MotoGP (Spoiler) Valencia

[FZjake719]

What a race indeed! Props to Spies, had me on the edge of my seat for the last 6-7 laps, for sure. Also very touched by the Super Sic tribute bit they had before the race. "moment of noise, rather than a moment of silence" is something I think I'll be putting in my will for when I kick the bucket.

EIther way, sad to see the end of the season, excited to see what the 1k's bring to the table next year. Overall though, very exciting and emotional race. CANT WAIT TILL NEXT SEASON!!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Excllent race, too bad the power of the honda was able to beat Spies across the line.

I'm anticipating the 1000's as well, BUT, the FIM is friggin' stupid for not allowing any more fuel than the 800's. This "green" movement in racing is totally retarded. And they should have banned TC and stability control for 2012. It will most likely NOT be like the old 1000cc class with the sliding etc.. Ah well....

[tecknojoe]

banned TC and stability control for 2012

Was this actually on the discussion table? I was under the assumption that it'll never go back, ever

[rybo]

I disagree Frank -(I know big surprise)

A big part of prototype racing is to develop the breed. Currently that development is happening at the electronics level. Yamaha made their engine more durable over the span of the 800cc era, but it never really made a whole lot more power, development of the recriprocating engine is near it's limit given the current technology.

The breed improves through prototype racing. Limiting the fuel isn't about the green movement, sure you can spin it that way, but really it's about limiting the power the bikes can make and make, keeping speeds slower. The move to the 1000cc powerplant is going to allow more power, but they are also going to be heavier bikes, meaning that mid corner speed will go down, which is the most dangerous time to be going really fast. So, while they might not be the wheel spinning sliding monsters of the 990 era, they should be a more "point and shoot" bike than the current crop is.

I like the idea of using a fuel limit, and maybe making that limit different for different configurations of motorcycle.

Prototype = 21 liters of fuel

Production Based = 24 liters of fuel

This allows a greater number of teams to participate and gives some level of equalizer to the teams that simply can't afford a $1M engine management package.

This year the lease price for a Ducati Satellite bike was 1/2 of that of the Honda. Next year with CRT in place a team should be able to run a whole season for less than the cost of leasing a Honda. The number of dollars required to be competitive right now is flat out astronomical. (Dirk can give a quantified statement if he so chooses) so what is an organizing body to do?

In my mind they have the equation close to right - let the CR Teams have some additional material resources to make up for the $$ they don't spend on uber electronics and factory engines.

Banning TC is the antithesis of the goals of prototype racing - improve the breed. That technology is already well established on street bikes and club racing bikes making them faster and better than they've ever been before, so the argument is that it's working.

Let the prototypes live!

s

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I disagree Frank -(I know big surprise)
Hah! No, we actually agree on maybe 1/2 of the issues motorcycle-related.

A big part of prototype racing is to develop the breed. Currently that development is happening at the electronics level. Yamaha made their engine more durable over the span of the 800cc era, but it never really made a whole lot more power, development of the recriprocating engine is near it's limit given the current technology.
Yes, it's to develop the breed. BUT, F1 banned all these electronic band-aids for good reason: it detracts from the sport by artificially adding speed. It ends up being a contest of "who has the best data-management and software engineers". In racing, yes, the Mechanical Engineers have a lot to do with how the bike rides.....but ONLY in a passive way. They design and build the best bike/tires/suspension components, but then it's 100% up to the rider to use the bike. In today's age, with the TC and stability-control systems, the equipment now takes an active role in saving the rider's ass. F1 banned the active suspension on the old Williams cars when Olde 'Nige was driving them, and a few years AGO banned the TC etc., and the racing is better because of it. Even Rossi wants to see it all banned. Develop it for streetbikes, awesome. For racebikes, nope.

