Let's do some math...

[The Black Knight]

I average 55 MPG with my DRZ (E model with fresh top-end, ported head, JD jet kit). My FZR gets 60 (really), and my Jeep gets 20. I used to live 17 miles from work and rode my bicycle three days per week, moto one day, and Jeep one day. Now I live less than two miles from work and ride my bicycle every day (moto one or two days during the season). So gas prices really don't affect me much.

Man I wish I was that close to my work, cause for sure I'd ride my mountain bike in and really save on the petrol. But I'm about as far out as you used to be(think I'm right at 15 miles one way) and have way to many hills HAHA!! Plus I ain't gettin up that early to bike to work.

[tecknojoe]

If you want a WR250, lemme know

[derekm]

< parked fairlane

<driving wifes beetle

[modette99]

..

[usmcab35]

i keep the big rig parked and drive either a bike or my vw jetta to work. the jetta gets high 30's for mpg and the bike gets 45ish

[The Black Knight]

I disagree with the guy on a lot of levels, but I thought that about vehicles before I ever heard of Dave Ramsey. He is more for those that really NEED help and have spending problems. I got the audio CD's and could not relate, I actually felt good after hearing the stuff because it made me wonder who "these poor fucks are" that live paycheck to paycheck. Oh, thats right its my neighbors playing the "lets keep up with the Joneses game".

The thing is he takes it a little extreme for my taste. But then again there are great reliable vehicles for $10K so one does not need to go as low as $1,000. And like I said if you keep the vehicle a long time, then I see nothing wrong with BUYING a $30K-$40K vehicle. You are right at the end of the day it is the persons money, I just don't want to hear that dumb fuck complain when he should retire but can not because he never saved. Also don't come to the Government looking for handouts either.

Do people really ask you how much it cost to fill up??? LOL I never talk to people at pumps, I guess it is why I hated it when I had the Explorer the other SUV guy trying to bond...sorry buddy, I'm just getting gas.

I hate to say it but I got this pet peeve of people buying vehicles they can not afford to fuel, or barely can afford. Gas goes up (it does not take a rocket scientist to see it coming) and then the extra $1 a gallon is at their tipping point. I just want to bitch slap the dude and say, "what were you thinking when you bought the vehicle"? Same with the dude on a motorcycle that wears his bike tire down to the belt because he can not afford a new tire and then bitches and complains...its like "are you kidding me if $120-$150 is going to break the bank then you don't need the luxury item (motorcycle) and I don't feel sorry for you". Sorry OP it almost sounds like you.

If an extra $1 a gallon breaks the bank you need to look closely at your life as a whole. You probably should sell the truck, and get a cheap vehicle. Could you not cut out maybe eating out once a week or even a month to pay the difference in gas cost? I mean it cost the wife and I $25-$100 every time we eat out....cut one, maybe two times and there you go it pays for any extra fuel charges. Maybe cancelling the 100+ Cable subscription you have, or cancelling the smartphone and getting a normal cell or even no cell. I'm sure there are other wasteful things you do you can cut out. I bet the OP could quickly find the extra way to fund the fuel cost if he looked around, people that tend to live on the edge tend to live there throughout their life and not just on one item.

One thing I will agree with Dave Ramsey is, people do consider those out of debt nuts. We are not 100% there, but with only a few debts remaining (house and wifes vehicle) are we the crazy ones!!! Gas can go to $8 a gallon, yeah we won't like paying it but its not going to bankrupt us either.

I only post to help people, I hope the OP can get his stuff straight and begin to save...I want to see people building wealth and not complaining in 30 years when they wake up and have nothing.

Oh I've got two of Ramsey's books(Total Money Makeover & Financial Peace). Both are excellent reading, and I picked up a lot of tips from the books. Like I say, I agree with probably 90% of what the man says. I just differ from him when it comes to vehicles.

And you're right, there are plenty of $10k vehicles running around. But I've always looked at it from both sides of the coin. Not everyone has $10k to drop on a nice used vehicle. And most $10k vehicles are either to old, are lost there value enough that they cannot be financed by those same people that don't have the $10k to pay up front. Which is why they have to move up to something that they can pay for but have to get financed for. Which sucks because it's the auto industry that's made everything depreciate like it does. Only thing that makes my truck worth anything is the fact that it's a Diesel(a + $7k option) but if it had the plain jane Hemi V8, yep NADA on it tanks.

