Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 24 of 69

Thread: Photo Radar has a flaw

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yearly Supporter Swift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rastle Cock
    Posts
    876

    Photo Radar has a flaw

    I'll be sure to flip the damn things off if they ever flash at me.


    Denver– FOX31 Denver caught photo radar vans running red lights, speeding, and parking illegally on sidewalks all across the metro area, but no matter how many times FOX 31 Denver confronted the Photo Radar van operators they continued to break the law to enforce the law, and the van operator’s seem to think they can disregard our questions.So how would you like to disregard your photo radar ticket?
    Criminal Defense attorney, Gary Pirosko says it’s easier than you might think.
    “People believe it’s a legal process and they would get in trouble if they didn’t respond and that’s not the case,” he said.
    Pirosko has a history of fighting photo radar. He challenged the legality of photo radar and successfully stopped Denver’s program back in 2002, but only temporarily.
    Still, Pirosko knows the best way to get out of a photo radar ticket, he says just don’t pay the notice that arrives in the mail.
    That’s right.
    The mailed “notice of violation” may look official, even downright threatening.
    But according to Colorado State Statute 42-4-110.5, photo radar tickets are not valid unless it is personally served and that means physically handed to you.
    “And personal service doesn’t include being mailed a copy. It means actually being handed a copy,” he said.
    Pirosko also says the city only has 90 days to personally serve your citation.
    “If they can’t hand it to someone within those 90 days the ticket has to be dismissed and never filed again,” he said.
    To avoid being “personally served,” Pirosko recommends you don’t answer your door to strangers.
    “That’s good advice no matter what the circumstances,” he said.
    If you live in a different jurisdiction than where you got your photo radar ticket, Pirosko says you’re probably even less likely to get served, “if the city has to spend $50, $60, $70 dollars or more to collect on a $40 ticket, it’s not going to be worth it for the city to pursue you,” he said.
    And here’s something else you should know: photo radar enforcers can’t give you a ticket if you are going 25 miles per hour or more over the posted limit because driving that fast is a criminal offense and the ticket has to be issued by an actual police officer.
    So, ironically, the most dangerous drivers don’t get caught by photo radar, while people going 10 miles per hour over the limit pay the price.
    To be clear, FOX 31 does not condone speeding.
    According the Denver Police Department (which oversees the photo radar program):

    • The total revenue collected from the photo radar program in 2010 was $3,652,193.28
    • The city of Denver only spent $36,750 to “personally serve” those tickets.

    Pirosko says the numbers show an overwhelming majority of drivers are paying the mailed notices even though they are not required to by law, “there’s not a disclaimer on those notices that says you don’t have to respond to this, “ he said, “and there’s a reason for that, it’s a money making cash cow for the city.”
    We sent the Denver Police Department a list of questions including, “If the statute says drivers have to be physically served a photo radar ticket, why should they pay the notices they receive in the mail?”
    The Denver Police Department did not answer those questions or agree to do an on camera interview, but sent us a statement which says in part, “The purpose of photo radar is to reduce speeds, especially in safety zones, such as school zones.”
    Still, drivers we talked to say they rarely see photo radar vans in school zones, construction zones or residential areas, instead they’re parked illegally on sidewalks near heavily travelled roads like University boulevard, Santa Fe, and 6th avenue.
    But Pirosko says if you don’t like the Photo Radar vans there is something you can do about it.
    He says the photo radar program would stop in a flash, if it started costing the city too much to collect.
    If you don’t pay the mailed “notice of violation,” you won’t lose any point on your license, you’re driving record will not be effected and your car cannot be booted.
    If you ignore the mailed notice and the city manages to track you down to “personally serve” your citation—you will be charged a fee of at least $25 for that “personal service as well as the cost of your ticket.
    Other ways to get out of a photo radar ticket:

    • If you are not the pictured driver, mail in a clear photo copy of your driver’s license and the city will dismiss your ticket.
    • The city has to be able to identify the violator (driver) if the notice is sent to a leasing company (for a leased vehicle) or a corporation name (fleet vehicle) you are not obligated to pay.
    • You are under no legal obligation to identify the driver.

    2003 BMW R1150R - For Sale - PM for details
    2007 BMW 328Xi Coupe - The Cage


  2. #2
    Member SloBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Berthoud, CO
    Posts
    219

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I saw the promo for this story on Fox, but I missed the story. Thanks for posting it! Great info.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

    '03 Honda vtr1000f Super Hawk
    '07 Honda XR650L

  3. #3
    Senior Member Vellos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Truckee, CA
    Posts
    1,952

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I rage past those guys because the ones I've seen only take pictures of the front. Give 'em a little wave!

