I watched the BBC feed as well. Sooo much better coverage.Originally Posted by Mother Goose
I watched the BBC feed as well. Sooo much better coverage.
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Gecco, I see what your saying. But I watched it again last night and I still think that Marco made him crash. Dani did go in to hot. But Marco came from behind (he's a little behind Dani in your pic) and then cut right in front of him. With Dani going in to hot, and then being forced to brake harder cause Marco cut right in front of him, is why he stood it up. I feel if it was just regular braking in th corner, Dani could have managed that.
Yes, Marco did have the better corner speed. And yes, I understand it's racing, not "hug a friend" day, but Marco has been doing some shady passes and it was only a matter of time before he really screwed someone.
Either way, Marco isn't making friends to fast this year!
Marco out braked (is that a word?) Dani going into the corner, there was room for both to go through. Dani crapped his baby diapers because he didn't think he could make the corner, stood it up and his Marco's hip (if you watch after the hit you can see tire marks on his leathers) and his rear tire making him crash.
It was a regular braking corner, they all are, it's just a matter of who has the balls to go deeper (giggity). In this case, Marco had the bigger balls and would have made the corner at that speed, Dani didn't.
Chadwick
MRA #825
"You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." - Marco Simoncelli
Damn, Wicky drank a big jug of Hatorade this morning. Espanol flavor!
Personally, I think Dani stood it up intentionally in order to take Simo out, but was unsuccessful.
Discuss.
KX65
Dizzer
929 - Yard Sale'd
It's kind of like when Mr. Dennit told Cal Naughton Jr. to take Ricky Bobby out of the race by crashing in to him, but he couldn't, cause Ricky Bobby was his friend. Maybe it's just like Marco and Dani...but different? They made it look like he was trying to crash into him, but he couldn't do it, cause Marco is his friend. Man, that's deep.
Exactly what I was thinking. Spot on.
KX65
Dizzer
929 - Yard Sale'd
I don't think there is an undeserving rider in the field. All of these guys ride motorcycles at a superhuman level.
It's a crappy situation. Making a pass around the outside is a bold move, and Marco is nothing if not bold. He clearly was in front at the apex of the first corner, which in my mind gives him the right of way. That being said it's unlikely that Dani was able to see him there.
It certainly wasn't the best pass ever executed, and it was early in the race. Marco clearly had Dani's number and could have executed elsewhwere, but he made his choice. I'm bummed that the championship is down another rider, especially one of the front runners, the field is already too small.
s
I'm enabling is hair to take over the world! Muuuuhahahahaha?Damn, Wicky drank a big jug of Hatorade this morning. Espanol flavor!
Chadwick
MRA #825
"You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." - Marco Simoncelli
That's for sure, most of them are 5 foot nothing.
Chadwick
MRA #825
"You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." - Marco Simoncelli
HEY!!!!
The GECCO
You begin your riding career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Speaking of which, Pernat is now implying that Pedrosa is too tiny/weak for GP...
http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/co...-material.html
Dude can't catch a friggin' break. Poor sob.
Alright, here is my take:
Whether or not Marco had the "right of way" is debatable and kind of a mute point. The real problem is how Marco passed. That is what made it flat out wrong. Marco literally left Pedrosa with no options but crashing. Pedrosa had zero outs because of Marco's position. Marco would have squeezed him out into the gravel if their lines continued. Pedrosa tried putting on the brakes as fast as he could once he saw what Marco was doing, but again, he couldn't even brake as Marco was there (and the crash was the result).
No matter how you slice it, Marco's maneuver ended with Pedrosa crashing. This is reckless and a disregard for the other racer on the track. While I do not like Jorge a whole lot, he made a good point at a press conference a while back. "This is not just a joke. This is serious and we are out there risking our lives" (paraphrased). People do die in this sport, granted that is a risk they all accept, but its a different story when someone is out there racing with a disregard for everyone else. That doesn't make someone a good racer, it makes them a little bit of a douche.
We have all seen people do stupid things in MotoGP. Almost all of the time, either they both crash out, or the one making the crazy maneuver leaves the other one an out. Marco was in the wrong for being reckless, he didn't crash out, and deserved a ride through penalty. People have been given a ride through for much less.
