Global Banks Ruling the World...

[dirkterrell]

What exactly does Occupy Wall Street want?

We want more money. Yeah, more money!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6fp95uGfM

Dirk, come on man, don't tell me you actually believe this shit?

Which shit is that? Not most of what I saw in your thread on that group. That groups like Goldman rigged the system and brought the economy to its knees, with politicians on both sides of the aisle complicit in it? You're damned right I do. It's well documented that financial firms knew exactly that they were packaging utter crap as AAA-rated investments.

I do not believe in most of the crap that the left spouts about income redistribution, tax the rich, etc. but what has happened in the financial industry and government "regulation" therein has been a fraud perpetrated on the American people, and it is only now beginning to be understood.

[Clovis]

Oh, okay.

I was referring to the 2nd paragraph.

Which shit is that? Not most of what I saw in your thread on that group. That groups like Goldman rigged the system and brought the economy to its knees, with politicians on both sides of the aisle complicit in it? You're damned right I do. It's well documented that financial firms knew exactly that they were packaging utter crap as AAA-rated investments.


I do not believe in most of the crap that the left spouts about income redistribution, tax the rich, etc. but what has happened in the financial industry and government "regulation" therein has been a fraud perpetrated on the American people, and it is only now beginning to be understood.

[Devaclis]

/holyshitIjusterasedanentirerantbecausethismakesmes omad.

[Snowman]

/holyshitIjusterasedanentirerantbecausethismakesmes omad.

Then let me give you one fact that will make you even madder..

General Electric the 6th largest firm in the U.S as well as the 14th most profitable paid nothing in federal taxes for the year 2010...

[dirkterrell]

Read this:

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=195434

That's the kind of person we need to be sending to Washington.

[Snowman]

Read this:

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=195434

That's the kind of person we need to be sending to Washington.

So according to this the answer to solve this entire mess is for each of use to use cash to pay for everything.

Use little or no credit at all and all those money making schemes that got us into this mess will go away in time.

Sounds like a plan.

I've been told over and over that paying off my house is a bad choice because I would lose the tax breaks I get for owning it. However, when I do the simple math I would save far more from the interest I wouldn't have to pay than I ever would from the tax break.

And given how volatile my 401K is, I can't think of a better reason not to empty it to pay off my house even with the penalties. Strange that you can pull 401K money out to buy a house and not get penalized but to pay off a house you do.

[ian22]

I'm not sure why exactly we are surprised at this? Banks and wealthy people/families/organizations have essentially ruled the world for ages. Governments need powerful (wealthy) banks and families to finance things like wars. This really isn't anything new. The US federal reserve is a good example of this...and really, no one is hiding it - the general public simply doesn't care.

[Ghost]

the general public simply doesn't care.

Or, they care, but lacking the power/influence/control that the wealthy enjoy, they can't do anything about any of it...it's why nobility lived in castles and peasants lived in shit...

[ian22]

An excellent point.

[Clovis]

I've been told over and over that paying off my house is a bad choice because I would lose the tax breaks I get for owning it. However, when I do the simple math I would save far more from the interest I wouldn't have to pay than I ever would from the tax break.

That's right. The way I explain the concept to people is would you pay $22,000 in interest to avoid paying $3,000 in taxes?

[rforsythe]

Interest vs taxes also isn't the only consideration, but comparing the two you'll certainly save more in the long run getting rid of what you owe the bank.

[Clovis]

There's a lot of factors to consider. What is your current interest rate versus what can you expect to gain in an investment portfolio.

On one hand withdrawing the money from a 401k subjects you to a 10% early withdraw penalty (assuming you're under 59.5 years old) and the withdrawn amount is also taxed as income. So if you pulled out $50,000, that $50,000 is treated as if you made $50,000 extra in the year and taxed (in addition to the 10% penalty).

Additionally the money withdrawn then loses its ability to grow. I know the market is extremely volatile right now but it's not always going to be this way.

However, on the flip side, depending on how much of a mortgage you're paying off and the payment it is eliminating, you could free up that money for re-investment back into your 401k / IRA / Investment accounts. I saw this idea a lot in the mortgage industry (where people could do a cash-out refinance of their home, pay off all debts and free upwards of $2,000 a month by eliminating those payments). The plan was to use these savings to pay down the mortgage faster or max out retirement contributions but when push comes to shove a lot of people ended up spending the money on something else, like a new car or boat.

