Originally Posted by Zach929rr
I have never done any of the above. I always follow all laws everyday!!!
I have never done any of the above. I always follow all laws everyday!!!
2015 R1200GS
03 & 11 XR-50 pit bike
07 & 08 DRZ 400SM
06 FJR 1300
70 SL 350
75 MT 250
It's possible to have faith in the foundations but not the inhabitants.
Choosing one's battles isn't giving up. If we could make the D.L. testing requirements along the same lines as what is required to get an international license I'd be willing to reconsider my opinion on lane sharing. Until american drivers are educated better/screened more heavily, I think the risks are raised way beyond the elevated level we already accept daily.
Last edited by cptschlongenheimer; Thu Jun 23rd, 2011 at 11:14 AM.
89 EX500 RIP
06 R6S RIP
03 R6
Show me the savvy bikers! I need them to join ABATE. We have tried to pass GOOD common sense laws to no avail....and trust me, those of us that have pursued some of these laws know how to play the game. Problem is...not enough of us are willing to participate. 5 or 6 people showing up to hearings for bills isn't going to cut it. Yea we can all talk a good game, but when it comes to getting off our a**** to actually do something about it, it doesn't happen. I see it every day with our membership. Yea that's a good idea...let's do it. Then when you say are you going to help us?....well I can't I have to work that day...or I'm too busy. Americans are way to complacent.
Terry
Good points, Terry.
I'm already an AMA member for many of the same reasons.
I'll join up.
89 EX500 RIP
06 R6S RIP
03 R6
not that I'm at all savvy...
89 EX500 RIP
06 R6S RIP
03 R6
Yeah! Exactly what I was thinking on my bike ride. In my experience, the most useless person at work is in charge of safety. Make sure nothing gets done. No one should have built the Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge or the Transcontinental railroad. You can't tell me that filtering through traffic at 20 mph when the cages are only going 5 to 10 is so dangerous that we can't even consider it. Come on, this is the Colorado Sportbike Club, most of the bikes we ride will do 140 or better and those of you that tell me you've NEVER done that are lying. If you ride a supermoto or dual sport, you are even more maneuverable in traffic and have even more reason to support legal lane sharing. Traffic laws are for the most part defining an illegal act because someone decided it was illegal, not an act that is morally wrong. It isn't morally wrong to get through traffic on a M/C just because the cages can't.
Illegitimi non carborundum
'03 Honda vtr1000f Super Hawk
'07 Honda XR650L
Erm, the people is THE foundation of this country. Currently that foundation is rotten... There is but one way to change it....
Yes, technically it is, but I understand what you mean and do the same. Being smart enough to survive and fight another is smarter than fighting foolishly and becoming ineffective by dying, but conflicts always need an instigator, and currently, we have one, so it's merely a matter of time for organization to take place and a proper execution planned.
eh, hem, and what is going to cause this to happen? We legalize lane splitting and the death rate goes up, maybe something else could change to make it safe.. OK, so we don't legalize lane splitting, but rather focus on better education and more stringent requirements on obtaining and keeping a license, and the general populace becomes safe enough on the roads for lane splitting to safer... This applies to any change. Identify the goal, design a plan, and execute. No matter which way around, as long as the goal isn't forgotten, with enough perseverance, it will be reached. LOL, I know I'm dreaming and being a douche here, and I don't mean to attack you personally, but more so the apathetic/non-willing attitude which you present. If we, in the CSC can't agree on something, how can we agree to work on something much greater than ourselves? I'm saying the same as this:
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VV
^^^^
Good on ya!I think more people need to take your lead.
Yes, I know you're the same person as I replied to above. I do not see my responses as inconsistent.
Respect and truth trump all!
I don't get lost. I explore.
This is no thread for realism...
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
Spooph, I don't take it as a personal attack. This is democratic debate as our forefathers could have scarcely dreamed about. No hard feelings, bro.
I contest the perception that I'm apathetic though. I chime in on these topics because of my desire to improve our society. I think that until we create a culture that celebrates personal responsibility and mutual and self respect, our best efforts are aimed at keeping those who don't, off our roadways.
89 EX500 RIP
06 R6S RIP
03 R6
You, sir, are correct.
My mistake.
89 EX500 RIP
06 R6S RIP
03 R6
No worries, just keep the dreaming to a minimum teh interwebz is srs bizness.You, sir, are correct.
My mistake.
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
This IS a free a country. In the US, you don't require permission saying, "you're allowed" to do something. We have laws that restrict your freedoms and for clarification, some laws will specify what you are allowed to do or to prevent law enforcement from restricting your rights.
1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html
1999 DR650SE
So you're free to lane split? Go try it and tell me the results when a cop sees you doing it...
