What we really got with Obamacare

[Wrider]

Keep in mind Stitch that they won't be paying military, military contractors, government contractors, government employees (except for themselves of course), etc.
I can't find the figures but I'm sure that's gotta be close to 20% of the economy. Now imagine that 20% of the economy says "Well since I can't afford to buy anything, I won't!" and shuts their wallets.
That will affect the other 80% of the economy, especially in Colorado where we have a LOT of military/government contractors.

I'm not sure if it sounds like I'm attacking you but I'm not trying to. I honestly feel the government has gotten much too large for it's own good and for the good of the country. I feel the entitlement programs and nanny laws have gotten to be way too intrusive, and feel that a lot of laws should be cut out of the books or at least way back.

IMHO there is no reason that our printed law should be as long as it is today. You know how long our federal tax code is? Neither does any member of Congress. According to the official printing office it's only a mere 16,845 pages long.
To put that into perspective, the King James version of the Bible (the one used by most modern Christians) is around 1200 pages in it's shortest form, and 1700 in it's longer forms. That's anywhere from 10 to 14 times the length of the Bible.

[Rhino]

That's anywhere from 10 to 14 times the length of the Bible.

Jesus only expected 10% of your earnings, the gubberment wants 14 times that.

[Darth Do'Urden]

Lockheed put out an email that they are NOT shutting any doors or laying off if the gov't shuts down. So that's something. Hopefully other gov't contractors put safeguards in place to do the same. Military customers will still show up to work, they'll just have to wait on backpay (been there done that), so I don't foresee too many gov't contractors needing to shut down except for contracts that have not yet been "turned on"--these are the ones that are gonna get hurt.

As for Obamacare...my wife and I ditched health insurance for good. Rather than spend $400/mo. in premiums alone (which admittedly isn't the worst in the world) PLUS meds, emergency room, whatever else MIGHT come up, we've decided to budget for medical costs on our own. Screw insurance companies as well as Obama's crap. I'll take care of my own my own way. If more of America would do the same we might have a chance of getting this particular monkey off our collective back and actually make some headway.

[Finklestein87]

As for Obamacare...my wife and I ditched health insurance for good. Rather than spend $400/mo. in premiums alone (which admittedly isn't the worst in the world) PLUS meds, emergency room, whatever else MIGHT come up, we've decided to budget for medical costs on our own. Screw insurance companies as well as Obama's crap. I'll take care of my own my own way. If more of America would do the same we might have a chance of getting this particular monkey off our collective back and actually make some headway.

I dislocated by shoulder for the second time, and this time around just went straight to the ER. The costs were over $5k, my deductible was only $200.

[JonnyD]

Lockheed put out an email that they are NOT shutting any doors or laying off if the gov't shuts down. So that's something. Hopefully other gov't contractors put safeguards in place to do the same. Military customers will still show up to work, they'll just have to wait on backpay (been there done that), so I don't foresee too many gov't contractors needing to shut down except for contracts that have not yet been "turned on"--these are the ones that are gonna get hurt.

I'm a gubment contractor as well, and we're being told to report for work Monday as normal until a signed form goes across my boss's desk saying to not come in. At that point, we'd be going to 2 people on call each day for the 5% of the USGS that is working. Time to start racking up some miles in the mountains.

[DFab]

Interesting read. Pretty much my take on the big picture...

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=183855

The tax systems he recommends are great. I've read about something similar called the "clean slate". Pretty much a hybrid of the two he talks about.

He's right about cutting military spending; he's wrong about nuclear power. Nuclear power is only economically feasible when you ignore the costs of long term waste storage and disaster cleanup. The only reason we have nuclear power now is because the tax payers are responsible for these costs.

As far as denying emergency care to illegals, it may be true that the majority of 2nd/3rd world countries do this, but 1st world countries don't. I don't think it would have wide public support here either.

I would advocate for a limited primary health insurance system payed for through taxes, that covers basic medical care and emergency care, combined with a secondary private insurance market. Life long dialysis and other high cost procedures would not be covered by primary insurance.

A lot of good stuff in that blog though; I am now subscribed.

[longrider]

Interesting read. Pretty much my take on the big picture...

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=183855

I have to agree with what is said in that article, unfortunately ti will never happen until everything collapses This is one of the few times I am glad to be a FOG, hopefully things wont get too unbearable in the next 30 years...

[stitch]

Keep in mind Stitch that they won't be paying military, military contractors, government contractors, government employees (except for themselves of course), etc.
I can't find the figures but I'm sure that's gotta be close to 20% of the economy. Now imagine that 20% of the economy says "Well since I can't afford to buy anything, I won't!" and shuts their wallets.
That will affect the other 80% of the economy, especially in Colorado where we have a LOT of military/government contractors.