[Ghost]

Not quite banking, but close enough/related

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...131151510.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...145429009.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...GFnZQ--;_ylv=3

http://news.yahoo.com/reid-even-tea-...171606362.html

[cptschlongenheimer]

Wow. Busy day...

Clovis,
To answer your question:
I am not advocating socialism. I don't want to support deadbeats with my tax revenues any more than you do. Twice now, I've worked my way up from abject poverty into the middle class. Twice. I'd go so far as to say, that there is no possible way that you dislike the thought of supporting deadbeats more than I do. And I do have dreams and plans of starting my own company and getting rich. Hell, at this rate, it's probably the only way I'll have a shot at retiring. I pledge however, that at no time will my salary be more than 20 times that of my lowest paid employee. Why? because it's the RIGHT thing to do. Like saying "please" and "thank you", respecting your elders and chewing with your mouth closed.

Assuming you have some of your money in the market, which would you rather invest in?
(all other factors being equal)
Company A, that pays its CEO a 75th percentile salary of $10 million a year (plus perks, bonuses, etc)
or
Company B, that pays its CEO a $1 million salary plus 5% of whatever he nets for the shareholders

I am in support of restoring checks and balances to the system and giving shareholders the proper tools and investment climate to grow their investment. And I want the crooked players out of the game. Right now the revolving door between the SEC and the firms it supposedly regulates, virtually assures that no real punishment will be levied against any of the firms/executives perpetuating these frauds.

You seem to think I'm proposing class warfare when the opposite is true. The class war has been going on since the late 70's and so far, we, the middle class, are losing. We want a truce, because we know that the ones who will lose the most is us. If you succeed in destroying the middle class where are you going to fall to if you hit hard times?

[modette99]

Middle Class - Maybe stop buying the latest IPhone the biggest TV, the games systems, crazy fast PC's. Stop paying monthly for luxury shit like Cable TV, Cell phone plans, XM radio, and a whole host of luxury things. Why are you, the middle class buying $30K+ vehicles??? Why are you trying to live as if you are RICH? It's not cool to own a $65K vehicle but only make $80K a year...there is nothing COOL about that.

But yet you want to bitch, how you can not afford the same things in life. Booo the fucking whoooo. If you have a brain, which it seems a lot just don't have no one forces you to buy all those things, no one forces to be middle class or even poor to 'keep up with the Jones's'.

Have a little self control, I know your going to have excuses like "I NEED that $50K" BMW. I NEED a PS3, I NEED 200+ channels of Cable TV, I need a 6K sq ft house I should never of bought. It's all I NEED I NEED in this would. It's like the person that claims they NEED a cell phone...NO you don't...and you for sure don't need a DATA plan, texting plan, and a smartphone either.

The wife and I felt like TV was a waste of $$$$ so we ditched it and keep Internet. We save $840 a year by not having TV service. heck we are thinking of ditching smartphones to go back to just normal old phones. We pay $120 a month for two phones with a 20% discount, $1,440 a year is kind of ridiculous if you ask me.

I could of bought a NEW Hemi Jeep Grand Cherokee and we could have paid the $700-$800 a month but WHY!!!! I'm happy with my used after sales tax $15,000 HEMI fully loaded GC. I let the wife buy a NEW Ford Edge AWD but deal was she has to keep it at least 10 years...even after A/Z Plan, Rebate, and Extended warranty it was $38K at 0% for 60 months...we were looking at Volvo for $48K but said WHY!!! In reality we plan to have the Edge for 15 years, paid off in 5 years, and pocked the $680 a month for 5-10 years....that be $40,800 we can walk in and drop cash down and own outright. No more leasing, no more financing....that is all stupid and is what POOR people do.