    And for all motorcyclists we could just say we weren't the driver. Unless you were when you got snapped.
    Last edited by Vellos; Thu Apr 28th, 2011 at 11:09 PM.
    George Mock | 2008 ZX6R | GoPro Hero | 3:551 5806

  4. #4
    Member Drunktank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lakewood
    Posts
    242

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I probably recieved 50 of those in Phoenix.... never paid a single one and no one ever came to my door trying to serve me either. Glad to see CO law is the same. Radar vans are a freaking joke.... how about the city lay off some of their leech workers and SAVE money.
    Ryan ~ 2007 Speed Triple.
    If danger came from the tap, I'd shower in that shit!

  5. #5
    Senior Member TinkerinWstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Windsor
    Posts
    3,017

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellos View Post
    I rage past those guys because the ones I've seen only take pictures of the front. Give 'em a little wave!

    And for all motorcyclists we could just say we weren't the driver. Unless you were when you got snapped.
    they snap a photo of the front and rear. But the law also states that a citation cannot be issued if the photo doesn't positively ID the driver (helmet anyone?). If the vehicle is joint registered, the citation is issued to the driver who looks like the proper name (i.e. John & Jane).

    I have not paid a photo ticket yet. If I'm cutting it close on a red light camera, I pull down the visor and sit up in the seat so the camera cannot see my face.
    1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html

    1999 DR650SE

  6. #6
    Senior Member CaneZach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Down in the dirty dirty
    Posts
    1,802

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I can't stand enforcement for the sake of revenue generation, which is all photo radar is. Same goes for red light cameras. I can't stand asshats who run red lights, but the cameras are there solely to collect $$$ for their respective municipalities.

  7. #7
    Member BushyAR15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    S/E Aurora
    Posts
    307

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    This article and news report specifically address Denver, what about the other Metro cities that use it such as Aurora?

    Are the laws the same?
    2016 Honda Africa Twin
    2015 Ducati Monster 1200s Stripe
    And Freakin' Old

  8. #8
    Senior Member TinkerinWstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Windsor
    Posts
    3,017

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by BushyAR15 View Post
    This article and news report specifically address Denver, what about the other Metro cities that use it such as Aurora?

    Are the laws the same?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post

    But according to Colorado State Statute 42-4-110.5, photo radar tickets are not valid unless it is personally served and that means physically handed to you.
    Aurora is in Colorado right?
    1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html

    1999 DR650SE

  9. #9
    Senior Member cbrjohnny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Galaxy far far away!
    Posts
    600

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    this is good stuff

  10. #10
    Member Ol'Skool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Broomfield
    Posts
    169

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I also saw a news story recently where rear end collisions are up drasticly since photo radar was started. Drivers are slamming on their brakes on yellow. So much for the "enforcing safety" defense.
    Whatdja learn?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ricky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    DenCO
    Posts
    2,150

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Wow, this is just what I needed. I got a photo radar ticket in the mail the other day. I was going to pay it, but I also considered paying in the form of 8000 checks (since you can't pay in cash, or pennies), just to be an asshole. But now I'll just let it go, and not answer the door.

    Holy shit, I just realized that my ticket is invalid. I was going 26mph over the speed limit. 81mph in a 55mph
    2008 Honda CBR600RR - Graffiti
    2002 Yamaha WR250F

  12. #12
    Senior Member TinkerinWstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Windsor
    Posts
    3,017

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
    Wow, this is just what I needed. I got a photo radar ticket in the mail the other day. I was going to pay it, but I also considered paying in the form of 8000 checks (since you can't pay in cash, or pennies), just to be an asshole. But now I'll just let it go, and not answer the door.

    Holy shit, I just realized that my ticket is invalid. I was going 26mph over the speed limit. 81mph in a 55mph
    In the cage?
    1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html

    1999 DR650SE

  13. #13
    Senior Member Ricky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    DenCO
    Posts
    2,150

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerinWstuff View Post
    In the cage?
    Yup.... right at the beginning of the construction zone coming off 270 onto 70.
    2008 Honda CBR600RR - Graffiti
    2002 Yamaha WR250F

  14. #14
    Senior Member TinkerinWstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Windsor
    Posts
    3,017

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
    Yup.... right at the beginning of the construction zone coming off 270 onto 70.
    Figured as much. I don't know anyone on a bike whose ever received a photo ticket. The biggest issue being that they have to be able to ID the driver.
    1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html

    1999 DR650SE

  15. #15
    Senior Member TinkerinWstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Windsor
    Posts
    3,017

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    From what I hear, Canada is different. The ticket goes to the owner of the vehicle regardless and traffic law states that the owner is responsible. If you don't want tickets generated by another driver, don't loan out your car.
    1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html

    1999 DR650SE

  16. #16
    Senior Member Ricky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    DenCO
    Posts
    2,150

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerinWstuff View Post
    Figured as much. I don't know anyone on a bike whose ever received a photo ticket. The biggest issue being that they have to be able to ID the driver.
    Yup, and it's a clear shot of my face, except that I'm wearing a beanie, sunglasses, and full beard. On my license picture (how they prove whether or not it's you) I'm clean shaven.

