Pueblo weather...

[UglyDogRacing]

Safety comes first. We are not paid professionals. I was behind Mike Applehans when he went down coming out of 10 yesterday morning. His bike was already upright when the back-end kicked out and threw him down. He was on an SV650 with half the horsepower of the liter bikes. Not racing was the right decision whether the MRA board would have made the decision or put it to the riders to vote. I will gladly eat my $140 entry fee in return for no broken bones and having a bike in my garage that is still in one piece.
The irony of this is that if Glenn would have made the decision to race or the racers voted to race, we would see a bunch of posts on this site and the MRA site criticizing the decision due to all the injuries and wadded up bikes that would have resulted from it.

[Anonymous]

So you know, none of this decision should fall solely on Glenn's shoulders. We as the board discussed it at length and all decided that racing was becoming very unsafe, and that while you *could* just putt around the track, we were probably gonna have a lot of problems. The exit of T10 all the way to start-finish was slicker than anyone expected as Mike demonstrated for us, and visibility was rapidly worsening.

While we "run in wet track conditions", this was worse than just some rain on the track. I think we would have called it either way, but I am glad the vast majority of the racers there voted to stop and race another day.

[japrules]

Hmmm.. was there snow on the track during Mike's shunt? If not, I realize Mike is a great rider, but the error falls on him.. you can't blame a wet track on this sort of thing.. too much throttle even with 70hp will put you on your butt.. we all know the conditions and we all have to drive in them.. However, if freezing was involved.. all bets are off.. a bike is uncontrollable.. Maybe this was your point, I dunno.. wasn't there..

If I even saw a snowflake I would have been off the track instantly... but thats me.. some of u guys are just plain nuts!

Safety comes first. We are not paid professionals. I was behind Mike Applehans when he went down coming out of 10 yesterday morning. His bike was already upright when the back-end kicked out and threw him down. He was on an SV650 with half the horsepower of the liter bikes. Not racing was the right decision whether the MRA board would have made the decision or put it to the riders to vote. I will gladly eat my $140 entry fee in return for no broken bones and having a bike in my garage that is still in one piece.
The irony of this is that if Glenn would have made the decision to race or the racers voted to race, we would see a bunch of posts on this site and the MRA site criticizing the decision due to all the injuries and wadded up bikes that would have resulted from it.

[Polar X]

No snow on the track, just falling from the sky. The track itself was starting to get wet again. and the temp was 38. He just looked like he got on it a little to hard and skip skip dirt

There were a few low sides that morning, all due to cold tires I would guess.

[japrules]

Well; its hard to see frozen crap when it hits a wet track.. I would have been outa there...

No snow on the track, just falling from the sky. The track itself was starting to get wet again. and the temp was 38. He just looked like he got on it a little to hard and skip skip dirt

There were a few low sides that morning, all due to cold tires I would guess.

[UglyDogRacing]

Hmmm.. was there snow on the track during Mike's shunt? If not, I realize Mike is a great rider, but the error falls on him.. you can't blame a wet track on this sort of thing.. too much throttle even with 70hp will put you on your butt.. we all know the conditions and we all have to drive in them.. However, if freezing was involved.. all bets are off.. a bike is uncontrollable.. Maybe this was your point, I dunno.. wasn't there..

If I even saw a snowflake I would have been off the track instantly... but thats me.. some of u guys are just plain nuts!

you obviously have never ridden turn 10 at pueblo when its cold and wet.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm.. was there snow on the track during Mike's shunt? If not, I realize Mike is a great rider, but the error falls on him.. you can't blame a wet track on this sort of thing.. too much throttle even with 70hp will put you on your butt.. we all know the conditions and we all have to drive in them.. However, if freezing was involved.. all bets are off.. a bike is uncontrollable.. Maybe this was your point, I dunno.. wasn't there..

So you weren't even there and have never raced... Have absolutely no frame of reference on this... and are passing judgement on the skills of a very experienced rider? It's ironic, since you have just about posted every other reply in this thread.

And YES, I absolutely CAN blame a wet track on this. Mike wasn't in the turn when he crashed, he was straight up and getting on the gas for the straight, when the bike just tossed him. It was because of the traction compound laid for the drag racers, which wasn't supposed to be there anymore, which turns slick as ice when it gets water on it. The track was not frozen nor was there snow on it, but this wasn't Mike's doing. The 3 bikes before him fishtailed nicely as well.

Get some laps under your belt before you start telling seasoned experts why they crashed, or why we should or shouldn't consider a turn unsafe.

