Wisconsin Senate

[The GECCO]

Irony can be so ironic...

For those not following the story - like most states, Wisconsin is basically broke. The Governor introduced a "budget repair bill" into the state Senate that included removing union bargaining power from most state employed workers, allowing the state to renegotiate their benefits packages as a way to reduce the states payroll expenses. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just trying to state the facts of what's been going on.

So, the Democratic members of the Senate knew they would lose the vote on this bill, so their solution was to leave the state, going to Illinois and staying in a hotel. The logic behind this is that without their presence, there is no quorum and a quorum is necessary to take a vote on any measure that spends money (as the budget repair bill would). They have been gone for three weeks, despite repeated requests to return and discuss the issue.

The remaining (ie, Republican) members of the Senate changed the language of the bill to remove any expenditures (ie, no quorum necessary) and kept only the language that removes the state unions bargaining power, and put it up for a vote. It passed 18-1. The protesters in the gallery before/after vote screamed that the Senators were "cowards" and now the Democrats are rushing back to Wisconsin to "join the people of Wisconsin in taking back their government"

Wow....I don't know where to start with this one...

[Sean]

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[TinkerinWstuff]

I grew up in MN and lived in WI for many years before migrating to CO. Still own a property in WI I haven't been able to sell as of yet.

I think it's gutless, ridiculous, and lacks honor to flee the state just because you can't get your way. The republicans took their lickins when they were the minority and health care passed (federal). And now that they are a majority, they attempt to change the law again.

There's no honor in parlor tricks to circumvent the rules - it happens on both sides all the time but this one takes the cake. GET BACK TO WORK!

[CaneZach]

The State of Wisconsin created an entitlement state. Their employees pay ZERO into their retirement, but the unions would rather bankrupt the state instead of seeing that change. I think Wisconsin is asking their employees to begin contributing something small, like 5%. In comparison, I've had to increase my contribution to my retirement by 5% over the last two years, which means I'm now contributing either 12.5% or 15% now (I'm not sure which).

Naturally, this has become the liberal cause du jour, which explains the irony of their leaders refusing to vote, running to another state, then screaming "cowards" at others.

[Skinbabe]

Does it matter that getting rid of unions doesnt change the budget any? Unions are gone, the budget is still the same?? And the way they made it pass with out needed the Dems there was to take out any language that had any thing to do with finances? That and the entire meeting was illegal with out the 24 hour notice per WI state law... but no one cares about that... just let the Republicans do what ever they want... in fact, let them pass a bill that will allow one person "emergency power" and in that power let them get rid of politicians and pass laws as they feel is "best". Sounds great... I think I will move there (insert sarcasm here)

[jbnwc]

The State of Wisconsin created an entitlement state. Their employees pay ZERO into their retirement, but the unions would rather bankrupt the state instead of seeing that change. I think Wisconsin is asking their employees to begin contributing something small, like 5%. In comparison, I've had to increase my contribution to my retirement by 5% over the last two years, which means I'm now contributing either 12.5% or 15% now (I'm not sure which).

Naturally, this has become the liberal cause du jour, which explains the irony of their leaders refusing to vote, running to another state, then screaming "cowards" at others.

Amen! What do you do with such crybabies? They want everything handed to them and the second you ask them to work for something, they scream and pout like 3 year olds. Despicable. They all need to be put in a corner with their nose to the wall and treated like the whiney little brats that they are.

[jbnwc]

Does it matter that getting rid of unions doesnt change the budget any? Unions are gone, the budget is still the same?? And the way they made it pass with out needed the Dems there was to take out any language that had any thing to do with finances? That and the entire meeting was illegal with out the 24 hour notice per WI state law... but no one cares about that... just let the Republicans do what ever they want... in fact, let them pass a bill that will allow one person "emergency power" and in that power let them get rid of politicians and pass laws as they feel is "best". Sounds great... I think I will move there (insert sarcasm here)

Let me rephrase what the Wisconsin liberals did here:
"If I can't win, I'm taking my ball and going home!! hmph!"

[TinkerinWstuff]

Does it matter that

No, it doesn't. The dems should have stayed and done the job they were elected to do.

Besides that, It's time unions quit holding people hostage.

[Skinbabe]

Let me rephrase what the Wisconsin liberals did here:
"If I can't win, I'm taking my ball and going home!! hmph!"

Does it matter that it's not was the majority of people in WI want?? Guess they should have thought of that at voting time, but still.

[Skinbabe]

Besides that, It's time unions quit holding people hostage.

What about all that unions DO to help employees??

[TinkerinWstuff]

What about all that unions DO to help employees??

Right. What they do is price their employees out of a job. Look at the big three auto makers, Northwest airline mechanics, shall I go on?