We pay more every month on our mortgage to pay it off ASAP. I remember my parents paying 2 to 3 times the mortgage payment each month to pay there house off *shrug* My father bought a new Wrangler in 1997 (still has it and its the vehicle he has been taking around the world since then)...he paid it off after one year. He has looked at Lotus's and BMW's and Porsche's...but he likes not having a car payment as he said that gives him $600 a month if not more in savings by not having a new car payment....of course people will claim "but after time you spend more then the vehicle is worth"....that is false logic. $600 x 12 = $7,200...you can do a lot of repairs before you ever get over that figure of a new vehicle. It seems people always have that false logic though...to most its somehow cheaper to buy a new vehicle ever 4 years....LOL

I remember when the wife and I were looking here at homes. We told the bank the amount in the letter we needed to be approved for. Lady says, "Well we can approve you for $500K" our response "that's nice but we don't want to spend $500K". I had ran the numbers and knew what we COULD afford and not be house poor, you think the banks would of did the same deal but oh no. Yeah, now we could probably be okay with a $350K-$400K house payment (paid things off like student loans since 2007) but then again WHY. Those that have seen my house its just the wife and I with 5 bedrooms, its already overboard for our needs. Even if we have one child its bigger then anything I grew up in. Heck we don't even have upstairs sofa or a TV on the main floor....LOL We don't FEEL the need to trick the house out inside with pointless nic-nacs everywhere.

You know what all this gives us, maxed out IRA's, nice money in savings and checking, the ability to take a vacation, the ability for my wife to just randomly take time unpaid off. She does bust her butt off though, and I guess we be over $168K mark if I worked...but its not NEEDED. Truth be told I'll be the house husband raising the kids, I'm okay with that.

If you the middle class want to SPEND SPEND SPEND to look like your rich knock yourself out...but don't whine to all of us that are not smart enough to control your spending. Don't whine that your house is getting foreclosed on when you wasted so much to KEEP up appearances.

Even the wealthy overspend, which I have always found to be amazing. Like Michael Jackson he was pretty much up shit creek before he died.

The middle class create the class war, there is no class war in reality. If your not happy making $30K a year, try and do better, work harder. If you hate your job, THEN QUIT. So who here is making only $30K a year but riding a new $10K motorcycle, and owns even a $10K vehicle???? I bet a few of you...the ones that like to bitch. Maybe sell the motorcycle (its an expensive hobby/sport), or ride a motorcycle you CAN afford. I always had a pet peeve on those that bitch about new tire cost...THEN SELL THE BIKE.

I need to go...got to finish up with trim around the windows on the house to get it ready for NEW windows (paid for by insurance and cash) *shrug* Nice to have cash......

[cptschlongenheimer]

Modette,
I'm not sure who your're aiming that at...
But, if it be me:

I've never bought a new car. I own all three of my hoopties outright. And except the bike, I've never paid more than $2000 for any vehicle.
The only vehicle I've ever financed was my bike and I did so with a signature loan, with a reasonable interest rate, and paid it off early.

I've never had cable/satellite TV, nor will I ever. And I know for a fact that anybody who does, is allowing themselves to be wallet raped.

I bought a modest 1600 sq. ft house that in total cost me less than twice my annual salary and I chose a location that keeps my commute at right around ten minutes each way.

I do have a smartphone but paid cash for the thing outright, so the two year total cost of ownership is half what others pay. Considering I've avoided having to even turn on my PC at home 98% of the time since, it's a worthwhile expense.

I cook 13 out of every 14 nights to provide my family with affordable healthy dinners.

I eat lunch at home out of the leftovers every day.

I do all of my own car/house/appliance/computer repairs.

In total, all of these practices have allowed me to achieve a middle class status. If I spent my money as you've assumed I do, I'd be bankrupt/drowning in debt.

[modette99]

I was speaking in General...No one pointed at here.

I was speaking what I see my neighbors do. You know buy the $300K+ house, have two NEW fancy vehicles (probably leases but they will never say they are). Have a 5th wheel, buy all the latest toys/electronics...but in reality they are POOR. They live paycheck to paycheck.

In general although sad its what people tend to do. Why do you think Dave Ramsey is on the air. He gets plenty of people calling in living that life style with nothing to show for.

Wife & I are not perfect after all we are Human.

One reason why I am doing the trim around the windows (too windy here in Monument today to be on a ladder) but I figure it saved me $1,200 (what I was willing to pay someone). Hard to get good help today...LOL So I started it myself one reason why the wife was okay with me heading out to Moab. I plan to install the new water heater myself too. Sometimes things are slower doing it yourself but I hate paying someone for something I can do and have the time for. For example the Jeep needed new front differential bushings and I was quoted $1,100...I got the dealer to give me two FREE and I paid $110 for the front (most expensive one)....so I saved $990.

Sounds like we are alike.....plan here is to have $2 million saved for retirement. While others struggle when they are older the wife & I will be laid back. I already know when that time comes we will sell the house, and buy something smaller & cheaper. Might as well get used to used vehicles or keeping new a long time...because in old age we won't have as much "fun" money.