Personally, I don't think Marco would have finished that corner anyway. I think he was coming in hot and could not hold a correct racing line. Perdorsa out brakes him at the marker, and then Marco just lets off the brakes to over take again just at they enter the corner. I think it was desperate, completely unnecessary, and he wouldn't have been able to hold it anyway. But again... a mute point.
IMO.
Hold on to your butts.
07 GSXR-600
Wow, that guy is pretty harsh.
"In my opinion Dani isn't built for the premier class, and that explains why he hasn't won a championship."
That sums up a lot of people. Most of the MotoGP riders will never win the title. Dani's a hell of a rider and I think he'll only get better with time.
Either way COLINEDWARDSMOTOGPCHAMPION2011!!!!!!!!!
What about when Rossi went up the inside of Stoner, lowsided and crashed Stoner out at the same time? Was it reckless because he made Stoner crash?I think Rossi is a menace and should be fined!!
Chadwick
MRA #825
"You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." - Marco Simoncelli
Which race were you watching? Marco was on the outside, how could he possibly have pushed Pedrosa out into the gravel?
Wicky makes a good point, though - where was all the outrage when Rossi took Stoner out. That was much more blatant than Simoncelli/Pedrosa, if for no other reason than there was no question who was at fault...
The GECCO
You begin your riding career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
by squeezed out, I guess I mean squeezed... in? As in, the inside of the track. As in, there was no more tack left for Pedrosa to go on his right (simonchelle was there), or his left (gravel/track stops).
Rossi has had lots of aggressive moves, no doubt. As far as the move on the inside of Stoner in the wet, yes. It was a little reckless and they both crashed out. Granted weather was also a huge factor in the crash. Rossi even admitted to the mistake and apologized. (<-- sign of a great racer)
But these two are apples to oranges. Marco's move left no possibility of hope for Pedrosa. It's as if Marco was just pretending that Pedrosa was not there and he would just do whatever the F he wanted = Reckless, dangerous, uncalled for. To me, it's a sign of some racing immaturity and carelessness that I would would expect to see in NASCAR, or bumper cars between teens, but not in the elite motorcycle racing of MotoGP.
Now, I dont hate Marco or anything. You can analyze things over and over after the race, but when your in the heat of the moment, things happen. I just think that he definitely did deserve a ride through and it wouldn't hurt for him to say, "It was pretty damn aggressive, sorry."
Last edited by Valguard; Thu May 19th, 2011 at 09:36 PM.
Hold on to your butts.
07 GSXR-600
I still think it was Pedrosa's fault. Pedrosa got good drive out of the previous turn and pulled to the left/inside but couldn't complete the pass on the straight and move back to the right. That gave Simoncelli the better/wider corner entry as far as momentum goes. Using that, Simoncelli broke later and both were turning in when Pedrosa realized he was too fast for the tighter inside line, broke too hard, upset the bike, stood up and hit Simoncelli.
Seriously, take a look at the picture again. They are side-by-side, if anything, Simoncelli is slightly ahead. Both bikes are on essentially identical trajectories, there is loads of room between the two of them, and they're nowhere near the apex of the turn.
Oh, and one more thing - Pedrosa is already out of control!
Last edited by The GECCO; Thu May 19th, 2011 at 10:34 PM.
The GECCO
You begin your riding career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Please name the last time a MotoGP rider (or WSB/WSS/AMA) was given a ride through penalty because of an aggressive riding incident.
The GECCO
You begin your riding career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
I have seen the incident several times, from different angles, on the MotoGP website. I still come to the same conclusion.
Here is a quote from Marco regarding the event:
"...and I found myself on the outside of him and in front on the entry to the corner. I didn’t want to back off, so I left him with a metre between myself and the kerb in order to go in. I saw that it was tight, so I tried to adjust my position. That was when he touched my back wheel and went down.”
Translation:
I didn't want to back off so I went in regardless of other factors. Once I saw that Pedrosa had no room, I tried getting out of the way but it was too late.
Sounds like an exact violation of the rules that are summed up right on the MotoGP website:
In addition, there are some specific rules which direct team members and riders in order to ensure their safety - and the safety of their fellow competitors:
• - Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.
Or more specifically. FIM Grand Prix regulation 1.21.2 - Behaviour During Practice and Race:
Riders must ride in a responsible manner which does not cause danger
to other competitors or participants, either on the track or in the pit-lane.