    Either way, I just emailed that attorney in that story to ask him if I should fight that ticket since it's invalid, or just let it go.... we'll see what he says.
    2008 Honda CBR600RR - Graffiti
    2002 Yamaha WR250F

  17. #17
    Senior Member Ricky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    DenCO
    Posts
    2,150

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerinWstuff View Post
    From what I hear, Canada is different. The ticket goes to the owner of the vehicle regardless and traffic law states that the owner is responsible. If you don't want tickets generated by another driver, don't loan out your car.
    My Dad got on in Spain while in a car they rented. $90. Car rental company forwarded him the ticket and identified him as the driver. I had to call over there and ask them to send photos because they didn't have any proof it was him. If you don't pay the ticket, they can keep you from entering the country and other countries in the EU. Fuckin crazy.
    2008 Honda CBR600RR - Graffiti
    2002 Yamaha WR250F

  18. #18
    Senior Member birchyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,576

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I'd be very wary of not paying tickets based on a news story. I took a quick look at the current law and didn't see anything about a requirement that the citation be "personally served". The only thing I found with a quick scan was regarding how much cost the issuing service can charge the municipality for sending the notice.

    The story says that the lawyer challenged the law, had it suspended in 2002 but the suspension was quickly overturned. There is a section of the law that was deleted in 2002 but it doesn't give the text and I haven't dug back into the 2002 archives to see what it was.

    If I read it too fast and someone else has read this portion of the law I'll stand corrected :-)

    Edit: found where the "personally served" portion was removed:

    http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_d...02a/sl_178.htm
    Last edited by birchyboy; Fri Apr 29th, 2011 at 09:38 AM.

  19. #19
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The white section of Aurora (Tallyn's Reach)
    Posts
    9,331

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Excellent post, thanks!
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

  20. #20
    Senior Member birchyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,576

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I emailed the local Fox news stations and sent them a link to the amendment removing the "personally served" portion of the bill. This is what I got in return:

    Well, Alan, the city had plenty of time to respond to this, the city attorney agreed with our interpretation. Thanks for the email though and for taking time to write.

    Heidi Hemmat
    Investigative Reporter
    Do with this what you will :-)

  21. #21
    Chief Viffer Lifetime Supporter dirkterrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Erie
    Posts
    5,871

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by birchyboy View Post
    I emailed the local Fox news stations and sent them a link to the amendment removing the "personally served" portion of the bill. This is what I got in return:

    Quote:
    Well, Alan, the city had plenty of time to respond to this, the city attorney agreed with our interpretation. Thanks for the email though and for taking time to write.

    Heidi Hemmat
    Investigative Reporter

    Do with this what you will :-)
    They probably want a bunch of people to not pay the fines so they can throw even more penalty fines on them and make even more money.
    Formerly MRA #211 - High Precision Racing

    "A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

    --Thomas Jefferson



  22. #22
    Senior Member sprtbkbabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Setting off car alarms
    Posts
    2,238

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    I enjoyed bicycling past a photo radar van on Yosemite south of 225.

    He was just setting up outside of his van.

    I nodded head and said "hey good luck!"

    At least I got a Thanks back
    "Every Crotch is a Rocket" HDAVE

    '09 Suzuki SV650
    '07 Honda CBR 600RR
    '14 1875 watt Conair

    MRA#522


  23. #23
    Member Racz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Granby
    Posts
    168

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    Quote Originally Posted by dirkterrell View Post
    They probably want a bunch of people to not pay the fines so they can throw even more penalty fines on them and make even more money.
    Makes sense and its crazy to think that they care more about revenue then peoples safety in regards to the rear end collision going up.

  24. #24
    Member edj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    181

    Re: Photo Radar has a flaw

    When I received my photoradar ticket... that said I was speeding in a school zone and had the time printed on the photo... I WAS NOT... day after daylight savings and their CLOCK WAS OFF BY AN HOUR! How professional. I called the Boulder office to figure out how to fight it... they made it sound tricky and expensive and I didn't want to drive to Boulder anyway. So upon noticing the bit about them having to serve you in person I took my chances... never got served. That was two years ago.

    I figured it would be worth the extra $25 to get to chat to the officer about how lame the system that replaces them with photoradar only to make them drive about handing out papers.

    Definitely DO NOT PAY until served.

    A number of cities are actually removing photoradar... the contractors make more than the city and there is NO EVIDENCE that photoradar reduces speed. A visible police car reduces speed (even if there is nobody inside).
    Last edited by edj; Fri Apr 29th, 2011 at 10:25 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Photo Radar License Plate Spray Opinions
    By bulldog in forum Non-Bike Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Wed Jan 12th, 2011, 11:09 AM
  2. Might need to calibrate that radar gun ........
    By Nick_Ninja in forum Jokes & Stuff
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008, 02:45 PM
  3. Radar Jammers
    By Speedfix in forum Gear & Accessories
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Sat Aug 9th, 2003, 09:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •