The Deckers Route~Experienced Riders Discussion

[TFOGGuys]

The most aggression I'll show on the street (in the canyons) is 70x70=49%. This means 70% of perceived available traction, times 70% of MY ability. Usually this translates as brisk cornering speeds, with relaxation on the straights. In Golden Gate, I rarely exceed 60 mph, but I might run pretty close to that in some of the corners with good visibility. I can recall a couple of occasions when I had the footpegs drag in Coal Creek on the west switchbacks, but that was at about 25 mph. I guess it all boils down to riding within yourself, as so many others have said.

126/67 presents a lot of challenges for the riders, especially after the Buffalo Creek and Hayman fires, as road conditions can change without warning (sand, washouts, potholes). I really enjoy that road, but rarely ride it any more, as it has become very busy and that pushed the danger:fun ratio in the wrong direction.

[duelist13]

I have spoken with residents of that piece of road who really hate sportbikes tearing it up, some have intimated that they know people who intentionally spread gravel along the route.

I'll intimate I just found an accessory to manslaughter

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I'll intimate I just found an accessory to manslaughter

Yup, at the very least. Since it was deliberate, with malice of forethought, I'd say murder 1.

[mtnairlover]

It's a brain thing when all else is equal...good and familiar road, experienced rider, sound body functions, mechanically sound machine, no obstacles on the road, etc.

I can't say for certain that that's what happens to everyone, but I have heard this particular statement more than once and from more than one rider..."I'm just not feeling it today."

The other thing that comes to mind is this sort of "moral compass" for lack of a better phrase. It's the idea that when we say, "I'm just not feeling it today," we actually take heed and take our riding down a notch or two.

Problem is...some of us would rather not say anything and just keep riding along like everyone else.

Here's a for instance: on the ride I took yesterday (over 700 miles round-trip), I was following BC14 who rides very well and very fast. It was early morning and in the mountains, so it was not exactly warm. As the morning wore on and the elevations got higher, my muscles started to shiver. As they continued to shiver, it got harder and harder to concentrate on my riding and leaning into the corners. I wanted to ride with the leader, but my legs were aching and my brain was telling me, "There is no way I am going to get your legs to do any more than what I'm giving them! Take it down a notch or two, or you're going into a ditch! I cannot help you concentrate on the road at this speed with this much ache!"

Did I admit to everything that was going on in my head? Not really, but I did end up riding more slowly and taking it easier until my legs finally warmed up.

Anyway, it's not about the legs and it's not about how I ride, but rather what a lot of us riders say to ourselves when we are riding with a group of friends. And unfortunately, not all of us listen to what our brains are telling us.

Lastly, there is the off chance that once in a blue moon, someone crashes because of a medical emergency...heart attack, brain aneurism, blurred vision, come to mind.

[VFR]

The variable is always the rider..Week in week out the road stays the same unless it is altered. Week in week out riders of different skill, mind set, and awareness of ability will hit that road that never changes.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The variable is always the rider..Week in week out the road stays the same unless it is altered. Week in week out riders of different skill, mind set, and awareness of ability will hit that road that never changes.

Huh??? The road can change minute by minute with rain, runoff, a truck puking it's transmission or engine, or leaking coolant. A truck towing a trailer can (and does) cut the corner too tight dropping a few wheels off into the dirt and dragging tons of dirt and sand back onto the road. 10deg difference between runs can mean the difference between tar snakes that are just a little spooky to flat slippery. The early morning dew coating the road that evaporates before 10AM. Man, there's a million ways the road can change instantly. Only the geometry of the road itself doesn't change......until you have a flash flood and then a 50' stretch can just disappear with no warning in the immediate area (this happened all the time where I lived in SoCal on Garlock road). The road is ALWAYS alive, you just have to be sensitive enough to feel it's pulse (and that of your bike). I'd re-think that there assertion.

[VFR]

Thats were the unless it's altered part comes in... The rod doesn't grow older and wiser, it doesn't have an emotion to manipulate it's shape. Things change it's appearance and reliability but it realistically stays the same. If I ride that road and you ride it Monkey only outside things can effect it..You ride no sand/gravel I ride it's there. But if you and I ride that road on the same day with the same circumstances the difference will be skill level, how we are feeling that day, focus, and knowledge of the road. That road will not change because I am coming down it instead of you...But all the the rider I am and the rider you are will make the difference on reaction to situations, how fast through a corner and blah blah blah. On days we lost riders on certain roads it is arguable to say they were not the first to go down that road that day. So the variable has to be the rider

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Thats were the unless it's altered part comes in... The rod doesn't grow older and wiser, it doesn't have an emotion to manipulate it's shape. Things change it's appearance and reliability but it realistically stays the same. If I ride that road and you ride it Monkey only outside things can effect it..You ride no sand/gravel I ride it's there. But if you and I ride that road on the same day with the same circumstances the difference will be skill level, how we are feeling that day, focus, and knowledge of the road. That road will not change because I am coming down it instead of you...But all the the rider I am and the rider you are will make the difference on reaction to situations, how fast through a corner and blah blah blah. On days we lost riders on certain roads it is arguable to say they were not the first to go down that road that day. So the variable has to be the rider

Yeah, but that's what I mean about it being alive. It, as do we, reacts to temperature, the seasons, the people that drive on it (dragging dirt with them). So, even if you are very familiar with the road, it's always constantly changing due to all those things I mentioned. Those that are familiar with a road can predict what corners tend to get gravel dragged onto them, where the runoff is going to be, where livestock may be an issue, where the tar strips get bad in the hot midday sun, etc.. To me, every road really IS alive in it's own way. The rider must be able to react to all these changes that may ocur within mere minutes of either of us traveling it.

[VFR]

But..If the situation is a non attentive driver, be bike or car caused the rider to react in a way that caused a bad reaction (run wide) then the variable could change..riding when its busy compared to empty can come into play, or with someone causing you (no matter the person) to have to make a quick decision or running into them all together

[VFR]

I agree with you on the road being alive depending on time of day, year, animals, all the things you mentioned.

[Clovis]

Is it just me? Or is it the longer you've been riding the fewer stupid chances you take?

I've only been riding for 4 years now but the way that I ride today compared to the first year are totally different.

In year 1 I rode faster then today and took stupid chances - then I crashed with the only real injury being to my ego. A few other close calls along the way served as a reality check.

Now a days I'm pretty calm and content to be sweeping in the back when I'm with a group. I also just turned 30 a couple weeks ago.

I think there are a few factors that play into why people ride beyond their limits.

1) As Bueller mentioned. Modern sport bikes extend a rider's actual ability.
2) Herd mentality. I like riding with groups as much as anyone else but they can be deadly. You don't want to be "last" so you push yourself to keep up. You also tend to do more show boating. I see guys pop wheelies in traffic when they're in a group a lot more often then solo.
3) Delusions of grandeur. In reality we're all pretty much the same but everybody likes to think they're this unique snow flake. How many times have you said "Yeah, but that won't happen to me"?

A person will push the limit dozens, maybe even hundreds of times and get away with it. But sooner or later, no matter how small the probability, anything that can happen, eventually will given enough time.

On any given day that you are speeding you have a less then 1% chance of getting a speeding ticket. How many speeding tickets have you gotten?

-Clov

[Swift]

Horsepower Hill takes it up a notch cause you can hit triple digit speeds no problem.

Unless you have an old BMW like me that looks like an old man with hair growing out of his ears.

[GixxerCarrie]

Is it just me? Or is it the longer you've been riding the fewer stupid chances you take?

I've only been riding for 4 years now but the way that I ride today compared to the first year are totally different.

In year 1 I rode faster then today and took stupid chances - then I crashed with the only real injury being to my ego. A few other close calls along the way served as a reality check.

Now a days I'm pretty calm and content to be sweeping in the back when I'm with a group. I also just turned 30 a couple weeks ago.

I think there are a few factors that play into why people ride beyond their limits.

1) As Bueller mentioned. Modern sport bikes extend a rider's actual ability.
2) Herd mentality. I like riding with groups as much as anyone else but they can be deadly. You don't want to be "last" so you push yourself to keep up. You also tend to do more show boating. I see guys pop wheelies in traffic when they're in a group a lot more often then solo.
3) Delusions of grandeur. In reality we're all pretty much the same but everybody likes to think they're this unique snow flake. How many times have you said "Yeah, but that won't happen to me"?

A person will push the limit dozens, maybe even hundreds of times and get away with it. But sooner or later, no matter how small the probability, anything that can happen, eventually will given enough time.

On any given day that you are speeding you have a less then 1% chance of getting a speeding ticket. How many speeding tickets have you gotten?

-Clov

[VFR]

Clovis, grand observations dude.

My change of riding dangerously came on 29 January 2004...When my little girl was born

My wife knows if I go out on the bike I went out doing something I love, my oldest son and daughter they aspire to ride once they are of age and are both renegades also. But the innocence of that 7 year old, man I start thinking I need to start doing it smarter for her and give her the opportunity to grow up aspired to ride. Not growing up scared of them because I chose to be dangerous. Stuff happens and no one is promised tomorrow, I just have to do what I can to help myself get there.