I'm not sure if it sounds like I'm attacking you but I'm not trying to. I honestly feel the government has gotten much too large for it's own good and for the good of the country. I feel the entitlement programs and nanny laws have gotten to be way too intrusive, and feel that a lot of laws should be cut out of the books or at least way back.

IMHO there is no reason that our printed law should be as long as it is today. You know how long our federal tax code is? Neither does any member of Congress. According to the official printing office it's only a mere 16,845 pages long.
To put that into perspective, the King James version of the Bible (the one used by most modern Christians) is around 1200 pages in it's shortest form, and 1700 in it's longer forms. That's anywhere from 10 to 14 times the length of the Bible.

No worries dude, I didn't see it as an attack at all. We obviously are in agreement on almost everything.

In my previous post about this I said "Of course the military should get paid no matter what! Congress will continue to get a paycheck through this but our military members fighting 3 wars (technically four) will get nothing." I am a military vet (disabled) and I won't get a check that I sorely need right now. I am also heading into a VA hospital next week for an important procedure that will be affected by this (possibly canceled). So believe me I understand the full situation and how it will affect our Vets.

I checked the figures on BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) and it included the contracting personnel in the 8% figure. So I don't think it is a 20% figure. I could be wrong because I am relying on a government figure (God known they can't do math) but I agree it has the potential to impact far greater amounts of our economy. But again the bigger picture goal is to lower spending now before we have no choice. If our economy tanks, we won't be able to put a few workers on paid vacation (meaning the gov.). If our dollar tanks, the entire world is in trouble. With the way we are spending now we are not far from the dollar being worthless. And now other nations are actively working against the dollar (OPEC trying to use something other than the dollar for valuing oil for example). Add to that the close of oil at 112 today. A large part of our economy is based on the transfer of goods. If gas gets too expensive we can't transport goods or the price gets to a point that few can afford it. We already see inflation skyrocketing (tried to by milk lately or anything made with cotton?). If we don't get our dollar under control we are wholly and completely screwed.

I often referred to what happened to USSR during the 90s as what we can expect but I admit now I was wrong. The Russian ruble wasn't as important to the world economy as the dollar. If the dollar tanks, what happens to China or Japan or Israel or just about anywhere else.

However I want to point out that it is interesting that actual government employees will not lose any actual pay they just have to "potentially" wait a little longer for it. This puts us right back to where we were under English rule. With a leadership which is a benefactor of the people. That isn't how our country was founded. The people should be a benefactor of the government. When the government gets entitlements that the people don't enjoy or when our government is not beholden to the same laws that it's people are something has gone wrong in our system. That is what we see happening here. Time to put a stop to this.

[tecknojoe]

For us contractors, it will vary by program. thank jesus my program was given the green light today. Since we're paid up to a certain date(in our case, it's a month from now) that's money that we have the right to spend on our employees. Therefore, we'll keep working. It's just difficult because if our customers aren't there to give demands, we have to govern ourselves.

none of the contracting companies would do layoffs or anything crazy, they aren't gov run. But if you are in a period where you're either waiting on funding or about to renew funding, you're in the sketchy zone and likely will not be working until it's over.

The news is talking about how abortion is mixed up in this bull shit. Why the fuck is abortion being discussed in a budget crisis. The issue here is that money needs to be approved to be spent, or else we are going to have a million people not working in this country. Huge hit on the economy every day this continues. abortion? gtfo

[stitch]

For us contractors, it will vary by program. thank jesus my program was given the green light today. Since we're paid up to a certain date(in our case, it's a month from now) that's money that we have the right to spend on our employees. Therefore, we'll keep working. It's just difficult because if our customers aren't there to give demands, we have to govern ourselves.

none of the contracting companies would do layoffs or anything crazy, they aren't gov run. But if you are in a period where you're either waiting on funding or about to renew funding, you're in the sketchy zone and likely will not be working until it's over.

The news is talking about how abortion is mixed up in this bull shit. Why the fuck is abortion being discussed in a budget crisis. The issue here is that money needs to be approved to be spent, or else we are going to have a million people not working in this country. Huge hit on the economy every day this continues. abortion? gtfo

Actually what I heard the latest hang up was access for women to have breast exams. What a cluster fuck.

[Shea]

He's right about cutting military spending; he's wrong about nuclear power. Nuclear power is only economically feasible when you ignore the costs of long term waste storage and disaster cleanup. The only reason we have nuclear power now is because the tax payers are responsible for these costs.

And the alternative energy sources are only economically feasible due to HEAVY government subsidizes and the only reason they are in existence is due to tax payers floating the costs. (Points at GE)

As with any technology (be it nucular solar/wind, whathaveyou) progress is made to make them more efficient, cheaper, and more reliable. Nuclear is much farther down that road then any of the alternatives.

