Workout Supplements - Pre and Post

[The Black Knight]

I'm glad this thread was started, i just started working out two weeks ago... Last year i weighed 135lbs, this year i weigh 175lbs, and not it's not muscle. I'm not fate, but i'm not muscle either. So i just started working out to build muscle.. I've really stuck to it thus far, but it's only been a few weeks. I've changed my diet, alot more protein, no soda at all, and i drink mostly water, and some beer. I know the beer isn't good, but i don't go overbored, one or two a week. I'm currently drinking a muscle milk before work out (30mins) and another right after i work out. I'm a bit lost in the gym as to what i need to be doing exactly, i feel scattered. A friend at work has suggested i try No-explode to get me a bit more motivated and to help get a better pump, any suggestions for me?

This might sound cheesy and cliche, but buy a couple magazines of FLEX or Muscular Development. Regardless of the some of the roided up meatheads that are in those mags, they do offer good tips and exercises to use. My favorite was always Muscular Development, because they really focused on all aspects of weight training, from nutrition, to supplements and even information on steroids(which I don't recommend or endorse at all) but the info was in there about the pros and cons in their use.

It always had good info on exercises and tips for training. Plus the editor always had the top bodybuilders do advice columns and you could find some good info in their articles as well. Lee Priest was always my favorite and I'll admit I learned a lot of training tips for shocking your arms from him.

[highpsi03]

Thanks man.

[The Black Knight]

Thanks man.

NP, just remember that just like riding at your own pace, also lift at your own pace. Take the basic concepts that you'll learn from those guys and apply it to your weight routine. Obviously someone that's a greenhorn to lifting isn't going to be lifting what they lift or should even try to for that matter. But modify it to fit your training.

And I think probably the most important piece of advice I've ever heard any experienced lifter give, is "listen to your body". There will be days when you just ain't feeling it, so don't push it. Everyone has those days, I know I did. Sometimes I'd just go into the gym and just kill it and other days when I thought I would have a great workout, turned out to be mediocre at best. Listen to your body, it's the best indicator for when it comes to over-training yourself. Because once you get to over-training, the next step is an injury. And nothing will screw up your workout experience more than an injury.

[FZRguy]

I like Myoplex.

highpsi, a personal trainer is worth the $ if you’re new to the gym.

[(( LO LO ))]

If you want to kill it in the gym.... Get JACK3D! This stuff is amazing!!!




Comes in other flavors too! I have never had the intesity and focus with any other supplement.

And protein, to feed the guns...

And a good multi vitamin for health...

[Sleev]

Caffeine, creatine and whey protein. I cycle on and off the creatine. IMO the whey at gnc is overpriced and one of the highest in cholesterol. Read labels and you'll see what I mean. Vitamin cottage has pure whey protein in bags. It's cheaper than most of the other brands and doesn't have sugar and other additives in it. It also tastes worse. Go figure

[highpsi03]

NP, just remember that just like riding at your own pace, also lift at your own pace. Take the basic concepts that you'll learn from those guys and apply it to your weight routine. Obviously someone that's a greenhorn to lifting isn't going to be lifting what they lift or should even try to for that matter. But modify it to fit your training.

And I think probably the most important piece of advice I've ever heard any experienced lifter give, is "listen to your body". There will be days when you just ain't feeling it, so don't push it. Everyone has those days, I know I did. Sometimes I'd just go into the gym and just kill it and other days when I thought I would have a great workout, turned out to be mediocre at best. Listen to your body, it's the best indicator for when it comes to over-training yourself. Because once you get to over-training, the next step is an injury. And nothing will screw up your workout experience more than an injury.

I agree, the other day i went to work out, got on the machine and just couldn't do it, arms and chest were way to sore, i mean i could have pushed it and did it but i decided not to. Took a swim and went home. Feeling better so i'll hit it up tomorrow. I've looked into personal trainers but they are so pricey, it would seem better to toss someone on here who trains a 20$ or buy a few beers to help me get a good routine.

[rforsythe]

Caffeine, creatine and whey protein. I cycle on and off the creatine. IMO the whey at gnc is overpriced and one of the highest in cholesterol. Read labels and you'll see what I mean. Vitamin cottage has pure whey protein in bags. It's cheaper than most of the other brands and doesn't have sugar and other additives in it. It also tastes worse. Go figure

Consider that the whey protein supplements may come from milk, so if it has lactose (a carbohydrate composed of two simple sugars - glucose, and galactose) that is not really an additive so much as something that wasn't taken away.

