NPR = morons

[Sean]

The difference here is that the Irish are not killing each other because of religious ideas.

Exclusivly, no. But to deny that it played a role would be kind of hard. It also had to do with government and land, but the Protestant/Catholic beliefs were included. Then again, I would have a hard time believeing that terrorists attacked the US 100% for religious reasons.

[dirkterrell]

I used to think that way, but not all terrorist are from impoverished nations. Many of them are born or have lived much of their life outside of "Muslim" countries. Besides, there are plenty of poor people in the US that never turn to violence, so the attraction to Jihad cannot be based on money.

It ultimately comes down to power and money for a handful. The poor masses are used as a tool to achieve those things. The instrument by which the poor are convinced to give/risk their lives to give power/money to the few? Religion. History is replete with examples.

Dirk

[jbnwc]

Exclusivly, no. But to deny that it played a role would be kind of hard. It also had to do with government and land, but the Protestant/Catholic beliefs were included. Then again, I would have a hard time believeing that terrorists attacked the US 100% for religious reasons.

The religious lines had a role to play in their politics, but they aren't killing because one likes infant baptism and the other doesn't, for example. It's a political war.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

What were Muslims doing in Jerusalem? ...and Turkey, Greece, Spain, Austria, etc? hmmmm

Blowing shit up.......

[jbnwc]

Blowing shit up.......

I'm sure it was peaceful, whatever it was. I'm sure they were just migrant workers.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

It ultimately comes down to power and money for a handful. The poor masses are used as a tool to achieve those things. The instrument by which the poor are convinced to give/risk their lives to give power/money to the few? Religion. History is replete with examples.

Dirk

Exactly. But, why is this particular religion so filled with people eager to be suicide bombers? To kill innicents in a day and age where we should know it's wrong. What is it in particular that breeds this type of fanaticism? The very origins of all the religions of the area are shockingly similar, but what made one branch turn the way it did? If it was Christians that were preominantly suicide bombers, then I'd be ragging on them for the same reason. I'm just at a loss to explain why the numbers are so stacked in that area.

[jbnwc]

It ultimately comes down to power and money for a handful. The poor masses are used as a tool to achieve those things. The instrument by which the poor are convinced to give/risk their lives to give power/money to the few? Religion. History is replete with examples.

Dirk

That's interesting since Christianity teaches extensively on giving to the poor. Perhaps Islam is different.

[Sean]

Yes, it is. The vast majority of what are considered terrorist acts are perpatrated by muslims.

And this is why the tread will continue until an admin locks it. There are a lot of terrorist acts that go on in the world and the US doesn't hear about most of them (gotta love filtered news). Many of these different attacks in Asia and South America have nothing to do with Muslims. The ones we hear about do. Because that perpetuates fear (back to a firm Catholic belief)Check out more world news.

The religious lines had a role to play in their politics, but they aren't killing because one likes infant baptism and the other doesn't, for example. It's a political war.

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't it start out as the belief/religion behind the government? And then evoled much more into politics after? The point I was trying to make is that terrorist attacks on the US were not completely religious based. It was only one of their motivators.

[jbnwc]

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't it start out as the belief/religion behind the government? And then evoled much more into politics after? The point I was trying to make is that terrorist attacks on the US were not completely religious based. It was only one of their motivators.

Where they attacking on behalf of Saudi Arabia? Iran? Afghanistan? Oil? Or perhaps they have something against tall buildings or those that aren't square shaped?

[TinkerinWstuff]

Hold on. So it's ok to generalize and say the muslim religion breeds more terrorism than another but not ok to generalize and say that poverty CAN too?

There is no fixed certain rules or the solutions would be easy to see.

[jbnwc]

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't it start out as the belief/religion behind the government? And then evoled much more into politics after? The point I was trying to make is that terrorist attacks on the US were not completely religious based. It was only one of their motivators.

Are you implying that we deserved it? That we "had it coming" so to speak?

[jbnwc]

Hold on. So it's ok to generalize and say the muslim religion breeds more terrorism than another but not ok to generalize and say that poverty CAN too?

There is no fixed certain rules or the solutions would be easy to see.

Unfortunately, there isn't even a correlation to poverty, let alone causation.

[jbnwc]

I'm bored already. Back to work. Good luck solving this one gents.

[Sean]

Where they attacking on behalf of Saudi Arabia? Iran? Afghanistan? Oil? Or perhaps they have something against tall buildings or those that aren't square shaped?