[laspariahs]

Middle Class - Maybe stop buying the latest IPhone the biggest TV, the games systems, crazy fast PC's. Stop paying monthly for luxury shit like Cable TV, Cell phone plans, XM radio, and a whole host of luxury things. Why are you, the middle class buying $30K+ vehicles??? Why are you trying to live as if you are RICH? It's not cool to own a $65K vehicle but only make $80K a year...there is nothing COOL about that.

But yet you want to bitch, how you can not afford the same things in life. Booo the fucking whoooo. If you have a brain, which it seems a lot just don't have no one forces you to buy all those things, no one forces to be middle class or even poor to 'keep up with the Jones's'.

Have a little self control, I know your going to have excuses like "I NEED that $50K" BMW. I NEED a PS3, I NEED 200+ channels of Cable TV, I need a 6K sq ft house I should never of bought. It's all I NEED I NEED in this would. It's like the person that claims they NEED a cell phone...NO you don't...and you for sure don't need a DATA plan, texting plan, and a smartphone either.

The wife and I felt like TV was a waste of $$$$ so we ditched it and keep Internet. We save $840 a year by not having TV service. heck we are thinking of ditching smartphones to go back to just normal old phones. We pay $120 a month for two phones with a 20% discount, $1,440 a year is kind of ridiculous if you ask me.

I could of bought a NEW Hemi Jeep Grand Cherokee and we could have paid the $700-$800 a month but WHY!!!! I'm happy with my used after sales tax $15,000 HEMI fully loaded GC. I let the wife buy a NEW Ford Edge AWD but deal was she has to keep it at least 10 years...even after A/Z Plan, Rebate, and Extended warranty it was $38K at 0% for 60 months...we were looking at Volvo for $48K but said WHY!!! In reality we plan to have the Edge for 15 years, paid off in 5 years, and pocked the $680 a month for 5-10 years....that be $40,800 we can walk in and drop cash down and own outright. No more leasing, no more financing....that is all stupid and is what POOR people do.

We pay more every month on our mortgage to pay it off ASAP. I remember my parents paying 2 to 3 times the mortgage payment each month to pay there house off *shrug* My father bought a new Wrangler in 1997 (still has it and its the vehicle he has been taking around the world since then)...he paid it off after one year. He has looked at Lotus's and BMW's and Porsche's...but he likes not having a car payment as he said that gives him $600 a month if not more in savings by not having a new car payment....of course people will claim "but after time you spend more then the vehicle is worth"....that is false logic. $600 x 12 = $7,200...you can do a lot of repairs before you ever get over that figure of a new vehicle. It seems people always have that false logic though...to most its somehow cheaper to buy a new vehicle ever 4 years....LOL

I remember when the wife and I were looking here at homes. We told the bank the amount in the letter we needed to be approved for. Lady says, "Well we can approve you for $500K" our response "that's nice but we don't want to spend $500K". I had ran the numbers and knew what we COULD afford and not be house poor, you think the banks would of did the same deal but oh no. Yeah, now we could probably be okay with a $350K-$400K house payment (paid things off like student loans since 2007) but then again WHY. Those that have seen my house its just the wife and I with 5 bedrooms, its already overboard for our needs. Even if we have one child its bigger then anything I grew up in. Heck we don't even have upstairs sofa or a TV on the main floor....LOL We don't FEEL the need to trick the house out inside with pointless nic-nacs everywhere.

You know what all this gives us, maxed out IRA's, nice money in savings and checking, the ability to take a vacation, the ability for my wife to just randomly take time unpaid off. She does bust her butt off though, and I guess we be over $168K mark if I worked...but its not NEEDED. Truth be told I'll be the house husband raising the kids, I'm okay with that.

If you the middle class want to SPEND SPEND SPEND to look like your rich knock yourself out...but don't whine to all of us that are not smart enough to control your spending. Don't whine that your house is getting foreclosed on when you wasted so much to KEEP up appearances.

Even the wealthy overspend, which I have always found to be amazing. Like Michael Jackson he was pretty much up shit creek before he died.

The middle class create the class war, there is no class war in reality. If your not happy making $30K a year, try and do better, work harder. If you hate your job, THEN QUIT. So who here is making only $30K a year but riding a new $10K motorcycle, and owns even a $10K vehicle???? I bet a few of you...the ones that like to bitch. Maybe sell the motorcycle (its an expensive hobby/sport), or ride a motorcycle you CAN afford. I always had a pet peeve on those that bitch about new tire cost...THEN SELL THE BIKE.

I need to go...got to finish up with trim around the windows on the house to get it ready for NEW windows (paid for by insurance and cash) *shrug* Nice to have cash......

The problem with this is, our economy would crash if everyone lived within their limits, it depends on people buying more and more shit, it's a consumer economy. On the other hand, our economy is on the skids because banks gave out loans that they damn well know they shouldn't have. So where's the balance in our consumer economy? Capitalism is all fine and good, but it's not the end all be all, merely a bump in the road to something greater, just like all the society's behind us. Do we really think that this is utopia? That we have found the answer to everything? Perhaps we are that naive as a culture.

[modette99]

Oh and I know people that have...

Land Line
Cell Phones
Cable TV
Internet
Netflix
XM Radio

That is just some of the things people pay each month (the luxury) to have.

Growing up...main monthly bills

Mortgage
Car
Land Line

That was it. We are nickle & dime monthly in today's world. True my father made a LOT less...but they did not have nearly the luxury expenses. Also you bought a car you put down 20% to be financed. Typical car loan was 2-3 years. It is now 4-5 years. 5 is pretty common now.

[laspariahs]

Oh and I know people that have...

Land Line
Cell Phones
Cable TV
Internet
Netflix
XM Radio

That is just some of the things people pay each month (the luxury) to have.

Growing up...main monthly bills

Mortgage
Car
Land Line

That was it. We are nickle & dime monthly in today's world. True my father made a LOT less...but they did not have nearly the luxury expenses. Also you bought a car you put down 20% to be financed. Typical car loan was 2-3 years. It is now 4-5 years. 5 is pretty common now.

What about all the people that work for netflix, XM radio, cable TV, internet, landline and smartphone makers, what happens to them when people wise up.

I don't disagree with your premise but it's not fully thought out. Me personally I only have internet and phone.

[modette99]

The problem with this is, our economy would crash if everyone lived within their limits, it depends on people buying more and more shit, it's a consumer economy. On the other hand, our economy is on the skids because banks gave out loans that they damn well know they shouldn't have. So where's the balance in our consumer economy?

I don't care if it crashes, does not make me WANT to buy more if that is what your getting at.

As for the banks, I agree they are at fault although the consumer should have been smart enough to say wait your approving me for a $500K loan but there is no way besides being house poor to qualify. People need to own up that they should have thought things through. Just like the wife and I did.

Banks should have stayed with the 20% down rule. You want a $500K home that is fine, but you got the $100K to put down??? is what they should of been asking. I'll admit we only put 10% down, thus we had the 2 mortgage way of things to get out of PMI. It worked for us, when we refinanced to a lower rate we combined both loans into the one it should have been so no more PMI...heck we almost had that second mortgage to get out of the PMI paid off...from being smart and paying extra each month.

Same with vehicles, want a new one you should have to put 20% down like the old days. In reality you have no business driving a $30K vehicle if you can not put down a lousy $6K.

[modette99]

What about all the people that work for netflix, XM radio, cable TV, internet, landline and smartphone makers, what happens to them when people wise up.

I don't disagree with your premise but it's not fully thought out. Me personally I only have internet and phone.

I do not care about those people. My premise is well thought out. I will not feel guilty in not subscribing to more debt is better....I got to worry about me, not some Netflix employee.

Chances of people waking up, ZERO...so the few of us that do they won't even notice it. Thus those people will still be working.

[laspariahs]

I don't care if it crashes, does not make me WANT to buy more if that is what your getting at.

I'm no advocating people buy shit that they can't afford, I'm just saying that's what our entire economy is built on, buying more crap.

As for not caring, I do care, because I enjoy the life that society affords me, I really don't want to spend all my days farming potatoes in my personal garden, walking 2 hours each way for water, or anything like that. I'm perfectly content on paying others to do things for me so I can spend my days doing other things.

[laspariahs]

I do not care about those people. My premise is well thought out. I will not feel guilty in not subscribing to more debt is better....I got to worry about me, not some Netflix employee.

The thing is though you are connected to that netflix employee, who's going to pay for his unemployment, you, who's going to pay for his food stamps you, on and on.