Milk as a mixer for your powdered shakes is great as well. Aside from the sugar that your body uses as fuel, the milk fat carries several vitamins and proteins in the globules; there is also the ever-popular whey protein. Of course it also has calcium, which is critical to your body's nonstop process of bone destruction and reconstruction. As long as you aren't lactose intolerant and have a need to burn the fuel, milk is good to drink a lot of.

Interestingly, the majority of people are lactose intolerant as well; it seems that the lactose-metabolizing enzymes fall off after infancy. People of primarily norther-European descent however seem to have a genetic marker that allows them to drink quite a bit of milk without issue. For the rest, there are additives you can put in that will let your body break it down.

[GreenGobblin]

Those who are drinking all the juices, remember that using a juicer to get your fruits and veggies is not even close to the same as eatting them in the whole form. On the other hand there are some good things about using shakes like putting in Acai and other type of fruits/ veggies/ supplements that are not good alone. I work at Whole Foods and know there are a lot of different things that can help out the process of building muscle with the addition of things that most people dont know about.

Everyones comments have seemed to be on the right track, especially with knowing your own body, changing the routine up, etc!

[cromer611]

what if you want to shed pounds(fat) like me so i can keep up with the lean mean dragos next year...



and yes im seriously asking to get rid of my gut and handles.

[dragos13]

Thanks for all the help guys!

I was wondering what everyone thinks about creatine, and more specifically the monohydrate vs the hydrochloride. The reps at GNC said the new hydrochloride is suppose to work better and be safer on the body. I have always used the regular stuff but this month decided to try the new creatine.

And Cromer, you will NEVER keep up with me again

[dragos13]

Another question, I keep hearing you should be taking about 1g of protein per each pound of body weight every day. Is this correct?

Also, is it ok to work abs every day or should you rest them like every other muscle group?

[cdbouncer]

Every muscle group needs rest if you're working it hard. Remember that you're using your core (including your abs) during every single workout that you do. Holding your core tight during cardio and lifting and daily activities along with blasting it every 2 days or so really do a number on those muscles. Don't "hit abs" every work out -- no growth if no recovery.

Are you trying to get bigger? If you want to add mass I'm going to second the lift heavy for fewer reps. I also fell into that category. Also I never did the same 3 moves on back to back days. I always switched up at least one of them. For example - back day - Lat pull, lawnmowers, deadlifts one day...then I'd switch out the deads for tbar or something and switched up the order.

There is something somebody in the gym told me once...you can ALWAYS lift more than you think you can. If you want to build muscle you need to rip it apart so it can grow, then feed it, rest it and do it again.

I always hated creatine....no opinon or knowledge on that part

[MetaLord 9]

Meh. This is all great information, but this is the part of working out that is a higher level than I'm interested in. For me, I'm not fat, I'm not ripped, I'm in between. I consider myself fairly strong and I don't tend to run across any situations where I go "damn, I wish I was a lot stronger." I totally get that some folks are working out with specific goals in mind, but I think that you can achieve a really good state of fitness without a lot of this stuff. I think a small part of why people don't get out & exercise more is because this portion (supplements, shocking your muscles, protein ratios, etc.) is intimidating and probably not all that necessary for the average person.

Do you all think/know you'd be a lot different if you didn't do the supplements? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested. Do you think that the average person can get above average fitness with just a good routine & a decent diet? Or would you all say that the protein & supplements are integral?

[cdbouncer]

I used only isopure protein to supplement when I was playing this game. I needed a good source of protein without the fat and sugar so I went isopure. Before I got serious I tried all sorts of things - it became 100% clear that unless I was 100% on every aspect of the game - the supplements didn't do anything real. Diet, rest, hydration, gym, cardio - 100% or I was wasting my money.

I'm a firm believer that pre / post workout supplements are unnecessary to actually achieve your goals. I think learning your body, figuring out what your body needs for fuel, what it needs for rest and what it wants in the gym is the key.

Supplements certainly can hurt if taken uneducated or without proper follow through on your diet, your rest, your hydration, etc but generally do assist in the actual speed in which you can achieve your goal.