And yes, I do get from time to time, people asking me questions about the truck at the fuel pumps. Most of the time, it's other diesel guys but I'd say a good percent have been people just trying/wanting to poke fun because I've got a 40 gallon tank to fill vs. their 11 gallon. And like I say, if it's another Diesel guy then I don't mind, it's just pointless chit chat when fueling. It's the "do you really need a truck that big??" remarks that send me from 0 to Pissed Off, that I can't stand.

And there are ways around not feeling it so hard at the pumps. I won't let the truck go below 1/2 tank. Usually can throw $30-$40(brings me to between 3/4 and Full) and that lasts me the whole work week and then some. So right now, if I'm shelling out $120 in fuel a month, it's ain't bad but it ain't good either. I'm just looking forward to warmer weather so I can get the bike out and park the truck. Then I'll be chuckling when I fill up for $10-$15 a week as opposed to $40.

[Ricky]

I just bought my 3rd new car in the last 3 years. Had the first for a year, had the second for 2, then just traded it in for another one. Is it expensive? Yup. Is it worth it to me? Yup. But I also have a Toyota pickup that has like 250k miles on it, and I've owned it for around 8 years. Great vehicle, but if I were to add up all the expenses on that truck that I paid $6500 for (not including insurance and gas, just repairs and maintenance) I have easily spent over $20k on that truck. Tires are a grand by themselves, and at 250k miles there's a lot of stuff that eventually all of it needs to be replaced. And what's sad is that no part of the engine or transmission has ever been swapped out. Not the timing chain, not the clutch, not valve work, nothing. I've done header-back exhaust.

Now, in the next 5 years, 100% of the maintenance on my new car is paid for (except tires and brake pads). I have an 8 year 120k mile warranty, so no major repairs to think of until long after it's paid off. Comparing my two vehicles, I'm not going to spend as much on repairs of my old vehicle, as I am on the payment of my new vehicle, but it's all how you look at it. Spend money on a new car and do nothing, or spend money on a used vehicle that needs to go to the shop every once in awhile (meaning you may have to find alternate transportation) and have a few hundred dumped into it. With the new car, I will spend more, and have less hassle. With the old car, I have more hassle, and have to pay a lot of people labor if I can't do the job myself. It's all about how you look at it. I have both, but I'd rather have the new car with 0 issues than have the used paid off car that I'm having to constantly maintain.
My tacoma has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. That's why I kept it and got a second vehicle. But no vehicle, no matter how reliable, can go without maintenance.

I bought my CBR brand new, and while I probably could have found a bike for half the price and ended up paying half that amount, I got a bike with 0 miles on it that nobody else has ridden or dropped, but me. It runs perfectly, has no issues, and still has the lame-o extended factory warranty for another year. No reason to switch it out until it becomes a money pit. To me, in a way, that's worth some extra cash. I bought my WR250 last year for $1900. I immediately had to drop about $400 into it on new tires, rejet/port and tune.

If I had the choice to have an old piece of shit that I own outright, but I drop $100+ into every month on repairs, or lease a brand new vehicle for around $300/mo, I'm going to pay the extra to have the nicer item that I don't have to maintain.

I budget about $200/mo for gas between 4 vehicles. Work alone is about $100-120/mo, and the rest is for the extra-curricular activities..

[The Black Knight]

I just bought my 3rd new car in the last 3 years. Had the first for a year, had the second for 2, then just traded it in for another one. Is it expensive? Yup. Is it worth it to me? Yup. But I also have a Toyota pickup that has like 250k miles on it, and I've owned it for around 8 years. Great vehicle, but if I were to add up all the expenses on that truck that I paid $6500 for (not including insurance and gas, just repairs and maintenance) I have easily spent over $20k on that truck. Tires are a grand by themselves, and at 250k miles there's a lot of stuff that eventually all of it needs to be replaced. And what's sad is that no part of the engine or transmission has ever been swapped out. Not the timing chain, not the clutch, not valve work, nothing. I've done header-back exhaust.

Now, in the next 5 years, 100% of the maintenance on my new car is paid for (except tires and brake pads). I have an 8 year 120k mile warranty, so no major repairs to think of until long after it's paid off. Comparing my two vehicles, I'm not going to spend as much on repairs of my old vehicle, as I am on the payment of my new vehicle, but it's all how you look at it. Spend money on a new car and do nothing, or spend money on a used vehicle that needs to go to the shop every once in awhile (meaning you may have to find alternate transportation) and have a few hundred dumped into it. With the new car, I will spend more, and have less hassle. With the old car, I have more hassle, and have to pay a lot of people labor if I can't do the job myself. It's all about how you look at it. I have both, but I'd rather have the new car with 0 issues than have the used paid off car that I'm having to constantly maintain.
My tacoma has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. That's why I kept it and got a second vehicle. But no vehicle, no matter how reliable, can go without maintenance.