[mtnairlover]

Stuff happens and no one is promised tomorrow, I just have to do what I can to help myself get there.

^this

[BC14]

MTNAIRLOVER said:


The other thing that comes to mind is this sort of "moral compass" for lack of a better phrase. It's the idea that when we say, "I'm just not feeling it today," we actually take heed and take our riding down a notch or two. Totally agree with that one. I've hit deckers and other similarly spirited routes on different days with vastly different feelings about my riding ability, bike condition, how the road feels, etc.

Problem is...some of us would rather not say anything and just keep riding along like everyone else. I'm not ashamed to mention if there is an "issue" keeping me "slow" sometimes, but I'm sure some people, especially if they are around some new people, won't pipe up and say anything.

Here's a for instance: on the ride I took yesterday (over 700 miles round-trip), I was following BC14 who rides very well and very fast. It was early morning and in the mountains, so it was not exactly warm. As the morning wore on and the elevations got higher, my muscles started to shiver. As they continued to shiver, it got harder and harder to concentrate on my riding and leaning into the corners. I wanted to ride with the leader, but my legs were aching and my brain was telling me, "There is no way I am going to get your legs to do any more than what I'm giving them! Take it down a notch or two, or you're going into a ditch! I cannot help you concentrate on the road at this speed with this much ache!" I was a bit chilly too, but figured it was gonna warm up, but never did. I do tend to concentrate too much on my body temp(cold) than my riding sometimes and I've had some issues because of it.

Did I admit to everything that was going on in my head? Not really, but I did end up riding more slowly and taking it easier until my legs finally warmed up.

Anyway, it's not about the legs and it's not about how I ride, but rather what a lot of us riders say to ourselves when we are riding with a group of friends. And unfortunately, not all of us listen to what our brains are telling us.

Lastly, there is the off chance that once in a blue moon, someone crashes because of a medical emergency...heart attack, brain aneurism, blurred vision, come to mind. One can never prepare for the unexpected, just gotta take each day as it comes, and do your best to make it to the next.

[fiveninerzero]

Deckers sucks IMO. My personal technique is just to stay away from it. Since I started this technique, I haven't wrecked on that road.The twisties aren't that great IME and there are many other roads that I can ride that are twistier and have less foreign objects and fugged up pavement. These are my opinions so flame on.

[BC14]

Deckers sucks IMO. My personal technique is just to stay away from it. Since I started this technique, I haven't wrecked on that road.The twisties aren't that great IME and there are many other roads that I can ride that are twistier and have less foreign objects and fugged up pavement. These are my opinions so flame on.

[Matty]

The most aggression I'll show on the street (in the canyons) is 70x70=49%. This means 70% of perceived available traction, times 70% of MY ability. Usually this translates as brisk cornering speeds, with relaxation on the straights.

[Drift]

The most aggression I'll show on the street (in the canyons) is 70x70=49%. This means 70% of perceived available traction, times 70% of MY ability. Usually this translates as brisk cornering speeds, with relaxation on the straights.

I have not heard this formula before...but I like it! +1

[FZRguy]

Try that road, or any local canyon, on a week day early afternoon and avoid weekends and holidays.

Ride the “Pace” as explained in Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch (posted on the CSC home page).

Ride alone or with one or two trusted riding buddies.

[R1NORI]

Some footage from Deckers four years ago this weekend - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdt5rdKyuiw

Jim, you and I have ridden deckers for years. Simply because it IS one of the best rides in Colorado. We have seen it all over the years. Yet we have never had any problems what so ever.
What do you suppose the difference is?
Bash too!

[Frankie675]

I have a buddy that lives in Pine and every time I stop in he tells us of another motorcycle crash.

If you ride like you're at the track....well there's your problem - You're not at the track!
Ride like you're on the road. Don't trust anyone, any turn, any road, any weather, and dress for the worst case scenario.

[Clovis]

Nice 2007 video.

In 2007 the road was recently repaved and in excellent condition. The last few times I've been up through Deckers it has been in the WRX. Mrs. Clovis and I like to go up to Beau Jo's in Evergreen on a weekend afternoon. Last time we went, which was about a month ago we talked about how the road has really fallen to shit.

Between the tar snakes, pot holes, debris on the road, it's just not the same road it was in 2007. It's really a shame because Deckers was my first true love on a bike.

I guess budget concerns will do that. If I come across a Muni bond to repave Hwy 67 you guys will be the first ones I'm calling!

-Clovis