The breed improves through prototype racing. Limiting the fuel isn't about the green movement, sure you can spin it that way, but really it's about limiting the power the bikes can make and make, keeping speeds slower. The move to the 1000cc powerplant is going to allow more power, but they are also going to be heavier bikes, meaning that mid corner speed will go down, which is the most dangerous time to be going really fast. So, while they might not be the wheel spinning sliding monsters of the 990 era, they should be a more "point and shoot" bike than the current crop is.
Actually, yes, it was a measure to appease the "greens". I have enough articles (written by Kevin Cameron) to that effect in my Motocourse annuals, and elsewhere. They first neutered the 2-strokes years ago by mandating unleadded fuel. Then the only reason Ducati won that year with Casey, is because they had a much better handle on the fuel restrictions, and developed a great way to almost eliminate fuel use on decell saving a bunch of fuel for later, and therefore they could run the engine much richer under full-throttle. This was evident in the way Casey and the Duc just flat ran away from everyone else in accelleration, and in the way some of the bikes actually ran low on gas in the races and went into "limp-home" low-power mode. Does THAT make for good racing? Hell no. They need to lift the restrictions and let them race. There will
ALWAYS be a maximum fuel tank limit in any form of racing, but at least make it reasonable. The teams will already do the best they can to conserve fuel, because it allows them to run LESS than the max, saving weight. But don't cut their nuts off by making them run on a thimble of fuel.

I like the idea of using a fuel limit, and maybe making that limit different for different configurations of motorcycle.

Prototype = 21 liters of fuel

Production Based = 24 liters of fuel

This allows a greater number of teams to participate and gives some level of equalizer to the teams that simply can't afford a $1M engine management package.
I actually DO like the idea of "proddy" engines in "proto" frames. There may be major legal issues with WSB though, as that infringes on their patents. I think the "proddys" should be given some extra fuel leeway, and some other consessions. I'd also like to see a separate championship points system for them as well as participating in the normal MotoGP one. I also think the Moto2 class should never have been turned into a honda-fest, but allowed ALL 600cc engines in, and maybe even the 675's and the 848's, with restrictions. It would give all the mfgr's a chance, and result in more interesting racing. There, I said it!

This year the lease price for a Ducati Satellite bike was 1/2 of that of the Honda. Next year with CRT in place a team should be able to run a whole season for less than the cost of leasing a Honda. The number of dollars required to be competitive right now is flat out astronomical. (Dirk can give a quantified statement if he so chooses) so what is an organizing body to do?
Racing IS expensive......and more so now that they're 4-strokes instead of 2-strokes, and even MORE so now that they must engineer the engines to last a lot longer. Durability costs $$. It's just the nature of the beast. If you want to play, you have to pay. They could always have chosen a cheaper series like WSB or any of the local SB series. This is the top level of racing, and it will always cost like it.

In my mind they have the equation close to right - let the CR Teams have some additional material resources to make up for the $$ they don't spend on uber electronics and factory engines.

Banning TC is the antithesis of the goals of prototype racing - improve the breed. That technology is already well established on street bikes and club racing bikes making them faster and better than they've ever been before, so the argument is that it's working (for street bikes).
Disagree. F1 is at a much higher technological level yet, and they rightfully banned these "active" band-aids. I've followed the series since about 83, and the racing was more entertaining in the golden era with Schwantz, Rainey, Lawson, et. al., going at it on raw, pur-sang racebikes.

Let the prototypes live!
Agreed, but without the band-aids.

s

F

[Sean]

I was bummed to see the crash in the opening lap, but man, the battle for 2/3/4 was great! What an interesting dynamic it made not having Jorge/Rossi/Bautista/Haydn playing around for 5th sport (or higher). Spies was hauling ass and dicing it up like a champ! It's too bad that Casey got such drive coming out of that last corner, otherwise Spies would have had it. And I can't believe that Casey lost his 10 sec lead. He must of had some serious "oh shit" moments off camera in order to slow his pace down.

[sprtbkbabe]

It's too bad that Casey got such drive coming out of that last corner, otherwise Spies would have had it. And I can't believe that Casey lost his 10 sec lead. He must of had some serious "oh shit" moments off camera in order to slow his pace down.

I was surprised there weren't more offs with the wet track. Stoner's biggest oh shit moment was seeing Spies come around. That was a bad move going wide just then. D'oh!

[Scer]

I am not so sure that spies didn't accidentally fudge up the last corner either. It looks like he loaded the front end coming out of the corner and heading to the straight. Either way, that was a nail biter.

Bite on bite'as

[UglyDogRacing]

I was surprised there weren't more offs with the wet track. Stoner's biggest oh shit moment was seeing Spies come around. That was a bad move going wide just then. D'oh!

Siobhan, did you watch the Eurosport coverage yet?

[sprtbkbabe]

Siobhan, did you watch the Eurosport coverage yet?

not yet, just got back from Moab. I'll download it pr'ly tonight