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
No, as I recall, CO law specifies that sharing a lane with another vehicle is illegal. Don't remember the exact verbiage but something to the effect that sharing with another bike with the driver's consent IS legal.
My point is, if there isn't a law forbiding an action or behavior, then you ARE legal because this is a free country. You don't need permission to live your life here.
1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html
1999 DR650SE
unfortunately, it's to the point now where we have so many laws that some behavior of yours is bound to offend the sensibilities of another being and fall under some illegality.
So the LEO writes you up for "reckless driving" as an example of an all encompassing catch all "law" and the reason we start needing our rights spelled out in the law books. It's to the point where, if the law doesn't specifically give you permission, you'll be in front of a judge defending your rights and actions.
1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html
1999 DR650SE
Only in the vaguest sense are you "free" in any country, it's the nature of communal living and social contracts.
If you were to list every single restriction on the national, state and local levels, I think you'd be surprised at just what's still permitted and what isn't.
But, yes, in theory you can do anything not expressly or implicitly prohibited, however when you're talking about actions on the road that's a pretty controlled/regulated/restricted sphere of activities.
Remember driving is a privilege, not a right, and you're only free to do it as long as you abide by the rules...which are restrictions. Restrictions regulate everything from what can be on the road legally, to how you must operate the vehicle, to who has right of way and every other tiny thing that most of us probably aren't fully aware of since we can't memorize every single law that probably does affect us even without our knowing about it.
And the action that this thread's about is clearly illegal/not free to participate in...so I kinda miss your point about not needing permission, when, clearly, you do need permission for most things riding/driving related...
Which is why I think vague talk of "freedoms" is pointless in the abstract, as it's really only in the particular that it becomes relevant or important...
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
Right, exactly my point--while we may have the theoretical "right" to not be interfered with, it's all interpretation, and typically it'll now be interpreted *against* you in any way possible.
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
the same type of thing happens often with gun rights. Many states do not have laws forbidding, or protecting, open carry. So people open carry, scare the sheep, get a disturbing the peace citation, and go to court.
But at the end of the day, it is still a free country and if you aren't willing to fight for your rights and stand up for them from time to time - then you better not include yourself in the crowd that bitches when they're gone. Which also goes to Abate's point - people need to show up and be active in legislation instead of watching it on the 10pm news.
Last edited by TinkerinWstuff; Thu Jun 23rd, 2011 at 03:14 PM.
1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html
1999 DR650SE
What color shirt do I need to wear while riding? The law doesn't say that I can wear a black leather coat instead of a high visibility yellow jacket.
So by your logic and statement at the beginning of this thread: The law doesn't say I can wear a black jacket and thus it's illegal.
I don't need permission to wear what I want - until someone passes a law to the contrary. And MY point is, as a society we need to quit looking to the law for permission or we'll have no freedom.
If a state does not have a helmet law, does that make helmets illegal or not wearing them illegal.
man, I wish someone would come tell me how to live!
Last edited by TinkerinWstuff; Thu Jun 23rd, 2011 at 03:26 PM. Reason: more smart ass comments to spur the debate
1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html
1999 DR650SE
It is similar to gun rights, but gun ownership at least has it's own proviso in the 2nd Amendment, so it has more ability to defend itself.
As we've seen in everything from motorcycle rights to lawsuits by the RIAA to Issue 'X' of your choice, in most areas unless it has an Amendment to rely upon, it's probably up for grabs.
As to fighting for your rights...it's often a case where they're gone before you can do anything about it, and trying to get a "right" back after it's gone is far, far harder than defending it while it's still in effect.
But, again, that's how it all goes--not every piece of legislation is passed before every citizen's eyes to see before it goes into effect, so it's often too little too late--despite whatever fight you may want to put up...
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
So that's "Freedom" to you, eh? You can pick your shirt and wear your Wonder Woman underoos and bask in it?
Then, I guess by your weak definition you are FREE to do anything you want--as long as it's minor, inconsequential, and of no real importance to anything.
Bravo for reducing the argument over rights/freedoms to something so trivial.
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
The citizens or those voting on them....
1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html
1999 DR650SE
Don't try to turn this argument around on me - you are the one who said that if an action isn't specified in law, then it's illegal. I'm only trying to simplify the absurdity of that statement into terms you can understand while ruffling your feathers.
1998 VFR800 Interceptor - resurrected and custom tail http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gener...98-vfr800.html
1999 DR650SE
Both, really. Few of our politicians read the entire Patriot Act, fewer read anything else they're not actively pushing--and if they don't then it doesn't matter if we do or not since we're not the ones with the power to do anything about any of it (except write protest letters to our congressmen after it's all too late--and they don't care anyway unless the letter is tied to a large campaign contribution).
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
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