No, none of those reasons. I would say display of power, domination, being recognized/heard as a group/leader, proving that they are a global power to be contended with, are aspects that could play a role in prompting attacks.

Are you implying that we deserved it? That we "had it coming" so to speak?

Not sure how you got that out of my statement, but no.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Maybe no correlation to the ones who flew the plane. But the suicide and roadside bomber in asscrackistan isn't the shopkeeper with ample money to feed his kids.

Unfortunately, there isn't even a correlation to poverty, let alone causation.

[dirkterrell]

Exactly. But, why is this particular religion so filled with people eager to be suicide bombers? To kill innicents in a day and age where we should know it's wrong. What is it in particular that breeds this type of fanaticism? The very origins of all the religions of the area are shockingly similar, but what made one branch turn the way it did? If it was Christians that were preominantly suicide bombers, then I'd be ragging on them for the same reason. I'm just at a loss to explain why the numbers are so stacked in that area.

It' not the religion per se driving it, but the desire of a few for power and/or wealth. And in a (mostly) religiously homogeneous society, it is easier for those few to whip up massive numbers of people to support a given idea and demonize the small numbers of those who are against it. The same approach can work in an ethnically homogeneous society. (By homogeneous, I mean that a large majority of the population slots into one category, be it religion, ethnicity, whatever is relevant to the idea being debated.) Nazi Germany was an example of the ethnic approach.

The Founding Fathers recognized this and it was a driver for the idea of separation of church and state. Government wields tremendous power and by removing the explicit use of religion for making governing decisions, you have a better chance of avoiding the use of that power to enforce religious concepts. That is freedom at its most fundamental level.

Dirk

[dirkterrell]

That's interesting since Christianity teaches extensively on giving to the poor. Perhaps Islam is different.

It is no different in Islam. But, again, it is not the religion itself that is the source of the strife we are talking about, but a subset of the population who use the religion to achieve their power/money ambitions.

Dirk

[Filo]

When was the last time a bunch of Catholics flew jets into a building?

Timothy McVeigh. Oh, wait, that was a truck.

[Filo]

It' not the religion per se driving it, but the desire of a few for power and/or wealth. And in a (mostly) religiously homogeneous society, it is easier for those few to whip up massive numbers of people to support a given idea and demonize the small numbers of those who are against it. The same approach can work in an ethnically homogeneous society. (By homogeneous, I mean that a large majority of the population slots into one category, be it religion, ethnicity, whatever is relevant to the idea being debated.) Nazi Germany was an example of the ethnic approach.

The Founding Fathers recognized this and it was a driver for the idea of separation of church and state. Government wields tremendous power and by removing the explicit use of religion for making governing decisions, you have a better chance of avoiding the use of that power to enforce religious concepts. That is freedom at its most fundamental level.

Dirk

Don't you dare bring reason to this, or I am going to have to add middle aged white VFR riders to my group of boogie men. Along with Muslims and Catholics. And Jews. And Blacks. And Carnies.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Timothy McVeigh. Oh, wait, that was a truck.

Ok, that was ONE......any others you can name beside him and the nutjob who flew his plane into the IRS building for other than religious reasons? One, does not a trend make.

[Filo]

Ok, that was ONE......any others you can name beside him and the nutjob who flew his plane into the IRS building for other than religious reasons? One, does not a trend make.

I won't limit myself to just this country, and for the most part I will just name groups, not individuals...

Sons of Freedom
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Padraic Pearse
Brian OHiggins
Lord's Resistance Army
Army of God
Lambs of Christ
Concerned Christians
Hutaree
Oh, and the Ku Klux Klan

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I won't limit myself to just this country, and for the most part I will just name groups, not individuals...

Sons of Freedom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Freedom_(band) (Them Kanadian rock musicians LOOOOVE to fly planes into buildings, eh?)

National Liberation Front of Tripura
Padraic Pearse
Brian OHiggins
Lord's Resistance Army
Army of God
Lambs of Christ
Concerned Christians
Hutaree
Oh, and the Ku Klux Klan

Have the combined acts of ALL these groups equalled just the 9/11 attacks in terms of death count and billions of dollars in damage? If so, then obviously we have Christians as our worst enemy.

[Aphrodite]

Rush was talking about this today, glad to see he is not the only one that is talking.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Rush was talking about this today, glad to see he is not the only one that is talking.

Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson, and Neil Peart were talking about NPR????