I guess - in short - Nope supplements aren't for the normal "joe"...they're for the guy who's actually really putting life on hold to reach a goal. That's who they're for - that's who gets the results they talk about and that's who's not wasting their cash. imho

[rforsythe]

Do you all think/know you'd be a lot different if you didn't do the supplements? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested. Do you think that the average person can get above average fitness with just a good routine & a decent diet? Or would you all say that the protein & supplements are integral?

It's absolutely possible. But you need to increase and improve your diet beyond what you consume for a sedentary lifestyle. Garbage in = garbage out, so eat nutritious food (and yes, organic really is better). Live on McD's and junk food and it won't matter how much of it you eat or exercise, you will not be healthy. If you're increasing your workload it also stands to reason that you need to increase your fuel intake; protein to build muscle, carbs to give them the energy to function, fat in moderation (unsaturated are good, but a bit of saturated is not bad either - just avoid the trans fatty acids that come from processing food), vitamins to help the body metabolize protein and perform other crucial functions, etc. You don't need to go crazy if you're just trying to burn off some weight and increase cardio, that type of thing, but if you are trying to build muscle mass you need to increase fuel input enough to allow that to occur.

Supplements generally let you work out harder, stressing the muscles more and triggering a more aggressive rebuild process. Some will actually make your blood chemistry change causing muscles to grow faster, those I am not sure about the long term risks of personally. But supplements mean zilch if the underlying diet is crap. Always, always start there.

[MetaLord 9]

Bouncer's & the first part of Ralph's statement make sense (don't have any experience with the second).

I think that people often don't really know how little food/fuel they need in their daily life, which is why so many people over eat. If you ride your bike hard and hit canyons all day, doing 300-400 miles, of course you're gonna need more fuel than you would if you were just commuting to work & back. So it stands to reason that you'd need more fuel for your body when you're spending an hour & a half working out every day versus when you're just parked in a cube exercising your fingertips. I also agree with the garbage in, garbage out mentality on food. I don't always eat that way... :embarrassed: but I do agree with it.

My mentality has always been that if you're gonna spend the time to actually work out, you need to spend the couple of extra minutes figuring out what you want to get out of your workouts. Wanna lose weight? plan your workout accordingly. Wanna get bigger? plan accordingly. Wanna get stronger. plan accordingly. Wanna get chicks to like you? Unless you're obese, you don't need muscles to get a girl, you need confidence. How do you get confidence? Be happy with your body. Not happy with your body? what do you want to change? plan accordingly... Figuring out what you want to do takes less time than the actual workout and it's what makes the time working out well spent.

So are the supplements only for the folks who wanna go hardcore after looks & muscle shape or are they aimed at strength or are they aimed at endurance, etc?

[t_jolt]

Do you all think/know you'd be a lot different if you didn't do the supplements? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested. Do you think that the average person can get above average fitness with just a good routine & a decent diet? Or would you all say that the protein & supplements are integral?

Ive kinda sat back and watched this thread, time for my .02 ive been a trainer for years. My true professional opinion. Yes it can be done. But not on a decent diet. It has to be a good diet. The thing is, any one can but its going to time and effort. You actually have to try. And believe it or not thats not something most people are willing to do. As for what supps to take. Do you have to have all that stuff? No. Will having make it easier? Yes. For the average Joe, A multi vitamin, and protein. Now here is a pet peeve of mine. Everyone needs more the just Whey protein. There are 5 different types of protein out there. Whey is just one.

[dragos13]

Bouncer's & the first part of Ralph's statement make sense (don't have any experience with the second).

I think that people often don't really know how little food/fuel they need in their daily life, which is why so many people over eat. If you ride your bike hard and hit canyons all day, doing 300-400 miles, of course you're gonna need more fuel than you would if you were just commuting to work & back. So it stands to reason that you'd need more fuel for your body when you're spending an hour & a half working out every day versus when you're just parked in a cube exercising your fingertips. I also agree with the garbage in, garbage out mentality on food. I don't always eat that way... :embarrassed: but I do agree with it.