I bought my CBR brand new, and while I probably could have found a bike for half the price and ended up paying half that amount, I got a bike with 0 miles on it that nobody else has ridden or dropped, but me. It runs perfectly, has no issues, and still has the lame-o extended factory warranty for another year. No reason to switch it out until it becomes a money pit. To me, in a way, that's worth some extra cash. I bought my WR250 last year for $1900. I immediately had to drop about $400 into it on new tires, rejet/port and tune.

If I had the choice to have an old piece of shit that I own outright, but I drop $100+ into every month on repairs, or lease a brand new vehicle for around $300/mo, I'm going to pay the extra to have the nicer item that I don't have to maintain.

I budget about $200/mo for gas between 4 vehicles. Work alone is about $100-120/mo, and the rest is for the extra-curricular activities..

And see that's how I've always looked at a "lease" as well. One area that I also differ from Dave Ramsey. I think that if you're one of those folks that likes to change out vehicles every couple of years, then by all means lease.

I know people call it fleecing(Dave Ramsey does) but it makes sense if you don't want to keep it forever and just want to keep getting the next latest and greatest. Which I see nothing wrong with.

I've thought about leasing but have always opted to buy. But I've been one of those that keeps a vehicle about 2 years and then has changed. I figured I had cured myself of that when I bought my 2500 Dodge Cummins. I was completely content with the truck. I had my dream truck and it did everything I needed. Only part was the monthly payment. After trying several times to do re-finances it just didn't happen. And it wasn't for lack of down payment or great credit. It's just banks aren't looking to do re-fi's because of the economy. So I figured next best option is find a truck that's cheaper and in the monthly payment I was looking to get while trying re-fi's. I lucked out and found a truck one year newer(albeit with more miles, but diesels it don't matter) that was below what I was looking to get into. So it was win win for me.

I agree, I'd much rather pay for something that's either new or newer, than have a shitbox that constantly needs money in it. I had an old 1970 F250 that I didn't pay much for. Yeah it was nice having a paid for truck, it was rough but I was working on it. Only problem, fuel was killing me. An old big block loves sucking the petrol down. Hell even when fuel was cheap(under $2.00) I was still paying $400 a month in fuel. I averaged 9-10mpg's, either in town or on the road, it didn't matter. Parts were cheap as hell, which was nice but it was always something that needed to be changed. Like your Toyota, my old F250's motor and trans were perfect. But it was the piddly things that added up. If it wasn't a belt, it was heater hoses, then radiator hoses, or completely re-doing the electrical on it(which was easy, but still an expense). Only thing that did rock on that truck was the heater and I knew at some point that would go. The truck road like shit too. Every bump, dip, uneven part in the road I'd feel. It was loud in the cab.

Hell my 3500 dually, rides amazing, is quiet and comfortable to drive. I'll gladly pay for the creature comforts and the less maintenance issues anyday.

[modette99]

..

[The Black Knight]

A 2005 Ford Focus ST isn't old. That's a contemporary car. My 1970 F250 was old. A classic by DMV standards. That's old to me, hell it was already 10 years old when I was born. So to me, that's old. Not a 2005 Focus.

I could give you a run down of vehicles I've owned(over 20 since started driving at age 16) but I won't as that would take way to much time. Suffice to say, the ones I paid for in cash(some cheap, some several grand) were all in some way shape or form a bit of a money pit. But I can say this, that every vehicle I've financed(with the exception of one) have been reliable and problem free.

Does one pay more for a financed vehicle?? Yep, for sure. Am I willing to trade the money I pay a month for the reliability I get?? You bet....

And I'm just like you, I do all of my own maintenance. Unless it's a project that I can't do and it's mainly because I don't have the proper tools to get the job done, or else I would do it.

For me it's half a dozen of one, dozen of the other. And as for keeping up with the "Jones' " I really don't give a shit what so and so down the street drives. I drive what I drive because it's what I want and I use it for what I want to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

[FZRguy]

Well, I bought my 1990 Jeep Wrangler new in late 1989 for $11k. It's been paid off since 1993, and the lack of a payment has saved my ass a few times. It's got around 146k miles and still runs okay, but I'm REALLY tired of driving it. Was looking at new Tacoma's just the other night. But $30k for a new truck, or even a used one for $20k, I no can do.