twice.

I like the track layout, the elevation changes are cool and fun. the 2 straights allow you to run the bikes up alittle. that being said. The track is in HORRIBABLE condition. I have raced motocross that was smoother.

If and when they do the repairs that they say are coming, I will race it, and will enjoy it. But, as it sits now, for me, it is too dangerous to run at race pace, let alone with 30 or 40 on it at once.

[cu360r6]

I like the layout of this track a lot better than second creek. With a proper surface this track could be very fun to run at. However there are several spots that need improving. First, on the exit of turn 4 there are two massive bumps that cause the tank to hit you hard in the chest. I was taking it easy there, but I still had the front wheel lift off with my knee down. Second, turn 6 is fine except for directly in the racing line on the entrance there is a very patchy section of pavement that has a hole about 3in wide and 2ft long. If you tires gets caught in there you're gone. Third, the dragon slide needs a proper curb on the apex in the middle of the downhill. I saw 4 different types of pavement there and a lot of gravel. Finally, the seam on the straight is very dangerous. The last track day I was there someone got thier tire stuck in it, and they went into the wall at over 100. That's just with the track's pavement. There are many other objects that need to be cleared up to prevent post get off injuries.
As I said this is a fun track for me, and way better than second creek. I will be racing there, but I wish they would clear up those three things.

[BlueDevil]

Since we have a race there this season....I will race there. Id agree with the pavement. Its totally unsafe. Granted, there are lines through corners. Are they the fastest lines? No If U R alone out there. Its actually quite a fun track. The elevation changes, the layout, going under the bridge, etc. All great. However, you put 2 maybe 3 riders (hell turn 1 at the beginning of a race with 15 riders) all going into the same corner, and each of them wanting to come out of it first....... Only 1 gets the good line. My fingers are crossed the other 2+ make it out of the corner.
With SCR going away, I absolutely see the need for a track up north. I totally agree with the reasons we are racing there this year. Hell if all the races were south, lots of riders wouldnt bother. (Probably me included) Im hoping that by us racing there, it pushes them to get the upgrades they need to bring that track back to race standards. If or when that happens, I cant wait to race it!!!

[Big-J]

I have only passed by CDR so I have no idea what the track is like for racing, but I have heard that the grand stand is condemned. Wouldn't that be a problem for spectators if a race were to be held there?

[nileator01]

My understanding has always been that the owners are not willing to spend money on this track because the city won't let them expand it into the motor complex they wanted. Has something changed that it is now a possiblitlity to have it re-paved?

Re-paving is only one of the serious issues for this track IMO. I know that we race on tracks with small runoff such as SCR but I still feel that this track is the worst because of the bridge turn and the turn going into the dragonslide. Something needs to be done about the guardrail and if you ride off the inside of the dragonslide you will be wishing you were on a dirt bike because it is the roughest section of runoff I've see. There are huge holes, and ruts from cars going off there.

That being said, with all the people that want to race there, I say go ahead and race there. Even if I were in the points (which we all know wont happen ) I personaly wouldn't do that race weekend. But I don't think that should stop anyone else from doing it. Maybe some people enjoy the challenge of racing on it.

[Hoopty]

I think it's significantly more unsafe than any of the other tracks we ride, and it REALLY needs new pavement. If it was re-paved, I wouldn't mind so much, but the danger spots are in the worst place possible, and it's going to be hard to change that. I'm all for them fixing it up, but I have this bad feeling that we are going to lose someone along the way if improvements aren't made. I don't know if it's worth it. I love racing and all, but I don't want to die doing it.

[Anonymous]

I LOVE the Dragon Slide!

I already voted on the MRA forum, so I won't vote again, but my vote was for "I would with major improvements.(paving, moving of barriers etc.)"

... if you ride off the inside of the dragonslide you will be wishing you were on a dirt bike because it is the roughest section of runoff I've see. There are huge holes, and ruts from cars going off there.

I think that's where I crashed.

[Anonymous]

I LOVE the Dragon Slide!

I already voted on the MRA forum, so I won't vote again, but my vote was for "I would with major improvements.(paving, moving of barriers etc.)"

... if you ride off the inside of the dragonslide you will be wishing you were on a dirt bike because it is the roughest section of runoff I've see. There are huge holes, and ruts from cars going off there.

I think that's where I crashed.

Actually you crashed at the exit of the slide, and the end of the tire wall and a small birm prevented you from flying headfirst into turn 8. Unfortunately, it did this by directing you more in a downward fashion. Both you and the bike stopped just short of the pavement. I believe you left a nice divot, I can show it to you on the 16th if you like. :P

I don't have an opinion as to riding on CDR, since I haven't done it. I can tell you that people who had never been there before were going pretty quick for having zero knowledge of the track. I'm going to take advantage of the open practice on the 16th to get a fact-based opinion before I render one.

Also Bluedevil, I'm going to call BS on one thing you said, "Hell if all the races were south, lots of riders wouldnt bother. (Probably me included)". MOST of our races are south, but people still bother. Hell we can't fit all the people on PPIR that want to race there, we had heat races for saturday endurance last year. A non-north track would be an inconvenience, but I don't believe for a second that people would entirely give up the sport if we didn't have something up here to race on. If they do, they weren't that into this stuff to begin with.

[AshliRider44]

DANGER :P I wouldnt even feel too good about doing my first school there... bleh... what do I know anyway never having raced before... but after working turn 6 and seeing them run over pot holes and then shattering large pieces of concrete all over the track, I would have to say repaving or no go.. that is, if I was racing of course not too comfortable with the walls at the ends of the straights and all the bumps on the track either... lets put it this way, watching Hoopty and my friends that race at that track, in an actual EVENT is probably gonna make me REALLY nervous... and I know I'll be praying they try to take it easy so nobody gets hurt or worse... just my .02

[PharmerKyle]

I don't feel eligible to vote in this arena, but I feel the need to voice an opinion. I've taken a few bikes around a few tracks and spend a ton of time daydreaming about racing. I do realize that I'm far too slow and reserved to know a good track from a bad one, but I don't see perfect tracks as an answer.

From a spectator's perspective, I think that a racer's adaptation to bad tracks adds some validity to the competition. Even Mladin had to make some tough decisions about which tracks to race and which tracks to merely survive. Start removing the obstacles and problem solving from road racing and you'll end up with just another version of drag-racing, IMHO.

Practice, set up to handle the worst of it, and do your best; but at least race the stupid fff'd-up track for one season. If the least talented, most suicidal racer ends up on the podium the we'll all know better next year.

[Anonymous]

From a spectator's perspective, I think that a racer's adaptation to bad tracks adds some validity to the competition. Even Mladin had to make some tough decisions about which tracks to race and which tracks to merely survive. Start removing the obstacles and problem solving from road racing and you'll end up with just another version of drag-racing, IMHO.

True, but none of our guys are Mladin (a couple are close). There is a vast level of judgement capability that comes with experience. Seasoned racers, having seen some crap, will know when to hold back and what places can be pushed a bit more. Rookies will put emotion over sense and wad it. Now, this happens on *every* track, in *every* race weekend. Sometimes the seasoned guys eat shit too. But I see more novices eating it in the bad sections of our tracks than experts, usually. Of course this is a general statement of any facility, not necessarily related to CDR.

[PharmerKyle]

True, but none of our guys are Mladin (a couple are close). There is a vast level of judgement capability that comes with experience. Seasoned racers, having seen some crap, will know when to hold back and what places can be pushed a bit more. Rookies will put emotion over sense and wad it. Now, this happens on *every* track, in *every* race weekend. Sometimes the seasoned guys eat shit too. But I see more novices eating it in the bad sections of our tracks than experts, usually. Of course this is a general statement of any facility, not necessarily related to CDR.

If I were racing (fully braced for many BS calls, here), I would (hopefully) see this as an opportunity to accelerate my learning curve on exactly this subject. It would be a survival race only with emphasis on racing the track and not the other riders and special emphasis on suspension/chassis feedback.

The crack about talent/suicidal tendancies sounded better in my head. Apologies. In other words, a winner there is still a winner.

[R1Blue01]

If I may be able to interject one thing. I know the safety of the racers is very important and I am not overlooking that aspect, but you may also want to ask/consider the corner workers and their opinions. If the track is that bad and there is the possibility of that many falls/accidents what have you, wouldn't this also effect the safety of the corner workers.