Any infringement of this rule will be penalised with one of the following
penalties: time penalty – fine – ride through - disqualification - withdrawal
of Championship points - suspension
Here are some quick examples of past 1.21.2 violations that I found. Ride throughs are given when the Race Direction can reach a clear majority on the issue during the race. Race Direction is thorough and take the penalties seriously so it's rare to see them come to a decision during a race (most incidents happen towards the end)... unless it's pretty cut and dry.
During the 125cc race of the Marlboro Grand Prix of Spain on Sunday 5 May 2002, rider Manuel Poggiali (RSM) was judged to have ridden in an irresponsible manner, causing danger to Alex de Angelis (RSM), which is an infraction to Article 1.21.2 of the 2002 FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations. For this reason, the Race Direction, composed of Messrs Claude Danis (FIM), Javier Alonso (Dorna), Paul Butler (IRTA) and Franco Uncini (riders' representative), decided to exclude the rider Manuel Poggiali from the results of the 125cc race. An appeal was lodged to the FIM Stewards, who confirmed the decision of the Race Direction.
The decision is final. The results of the 125cc race have been adapted accordingly.
The Federation Internationale de Motocyclisme published the following press release after the incidents involving Max Biaggi in the Gauloises TT Assen qualifying practice :
- On Friday 24 June, during the MotoGP qualifying practice, Italian rider number 3 Massimiliano Biaggi rode in an irresponsible manner, causing danger to other riders, which is an infraction to article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations. For this infraction, the Race Direction has decided to penalize the rider with a fine of USD 5000.
- During the same session, Massimiliano Biaggi made start practice on the track before the chequered flag (infraction to Art. 1.21.17). For this, the Race Direction has decided to inflict upon the rider a fine of USD 1000.
- After the practice session, Mr Valerio Biaggi, holder of the pass nr I-1485, grabbed the rider nr 33 Marco Melandri by the throat, resulting in scratches. According to Art. 3.3.1.2 (action prejudicial to the interests of the sport), the Race Direction has decided to withdraw the permanent pass of Mr Valerio Biaggi for the rest of the year.
No appeal has been lodged.
The decision of the Race Direction is final.
"On Sunday 5th October, during the MotoGP race, American rider John Hopkins has ridden in an irresponsible manner causing danger to other riders.
"For this infraction to Art. 1.21.2 of the Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations, the Race Direction decided to impose upon him a suspension for the next Grand Prix event (Malaysian Grand Prix, Sepang, 10-12 October 2003).
"This decision of the Race Direction was subsequently confirmed in appeal by the FIM Stewards. The decision of the FIM Stewards is final."
On Sunday 5th October, during the MotoGP race, Japanese rider Makoto Tamada has ridden in an irresponsible manner causing danger to Spanish rider Sete Gibernau.
"For this infraction to Art. 1.21.2 of the Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations, the Race Direction decided to disqualify him from the race results.
"This decision of the Race Direction was subsequently confirmed in appeal by the FIM Stewards. The decision of the FIM Stewards is final."
One of my favs:
Whilst deciding that reigning 250cc world champion Marco Simoncelli 'rode in an irresponsible manner, causing danger to Alvaro Bautista' in Sunday's Italian Grand Prix at Mugello, the Gilera rider has been allowed to keep his second place finish.
Despite blasting to a strong early lead in the wet conditions, Simoncelli was caught and passed by world championship leader Bautista on lap 9 of the 21 lap race.
Two laps later Simoncelli attempted an optimistic re-pass which resulted in contact with the side of the Aspar Aprilia rider, pushing them both off the track. Race Direction immediately announced that it would investigate the incident.
The pair rejoined the race in second (Simoncelli) and third (Bautista), where they ultimately finished after Mattia Pasini sensationally thwarted Simoncelli's last lap attack.
The full verdict by Race Direction can be seen below:
“On Sunday 31st May, during the 250cc race, rider Marco Simoncelli (ITA) rode in an irresponsible manner, causing danger to rider Alvaro Bautista (SPA), which is an infringement to the Art. 1.21.2 of the 2009 FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations. The Race Direction has decided to penalize rider Marco Simoncelli with a warning as to his future conduct, which means any further incident of the same nature this year may result in a suspension and to impose him a fine of USD 5,000
“No appeal has been lodged.”
Coincidence that Marco has such a history? I think not.
I rest my case.
Hold on to your butts.
07 GSXR-600
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