My mentality has always been that if you're gonna spend the time to actually work out, you need to spend the couple of extra minutes figuring out what you want to get out of your workouts. Wanna lose weight? plan your workout accordingly. Wanna get bigger? plan accordingly. Wanna get stronger. plan accordingly. Wanna get chicks to like you? Unless you're obese, you don't need muscles to get a girl, you need confidence. How do you get confidence? Be happy with your body. Not happy with your body? what do you want to change? plan accordingly... Figuring out what you want to do takes less time than the actual workout and it's what makes the time working out well spent.

So are the supplements only for the folks who wanna go hardcore after looks & muscle shape or are they aimed at strength or are they aimed at endurance, etc?

You can find supplements for any aspect of health. They basically do as the name says: supplement your diet. For many years, I have just gotten by in decent shape. I eat healthy and worked out once in a while. I have never considered myself out of shape or over weight. Now, I'm trying to get ripped. Bottom line lol. I want to cut body fat and gain lean muscle.

I take the Nitric Oxide load before workouts to increase energy and focus. Its amazing how well it works to hit the gym hard. Now that I'm paying attention to protein, I realize my current diet sucks. I need WAY more protein then I have been taking. Thats where the Whey shakes and Muscle Milk come into play. As for creatine, its more of a test. I worked out for the past month with just the protein shakes and NO. Now, I'm going to add creatine and see what difference it makes over the next month.

I guess, in short, supplements can most likely help anyone. Are the required to get in shape: NO. Will they make it easier to train harder and longer: YES. Are they proven to show results in muscle recovery: YES.

My current diet consists of:

Coffee
Fruit
Protein bar
Muscle Milk
1/2 lunch (usually turkey wrap or chicken sandwich)
Daily vitamins
1/2 lunch (rest of sandwich or whatever)
Pre-workout supplements (N.O. load)
GYM (1.5-2hrs each day)
Post-workout supplements (Whey protein shake and creatine pills)
Dinner (fish or chicken or beef)
Desert (usually fresh vegetables)

[bulldog]

If you want to kill it in the gym.... Get JACK3D! This stuff is amazing!!!




Comes in other flavors too! I have never had the intesity and focus with any other supplement.

First off, what's up man!!!! Miss you down here in CO....

Never heard of the stuff before, but I searched around the internet and it has got really good reviews. Seems similar to MassPump that I use http://www.saveonsupplements.com/masspump.html


LoLo, you ever tried MassPump? Just wondering how is compared to the Jack3rd. I may have to try this Jack3d out as I know you have been into fitness even longer than me.

[dragos13]

Ive kinda sat back and watched this thread, time for my .02 ive been a trainer for years. My true professional opinion. Yes it can be done. But not on a decent diet. It has to be a good diet. The thing is, any one can but its going to time and effort. You actually have to try. And believe it or not thats not something most people are willing to do. As for what supps to take. Do you have to have all that stuff? No. Will having make it easier? Yes. For the average Joe, A multi vitamin, and protein. Now here is a pet peeve of mine. Everyone needs more the just Whey protein. There are 5 different types of protein out there. Whey is just one.

How do we know which is which? Of course its obvious what a Whey Protein shake consists of, but what about the protein in Muscle Milk, protein bars, chicken, etc?

[t_jolt]

I think that people often don't really know how little food/fuel they need in their daily life

Please be careful with this statement. As average adult needs 1100- 1400 calories a day to just keep the organs healthy. So please dont put a volume association with this. If you eat healthy, that is a good amount of food.

So are the supplements only for the folks who wanna go hardcore after looks & muscle shape or are they aimed at strength or are they aimed at endurance, etc?

They have supps for all.

[puckstr]

Stemcell Smoothy FTW

[MetaLord 9]

Please be careful with this statement. As average adult needs 1100- 1400 calories a day to just keep the organs healthy. So please dont put a volume association with this. If you eat healthy, that is a good amount of food.

Sure, I get that, but when people start counting calories, you can get 1100-1400 calories by supersizing at McDonalds. I understand that there is minimum amount of calories required, but I also think that a lot of folks eat way past that and it's not necessarily a food volume thing. If you're eating well and eating healthy foods then eating at meal times and snacking in between is good. If you're eating calorie heavy food that's less than good for you're eating until you're a little past full at every meal time & maybe a snack, and you're living a mostly sedentary lifestyle (as many are), then I'd think you're eating too much. If you're eating until your full or over full at every mealtime (assuming 3 meals), and you're not eating particularly healthfully, then I'd think you could possibly cut your portions in half and still be fine?