I've worked in unions. I'm not just speaking off the cuff here. I also met with a gentleman last week who started the Toolmakers union in MN. Even he said unions have gone too far.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Unions are a business for profit. They sit there and collect everyone's money, protect the dirtball lazy guy from being fired for cause, and then run in thumping their chest and holding the employer hostage at bargaining time. Meanwhile, the wages become uncompetitive with the rest of the country and eventually the jobs go over seas.

[jbnwc]

Unions are a business for profit. They sit there and collect everyone's money, protect the dirtball lazy guy from being fired for cause, and then run in thumping their chest and holding the employer hostage at bargaining time. Meanwhile, the wages become uncompetitive with the rest of the country and eventually the jobs go over seas.

Unions served a purpose in the 1800's and they might be good to have in modern day China, but the ONLY thing they bring to modern American is economic ruin.

[dirkterrell]

Thomas Sowell just wrote a column that I found interesting:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...hs_109142.html

Dirk

[TinkerinWstuff]

Unions served a purpose in the 1800's and they might be good to have in modern day China, but the ONLY thing they bring to modern American is economic ruin.

Agreed 100%. Unions brought attention to the worker when only the powerful could get any attention or favor in government. People banded together, held the employer hostage, and got fair treatment.

Today, in the 24hr instant media age, someone is always looking to bring the latest scandal to a TV or smartphone near you, unions are no longer needed.

[jbnwc]

Does it matter that it's not was the majority of people in WI want?? Guess they should have thought of that at voting time, but still.

If they really want something, they need to talk with their representatives and try to make a logical(ha!) argument for whatever it is that they want. Instead, they are crying and pouting and leaving the discussion table. This is not how adults should act. Especially those that are supposed to be "leaders". What the WI liberals did is reprehensible.

[jbnwc]

Thomas Sowell just wrote a column that I found interesting:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...hs_109142.html

Dirk

Thomas Sowell is my hero. That guy has more logic and reason in his little toe than most of us ever dreamed of having.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Michael Moore has joined the fight encouraging students to leave school.

Michael Moore is enraged after the Wisconsin State Senate voted to strip public unions of the ability to collectively bargain. Speaking on MSNBC's "Rachel Maddow Show," Moore said "they think they can get away with this."

Moore also calls for a "student walk-out" across the nation on Friday in response to the Wisconsin vote.

"This has to continue day after day and these governors have to step down," Moore declared.

"The rich have committed these crimes and the people will demand your ass is in jail," Michael Moore said with a pair of handcuffs on the set of Maddow's show.

Moore also shocked the audience by telling the rich and bankers that "we have a right to your money!"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...is_is_war.html

[dirkterrell]

Moore also shocked the audience by telling the rich and bankers that "we have a right to your money!"

Hey, maybe we should demand that he give us some of his money.

Dirk

[Shea]

What about all that unions DO to help employees??

Could you quantify this?

[CaneZach]

On an aside, a majority of America didn't want Obama screwing with healthcare. I don't see that stopping him. Children want to ignore homework and eat nothing but candy and McDonalds, but parents don't let them.

The governor is responsible for ensuring the state can function. He isn't responsible for bending to the will of the unions who would fiddle while Rome burned. The unions in Wisconsin are like a child who would rather get a penny today than a nickel tomorrow. They would rather bankrupt the future than sacrifice for the greater good, which is incredibly hypocritical considering the liberals are all about what's best for the "greater good", until THEY'RE the ones who have to sacrifice.

[TinkerinWstuff]

What about all that unions DO to help employees??

(insert sarcasm here)

Fixed it








Sorry, all in fun. I know it's a serious topic but I couldn't resist

[TinkerinWstuff]

hrm...

I just wondered. The senate didn't give notice on their vote of the amended bill. Not sure if that will matter with regard to the legality of the procedure or not. But I wondered if it was just a ploy to get the Dems to come back to work. Once they show up back in the hall, maybe there can be a vote on the original bill and the state will have a quorum?

[Canuck]

Could you quantify this?

-Provide a basis for work structure. More specifically a system for work skill(s). Apprenticeships, Journymen, Foremen, etc.

-Education and Training associated with these status'. Must prove with training and experience your worth and skill level.

-Cheaper health care. As a collective bargaining group, they can reduce the overall costs while increasing the quality of care by the strength of said Union.

-Provide a more livible wage. This can be subjective, since some Unions are overpaid and some arent getting that much more than the minimum wage. This is also a two way street. Yes, I agree that the UAW of old were way over compensated. But the car manufactorers aren't innocent in agreeing with those costs, especially when there products were inferior to most of the competition.

-Provide a representative to work conditions, safety and other work related issues. This I also subjective as I can say that my Local is very weak in the representation of us to the contractors. It is better to have this than nothing at all.


Unlike what the college drop out Walker has stated, Wisconsin isn't "Broke".

The public sector unions already agreed to the cuts that were proposed, but that wasn't good enough for the Plutocrats (Koch Co, etc) that are behind this. It's simply union busting. An opportunity to roll back worker rights that we all enjoy. The loss of collective bargaining is what started these protests.