[hcr25]

!st off It was my fault! I was the one riding my bike. 2nd my sv makes more like 60 hp not 70hp. I knew the conditions of the track the weather and more importantly my skills.I was riding about 60 to 65%.just for a comparison i usually ride first practice session of the morning about 80% of my race pace.
When the rear end came around i was basically straight up and down.
The bottom line is the drag strip made it unsafe to race. not so much because it was wet but because of how cold it was.
We had alot of first year novices who have never raced before let alone race in the rain/sleet/near freezing conditions.If anyone thought it would have been safe to race,they are WRONG.
Could we have rode around and just collected points? Yes but that is not racing.
The end of this year will be my 10th straight year racing in the MRA. I did this on a 60ish horsepower sv 650. What would have happened to the new novice on a 150+ hp 1000cc bike?

On a side note that was the longest i have ever slid after a crash.
Use the best safety gear you can afford

[japrules]

Sorry guys.. didn't mean to piss you off.. I have many many miles on wet tracks in a race car.. same principle applies.. this has nothing to do with which track or where or any of that.. its principals of adhesion.. rubber, wet, and a surface... NO, you can't blame a wet track on this.. it is what it is.. the rider is responsible for understanding the conditions.. end of story.. its not really debateable... You can't race in the wet and say, oh I crashed because it was wet.. unless someone came out with a hose and hosed the track down before you knew it.. you crashed because you exceeded the adhesion limitations of the current surface condition.. I would say that snow or ice (as I mentioned in my previous post) would be an exclusion I think on a motorcycle.. its basically an uncontrollable situation.. and I pointed that out...

Do you think any MotoGP rider would say, Oh I crashed because it was wet, the race should have been cancelled? No, of course not. As I stated, IF we were talking about freezing conditions then I agree with the original posters observation.. but he was taking what might have been a "wet" racing incident and somehow justifying the cancellation of the race.. thats just not right.. we race in the wet... end of story.. well, as far as I know that is.. maybe I am wrong about this. My understanding was it was cancelled due to freezing conditions.. is this not the case?

I bet if you asked Mike if it was his fault he's say YES! I met Mike.. he is a super nice guy and he completely understands racing... and he so fricken fast its scary.. I watched him at CDR... jesus!


also, don't put words in my mouth... I never mentioned any turn.. I don't even know why you are talking about a turn and whether its unsafe... it has nothing to do with this thread... you are just confusing things.

Furthermore, I don't see how your reply is appropriate.. the tone of it seems overkill for what I actually said..

Hmmm.. was there snow on the track during Mike's shunt? If not, I realize Mike is a great rider, but the error falls on him.. you can't blame a wet track on this sort of thing.. too much throttle even with 70hp will put you on your butt.. we all know the conditions and we all have to drive in them.. However, if freezing was involved.. all bets are off.. a bike is uncontrollable.. Maybe this was your point, I dunno.. wasn't there..

So you weren't even there and have never raced... Have absolutely no frame of reference on this... and are passing judgement on the skills of a very experienced rider? It's ironic, since you have just about posted every other reply in this thread.

And YES, I absolutely CAN blame a wet track on this. Mike wasn't in the turn when he crashed, he was straight up and getting on the gas for the straight, when the bike just tossed him. It was because of the traction compound laid for the drag racers, which wasn't supposed to be there anymore, which turns slick as ice when it gets water on it. The track was not frozen nor was there snow on it, but this wasn't Mike's doing. The 3 bikes before him fishtailed nicely as well.

Get some laps under your belt before you start telling seasoned experts why they crashed, or why we should or shouldn't consider a turn unsafe.

[japrules]

Ooops.. I see he posted while I was typing... Ears burning Mike?

[hcr25]

Ears not burning but the left side of my ass hurts. Actually i am sore in general.The only thing the does not hurt is my head.If you would have seen my helmet you would have thought it was much worse.
mike

[japrules]

Also,.. when I said "some of you guys are nuts".. I didn't mean that in a deragotory way... it was actually a compliment.. maybe I should have said you have bigger balls than me..

Man, rforsythe has really got me on the defensive... have we met BTW? My comments were not meant as deragotory towards anyone.. you seemed to turn them into that though.. sounds like Mike understood them which I am really thankful for..

Joe

[NineTwoFour]

Man, rforsythe has really got me on the defensive... have we met BTW?
Joe

I am going to use my psychic powers to predict your future.

I see a flag... a black one. With a big orange dot on it. It's being pointed at you. I see Pikes Peak in the background...

