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Thread: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

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    Senior Member JustSomeDude's Avatar
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    Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?


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    Senior Member JustSomeDude's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Weird, the "Rossi Called Gresini" article has already been pulled from the Cycle News website...

    http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/ro...alled-gresini/

    Maybe it was all BS?

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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    I hope not, it seems he really needs to get off the ducati, and on to something that he can win on. Watching him at laguna seca on that thing was painful.

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    Jenny's Pet Monkey Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    It'd be a major coup for Honda if this is true.
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Senior Member longrider's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    If this is true and Rossi starts winning again it will give Ducati such a black eye it will be interesting to see what it does to sales. This is reminding me of when Jeremy McGrath switched to Suzuki and started losing, Suzuki couldn't sell a motocross bike for years

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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    YIKES, pretty bold statements. I'll believe it when I see it. We all know how Rossi likes to stir shit up and then let it stew and make people think.

    I'd hate to see him leave Ducati though. I had high hopes, especially if they ditch the carbon frame and revert back to the trellis with some flex in it.
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by longrider View Post
    If this is true and Rossi starts winning again it will give Ducati such a black eye it will be interesting to see what it does to sales. This is reminding me of when Jeremy McGrath switched to Suzuki and started losing, Suzuki couldn't sell a motocross bike for years
    Motocross is way different, few sportbike buyers watch or care about racing, and fewer still allow it to influence their buying. Most who do follow GP know that there's as much in common with their bike and a GP bike as there is between them and Rossi himself...

    In other words, sales won't be affected. Plus, in the Suzuki case, the bike was getting terrible reviews in all the magazines and that's what drives or hurts sales the most.
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    I never understood why everyone thought that rossi on a duc would suddenly make it the #1 bike. Would love to see him on the yamaha again, or, at least SOMETHING that would make him competitive
    #703

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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecknojoe View Post
    I never understood why everyone thought that rossi on a duc would suddenly make it the #1 bike. Would love to see him on the yamaha again, or, at least SOMETHING that would make him competitive
    He was dominant on the Honda before he moved off of it to prove it wasn't the bike that made him great.
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    We all know he's great, but you can't win a horse race on a donkey no matter who you are
    #703

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    Jenny's Pet Monkey Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecknojoe View Post
    We all know he's great, but you can't win a horse race on a donkey no matter who you are
    Rossi won on the Yamaha when it wasn't truly competitive with the Honda, but the Ducati does seem unwinnable.
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Senior Member AOK303's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Rossi won on the Yamaha when it wasn't truly competitive with the Honda, but the Ducati does seem unwinnable.
    Agreed
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    Gold Member salsashark's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Ahh silly season... Such fun.
    Do not put off living the life you dream of. Next year may never come. If we are always waiting for something to change...
    Retirement, the kids to leave home, the weather or the economy, that's not living. That's waiting!
    Waiting will only leaves us with unrealized dreams and empty wishes.

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    Senior Member longrider's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Motocross is way different, few sportbike buyers watch or care about racing, and fewer still allow it to influence their buying. Most who do follow GP know that there's as much in common with their bike and a GP bike as there is between them and Rossi himself...

    In other words, sales won't be affected. Plus, in the Suzuki case, the bike was getting terrible reviews in all the magazines and that's what drives or hurts sales the most.
    I agree that motocross is different both for the reasons you mentioned plus the fact that in motocross you are buying a race bike while a sportbike is a street bike that you can also race, however I disagree that it will have no effect on sales. Little effect yes but not no effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Rossi won on the Yamaha when it wasn't truly competitive with the Honda, but the Ducati does seem unwinnable.
    This I agree on

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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    I thought Rossi understood that the bike needed development.

    Back when he went from Honda to Yamaha, on the 990cc bikes without traction control, he could ride a less competitive Yami & still win. Then he helped develop the M1 into the best bike on the grid.

    Now though, on the 800's, the Honda's & Yami's are so well developed, there are so many electronics, & the riders of them are so talented...it's gonna take a few seasons before Rossi & Jeremy Burgess can get the bike developed.

    I think he's just fucking with everyone...again! lol
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    Senior Member JustSomeDude's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Titus View Post
    ...it's gonna take a few seasons before Rossi & Jeremy Burgess can get the bike developed.
    I think the issue - and Rossi is likely aware of this fact - is that he doesn't have "a few seasons" left in his career to spare for bike development. I'm sure he's still eyeing some of those remaining Agostini records, and knowing he's past his "prime" from a racing standpoint... he needs/wants to be competitive for the time he has left.

    That's the only reason I give credence to this story. It fits with the Rossi career timeline. Ducati just doesn't give him the chance to win now.

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    Senior Member JustSomeDude's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?


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    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecknojoe View Post
    I never understood why everyone thought that rossi on a duc would suddenly make it the #1 bike. Would love to see him on the yamaha again, or, at least SOMETHING that would make him competitive
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSomeDude View Post
    Guess it'd make sense that he's just doing this to force his changes on Ducati, but, fwiw, I'd like to see him back on a Honda before he's too old to win.
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Easily distracted by shiny objects and bouncy things jplracing's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSomeDude View Post
    I think the issue - and Rossi is likely aware of this fact - is that he doesn't have "a few seasons" left in his career to spare for bike development. I'm sure he's still eyeing some of those remaining Agostini records, and knowing he's past his "prime" from a racing standpoint... he needs/wants to be competitive for the time he has left.

    That's the only reason I give credence to this story. It fits with the Rossi career timeline. Ducati just doesn't give him the chance to win now.
    The other point that is being missed is that Ducati is a relatively small manufacture compared to HRC/Yamaha. When Rossi (or any other rider for that matter) needs a change HRC/Yamaha have a team of people that can effectively make that change (ie read new chassis) in a short time line. Ducati just doesn't have the size or funds to employ engineers to research and build new chassis in a matter of a few weeks. As a result the HRC/Yamaha teams have a big advantage. I also believe that this is the same problem that Suzuki and Kawi have struggled with for years

    In numerous interviews Rossi has stated he has the motor (top speed and acceleration) to win, however he can't get "feeling" out of the bike, especially mid corner. This would seem that the motor Ducati has is strong, but they simply can't get the chassis right.

    If this isn't just some silly season rumor and Rossi is looking to make a change for 2012, I think he will be looking to be back on a Honda or Yamaha for the simple fact that he will have a R&D budget behind him and can adapt the bike to his abilities faster than Ducati/Suzuki/Kawi

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    Jenny's Pet Monkey Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Unasked questions--Would Honda take him back given how he left, and will Ducati let him out of his contract early?
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Easily distracted by shiny objects and bouncy things jplracing's Avatar
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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Unasked questions--Would Honda take him back given how he left, and will Ducati let him out of his contract early?

    I thought he only signed a 1 year deal with Ducati...I could be wrong???

    In terms of Honda I believe Stoner and Pedrosa are or will be signed for 2012. Dovizioso is rumored to be out to make way for Simoncelli.

    I don't see HRC taking him back, however a satellite team may and it would allow HRC to save face while getting him back on a Honda


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    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    I actually think that the Ducati problem has it's root cause as the engine.

    Carbon Fiber is a superior building material for chassis design as it allows engineers to add flex where it's wanted and take it away where it's not. This kind of flexibility in design is a tremendous advantage given you have the engineering resources to exploit it. A good example is bicycles. The "which material is superior" debate only lasted a very short time. Every bicycle in the tour de france this year was made of carbon fiber. While not in the same quantities, the forces at play are significantly similar between bicycles and motorcycles, so it really is just a matter of time before all of the world level bikes are using carbon as a major structural component in the frame.

    I think the root cause of the Ducati issue IS the engine, specifically the engine configuration. I'm not sure if the goal was to uphold tradition with the 90 degree "L" in the four cylinder design or if it was to achieve perfect primary balance, but the result is an extremely long engine compared to the others in Moto GP. The length of the engine reduces placement options in the chassis, as it can only be placed so far forward before the front cylinder head hits the front tire. Not being able to move one of the heaviest pieces of the motorcycle in the chassis leaves Ducati with one less option for chassis / handling tuning than the other makes that either have narrow angle v-twins (honda) or inline engines (yamaha).

    Perfect primary balance means that Ducati isn't wasting power by spinnning a balance shaft, like the others have to. This likely means that the Ducati is delivering more power to the rear wheel than the others, or at least being able to develop that power faster as there is less rotating mass in the engine to overcome during acceleration.

    Ultimately I think that Ducati will have to abandon the 90 degree configuration in order to have more flexibility in engine placement. Once they get that sorted I think they will be able to generate the front end feel that both Valentino and Nicky are looking for.

    Interestingly they are addressing this issue with their new superbike, the Superquadrata. In it they say that they are retaining the 90 degree configuration, but rotating it rearward so that the front cylinder points upward more than forward in the interest of being able to move the engine further forward in the chassis. Ultimately I don't think this solution would be enough in the Moto GP world, where the bikes are becoming more and more compact, the engine will have to do the same.

    -rybo

    p.s. I'm not an engineer, I just play one on the CSC

  24. #24

    Re: Rossi to HONDA in 2012?!? WTF!?

    People need to give Nicky Hayden a LOT more credit, Rossi dominated on the Honda and Yamaha, and now Nicky beats him on the same bike a lot of the time. Ducati built all this flexibity into their carbon chassis, but now admit they dont have the resources to be able to change/redesign it fast enough.....
    It is what it is

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