Natural gas fired plants are by far the most economical source of power currently (in cost per MwH) but we can't build those, because they are bad...

Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/elec...eneration.html

[stitch]

Here's irony for ya.....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...less-benefits/

If the federal government shuts down Friday night, more than 2 million federal workers across the country are facing temporary layoffs or no paychecks. Yet for the 800,000 workers who would be laid off -- deemed non-essential -- they can file for unemployment benefits.
By midday, most important federal employees had been told whether they have been deemed essential or would be temporarily laid off. But exactly when they can file for benefits and the amount they receive depends on the state where they work.
Contrary to popular belief, about 85 percent of federal workers work outside of Washington. Many of them are concentrated in Maryland, Virginia, California, Texas, Florida and New York.
In Maryland, where there are 262,000 federal workers, they qualify for unemployment benefits from the first day of a shutdown, and could get a maximum of $430 a week.
Mike Raia, spokesman for the state Department of Labor, said the division has plans in place to handle additional claims.


"If the shutdown happens on Friday, there will be an application up on that site early next week, either Monday or Tuesday, that will allow federal employees to file their claim online," he said.
It takes a week for federal employees in Virginia and D.C. to qualify. The top benefit in Washington is $359, and $378 in Virginia.
There's a one-week waiting period in California, where there are 254,100 federal government workers, 62,000 of them in the Department of Defense. The top benefit is $450.
Kevin Callori, spokesman for the state Employment Development Department, told FoxNews.com that the department is not doing anything "out of the ordinary" in the event of a flood of claims due to a prolonged shutdown.
"We've gotten used to that with the current recession," he said. "We have staff available. We should be able to handle that."
New York, which has 130,000 federal workers, also said it was ready for a shutdown.
"A federal government shutdown will not impact New York's ability to disburse regular, extended and emergency unemployment benefits to claimants," Leo Rosales, spokesman for the state Department of Labor, told FoxNews.com.
In Texas, there are about 200,000 federal employees who can apply for benefits as soon as shutdown occurs. The maximum benefit is $415.
In Florida, the federal government's 175,000 workers can apply for benefits immediately. The top benefit is $275.
It's not yet clear which workers get to stay on the job during a shutdown. Under long-standing federal rules, agencies would not be affected that provide for U.S. national security, dispense most types of federal benefit payments, offer inpatient medical care or outpatient emergency care, ensure the safe use of food and drugs, manage air traffic, protect and monitor borders and coastlines, guard prisoners, conduct criminal investigations and law enforcement, oversee power distribution and oversee banks.
Mail deliveries would continue in the event of a shutdown. U.S. postal operations are not subsidized by tax dollars.
In Washington, 21,000 employees have been deemed essential and are expected to work. That includes police officers, firefighters and emergency officials as well as officials who work in public health and with school-age children. Notifications were going out Friday afternoon to employees.
Non-essential employees won't be able to come to work, volunteer or use their government-issued Blackberries.
The American Federation of Government Employees, the nation's largest federal union, filed a lawsuit against the Obama administration over the looming shutdown, arguing that ordering federal employees to work without pay during a shutdown violates the U.S. Constitution.
"Hundreds of thousands of federal employees will be required to work during a shutdown, and there's no guarantee that Congress will keep the administration's promise to pay those employees once the shutdown is over," AFGE National President John Gage said in a statement.

[stitch]

So what does this mean. Gov workers get a paid vacation that we get to pay for. They are eligible for unemployment but yet they still get their salary when the budget is approved. What a cluster fuck.

[dirkterrell]

The tax systems he recommends are great. I've read about something similar called the "clean slate". Pretty much a hybrid of the two he talks about.

Yep, it sure would be good to see a tax system that can't be bent and twisted to enforce each side's idea of morality.

He's right about cutting military spending; he's wrong about nuclear power. Nuclear power is only economically feasible when you ignore the costs of long term waste storage and disaster cleanup. The only reason we have nuclear power now is because the tax payers are responsible for these costs.

That's because we use the wrong kind of reactors. He talks about a better way here:

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-ww...lepost=2491667

As far as denying emergency care to illegals, it may be true that the majority of 2nd/3rd world countries do this, but 1st world countries don't. I don't think it would have wide public support here either.

Solve the part about illegals being here and you don't have to worry about it.

I would advocate for a limited primary health insurance system payed for through taxes, that covers basic medical care and emergency care, combined with a secondary private insurance market. Life long dialysis and other high cost procedures would not be covered by primary insurance.

I would prefer to see both be non-government functions.

[dirkterrell]

[Ricky]

Take away investors and profit from the medical and medical insurance industry, and you have an industry that has no choice but to focus on the patient first, not the profit. I'm really confused why this was never even considered.