I wonder what it all means????

[Anonymous]

Man, rforsythe has really got me on the defensive...

Don't worry about Ralph, I think it's that time of the month for him!

[japrules]

Oh great! I pissed off a flagger? I'm so done...

Man, rforsythe has really got me on the defensive... have we met BTW?
Joe

I am going to use my psychic powers to predict your future.

I see a flag... a black one. With a big orange dot on it. It's being pointed at you. I see Pikes Peak in the background...

I wonder what it all means????

[Hoopty]

Oh great! I pissed off a flagger? I'm so done...

A flagger? More like a flaggot!

[Anonymous]

I pissed off a flagger?

Worse - Ralph is the MRA Track Marshal - this gives him control of the flaggers!

I'm so done...

Yup!




J/K I hear he can be bribed

A flagger? More like a flaggot!

[japrules]

I can only hope bribery is an option...

I pissed off a flagger?

Worse - Ralph is the MRA Track Marshal - this gives him control of the flaggers!

I'm so done...

Yup!




J/K I hear he can be bribed

A flagger? More like a flaggot!

[Lel]

Talking about a specific turn is part of this thread, and not off topic.

Turn 10 is the one mike went down in/after and it is 100% different than any other part of the track. There is about 3 or 4 different types of pavement, a traction compound that is reallly slick to begin with, but anything from dust to water makes that turn extremely slick.

As far as 'knowing the conditions' the thing is, the temp, the surface and the visability changed within about 5 mins from medicore to wet and cold. Put it this way, mike can wipe the floor with me, and I was doing 45's at 80-85% no more!!! than 10 mins before mike went down and I think the fastest in his session was around a 50. The conditions changed extrememly fast. so take that as you will.

[japrules]

Talking about a specific turn is part of this thread, and not off topic.

Turn 10 is the one mike went down in/after and it is 100% different than any other part of the track. There is about 3 or 4 different types of pavement, a traction compound that is reallly slick to begin with, but anything from dust to water makes that turn extremely slick.

As far as 'knowing the conditions' the thing is, the temp, the surface and the visability changed within about 5 mins from medicore to wet and cold. Put it this way, mike can wipe the floor with me, and I was doing 45's at 80-85% no more!!! than 10 mins before mike went down and I think the fastest in his session was around a 50. The conditions changed extrememly fast. so take that as you will.

Hey guys I'm done here.. I'm not going to continue to defend myself.. I have to race with you guys and part of this deal for me was to have fun hangin out with you guys cuz I am sick of all the wussie ass colorado guys I keep running into off the track... so I am going to bow outa here and hope I haven't done too much damage.. AND try and keep my mouth shut in the future, no matter how good my intentions are.

Hope to see you all @ PPIR..
Joe

[hcr25]

Joe,try not to take anything here to personal.
The way i take most peoples opinions on racing/track days here is by the way they ride.
Some talk a big talk about racing and everything to do with it.Some of those people have less then a year or two racing experience!

people should just Go to the track and let their riding talk for them.Im not saying they have to be the fastest out there.Just be in control,hold your line and be a good sportsman.
This is all about having fun,making friends and of course beating the guy next to you.
mike

[Polar X]

Joe,try not to take anything here to personal.
This is all about having fun,making friends and of course beating the guy next to you.
mike

AMEN.

[Anonymous]

Joe, no hard feelings. And while it is true that mike was in control (or not so much) of the bike when he crashed, I think if he had known the surface was in that condition he'd have coasted through, or pulled off. The other riders that suddenly started sliding all over probably didn't see it coming either. This wasn't the first lap of practice, we were actually almost done with the session - the surface conditions literally changed so fast that I didn't have time to get from turn 7 to turn 10 through the pits before Mike crashed, after Bob (start finish guy) told me people had started to slide in a bad way; and I had only been out at T7 for 5 minutes or so. Mike assumed it would be stickier, so I guess that bad assumption contributed to his sliding down the straight on his ass - however in this case, the track is partly to blame IMO, since it definitely had more traction when we started.

Regardless, if anyone is getting meatballed in this thread it will be Loopty aka "Mr Crash". Hell I will probably make his girlfriend come down and hold his number up when I do it!

[King Nothing]

Regardless, if anyone is getting meatballed in this thread it will be Loopty aka "Mr Crash". Hell I will probably make his girlfriend come down and hold his number up when I do it!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That would be quite possibly the funniest thing of all time! Then she could go back to her corner and pick up his bike on the next lap!