I know when I was corner working, then later racing, it was/is difficult to find enough to staff the track. Spreading them thinner on such a surface may add to the negative aspects of this situation.

Again, I just want to show the other side of the coin.

Thanks for letting me speak my peice.

Shane

[Dysco]

It's not about spreading the cornerworkers thin, it's like any other track: you have corners that are more likely to see crashes than others. It's all about placing the resources that you have correctly. The big thing is the track surface for me; in any spot, you can sweep with a standard push-broom, and the surface WILL come up (some spots more than others). That means lots of flying gravel and even whole fist-sized chunks of flying concrete and asphalt coming off of tires. If that isn't unsafe, I have no idea what unsafe is. I had to task a cornerworker to pick up rocks out of the straight between turns 5 and 6 between each session and I know that Starter Bob was picking pieces off the start/finish straight. This is the main reason why I don't think the track will last a race weekend- by ROR we'll have entire sections of track where the usable line is made up of jagged bumps and gravel.

As for the runoff sections, it definitely makes me nervous. We could use some fill-dirt on the inside between turns 8 and 9 since there were some holes there I didn't want to hit on my dirtbike- even where the cornerworkers stand there's a large hole that could injure a cornerworker if they were running and didn't see it. Also backing the tires up where Bob went down would be a very good plan- Id rather hit a little mud and worry about fishing a bike out of it than hit a tire wall. This is in addition to the other obvious hazards.

Personally, I'm going to try to ride the track on the 16th but I know that the bike I'll be riding can't go fast enough to generate a whole lot of risk. Were I on a faster bike, I'd definitely think twice before racing there (and I'll be taking it much easier in practice than I do at SCR).

[Lel]

I cornerworked in the morning before the practice and was in turn 4. There was a flagger and a captain and I added at the last second to become an assist there. I dont know how many cornerworkers were at other turns, but I think that there definately needs to be at least 3 at this turn at all times (ie a flagger, captain, assist) I think during practice there was only the two. That turn people are coming into pretty hot after the bridge and hard on the brakes, and it is REALLY bumpy and no run off, of all the turns there that is the one turn I felt I was most likely to crash in. I dont know... I am thinking we need to pay the corner workers more (especially! with how much gas is going to be this summer) from $50 to $75 a day. I know Ill pay an extra 10 on my entry form a race to help pay the cornerworkers... we cant race with out them.

lel

[green_zx7r]

I am with Kyle in that I do not race nor am I good enough to even vote, so I won't, but will voice my opinion since I did crash and break an arm there.

My accident was basically at the kink under the bridge, and though I got bucked off, the bike ended up lowsided to the grass area. Though the accident was caused mainly due to my novice riding, I did feel the pavement changes at the front straight to the bridge area made me nervous every time I passed there. I also feel nervous coming off the dragon slide to the straight section of the track, since pavement is cracking and crumbling like a Chips Ahoy cookie in your lunch bag (childhood memories).

I also was lucky to not slam into either the bridge or the corner working booth when I crashed...

I hope the MRA folks racing there this season will be careful. I know being careful and racing are contradiction in terms, but I just find that track a bit dangerous for going balls out...

Yusuke

[vroomnut]

CDR is certainly a ride-able track. It has potential to be a good RACE track as well…but definitely not in its current condition. The safety issues are clear and apparent. Racing + unsafe track = &$%^@!!&#$&$%!!!! With that said though, I will be racing there this season. I will be exercising a great amount of CAUTION under the circumstances however. I am with BlueDevil… as I SEE the need to have north-metro venues… so I am willing to support the idea of CDR. Otherwise I guess I should just quit my job in Denver & put my house up for sale now…so I can move down to Pueblo to support my racing habit. Yeah… I know the die-hards will be there regardless if CDR & the proposed SCR replacement both go extinct. I think though that the majority of us are barely squeezing by to race all season long. Add gas at $2+ per gallon now & hotel costs on top of that for every event… well thanks for relegating me to part-time racer status. I guess that is good news for all the racers that live in southern Colorado. I think you are going to have a tough time sustaining the growing interest in the MRA though if it does become a southern based operation. Last I looked… I believe Denver-metro was still ahead of the Springs & Pueblo in population. What do I know though… I am just some Novice racer punk content on crashing my bike at every opportunity.