$85 CSC concealed carry class Dec 17th in Greenwood Villiage

[stitch]

Problem is that some NRA INS use thier credentials to teach their own class outside any guidelines that the NRA provides. Whats the problem with this? Well NRA Instructors are only suppose to teach NRA Classes using thier creadentials. Just stating fact.

NO...NRA instructors are only supposed to teach "NRA Classes" following NRA guidelines. I am free to teach anything else as long as I don't identify it as a NRA class. I am free to teach the CCW class and supported by the NRA when I do. I just can't say it is a NRA class, which it isn't.

However in order for the state to accept me teaching the CCW class I have to be CERTIFIED AS A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR BY one of the following;
(a) A COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, STATE OR FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY;
(b) THE PEACE OFFICER STANDARDS AND TRAINING BOARD CREATED IN SECTION 24-31-302, C.R.S.;
(c) A FEDERAL MILITARY AGENCY; OR
(d) A NATIONAL NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT CERTIFIES FIREARMS INSTRUCTORS, OPERATES NATIONAL FIREARMS COMPETITIONS, AND PROVIDES TRAINING, INCLUDING COURSES IN PERSONAL PROTECTION, IN SMALL ARMS SAFETY, USE, AND MARKSMANSHIP. (GEE...I wonder who they might be refering too here)

The NRA allows me to use my NRA instructors certificate to verify that I have met the requirements of being a certified NRA instructor to the state as long as I do not refer to any class that is not specificly a NRA class as a NRA class.

So if you really were a NRA instructor you would know that as it is very clear in the NRA's trainer's guide.

[wulf]

NO...NRA instructors are only supposed to teach "NRA Classes" following NRA guidelines. I am free to teach anything else as long as I don't identify it as a NRA class. I am free to teach the CCW class and supported by the NRA when I do. I just can't say it is a NRA class, which it isn't.

However in order for the state to accept me teaching the CCW class I have to be CERTIFIED AS A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR BY one of the following;
(a) A COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, STATE OR FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY;
(b) THE PEACE OFFICER STANDARDS AND TRAINING BOARD CREATED IN SECTION 24-31-302, C.R.S.;
(c) A FEDERAL MILITARY AGENCY; OR
(d) A NATIONAL NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT CERTIFIES FIREARMS INSTRUCTORS, OPERATES NATIONAL FIREARMS COMPETITIONS, AND PROVIDES TRAINING, INCLUDING COURSES IN PERSONAL PROTECTION, IN SMALL ARMS SAFETY, USE, AND MARKSMANSHIP. (GEE...I wonder who they might be refering too here)

The NRA allows me to use my NRA instructors certificate to verify that I have met the requirements of being a certified NRA instructor to the state as long as I do not refer to any class that is not specificly a NRA class as a NRA class.

So if you really were a NRA instructor you would know that as it is very clear in the NRA's trainer's guide.

No need for the sarcasm, I'm an instructor too, we don't teach NRA basic pistol cause it sucks.

Quite often people only want a cheap lecture only class.

[MAZIN]

Wow didn't mean to hurt your feelings so much...calm down little fella


Possesion of this card carries a responsibility for representing the whole shooting fraternity to those whom you deal as well as to the community as a whole. Much of what people think of guns, shooting and shooters dendends on you. Good Luck!

[stitch]

Wow didn't mean to hurt your feelings so much...calm down little fella


Possesion of this card carries a responsibility for representing the whole shooting fraternity to those whom you deal as well as to the community as a whole. Much of what people think of guns, shooting and shooters dendends on you. Good Luck!

Really? You come to a public online forum and accuse me of things that could cause me to lose my NRA instruction certificate and get me in trouble with the local authorities. You make claims that you are a NRA firearms instructor but make statements that are clearly uninformed and factually incorrect based on written policy from the NRA that is disseminated to EVERY NRA Instructor. All in an attempt to discredit someone you don't know, have never met, and seeming so you can just stir up shit to "Piss People off" and keep me from earning income to my business. You accuse me of not taking instruction seriously and providing the legally required instruction. And you want me to just blow it off as hurt feelings?

You want come here after all that and "council" me about the responsibility of being a NRA Firearms instructor? I take firearms instruction very seriously where clearly you don't. You're lucky I don't know your real name and instructor number. You can bet the first call I would make would be to the NRA and the second would be to the officers I know in the local police departments. I doubt you'll ever get to certify anyone again after that call. You have no business doing Firearms instruction. Your ethics are extremely questionable and your behavior here does no good to the reputation of other firearms instructors and the NRA.

[The Black Knight]

damn...

[MAZIN]

Um guess you don't read the back of your wallet credential card huh, thats what the qoute was from. I don't take this serous? Why would I comment on a sub par class covering law but not firearms. Have a nice rubber stamp class, hope you make your money and none of your students ever have to use thier CCW.

[Ezzzzy1]

Um guess you don't read the back of your wallet credential card huh, thats what the qoute was from. I don't take this serous? Why would I comment on a sub par class covering law but not firearms. Have a nice rubber stamp class, hope you make your money and none of your students ever have to use thier CCW.

Maz... You are a know it all TOOL. The only thing sub par on this thread is your comments.

[The Black Knight]

Maz... You are a know it all TOOL. The only thing sub par on this thread is your comments.

Actually Mazin is a cool guy. He's always had good input in firearms related threads. The back and forth between him and Stitch was just a couple guys ironing out some serious details. I think the thread derailed because of typical internet miscommunication. Mazin asked questions, Stitch feeling irritated fired back. At least that's how I saw it unfold. Was there a bit of prodding from Mazin?? maybe, but that was after Stitch got ticked off. It's the internet, everyone just relax.

[stitch]

Mazin asked questions, Stitch feeling irritated fired back.

Let's look at those "questions"

1. Mazin wrote "So call me a dick but 3.5 hrs?" = At this point I can't argue with Mazin's self assessment. Not really a question so I'll just give him this one. But lets read between the lines. What Mazin here is really doing is setting the stage to say I am not doing something correct and in his infinite wisdom he's is going to call me out on it.

2. Mazin wrote "Not a NRA class all basic pistol class' are 8 hrs." = Mazin here seems to imply based on his wealth of knowledge and showing his complete lack of reading comprehension that the CCW course I am offering is not a Basic NRA course. Look at that, he's right again! How about that. But if he was really a NRA instructor he might know that the only people besides Federal or LEO allowed to teach CCW classes are those certified by the NRA based on Colorado State Law. Nowhere in the title do I refer to this class as a NRA class, only that I am an NRA instructor.

But since we are on the topic of what the NRA requires lets see what else I wrote.

Mon Nov 7th, 2011, 06:26 PM

However the NRA does not allow me to teach CCW as part of the Basic Handgun class. I have to teach them seprate but both count for the permit.

This is long before Mazin every got into the thread. I think anyone with a kindergarten level comprehension of the English language would be able to understand that my CCW course is not a basic pistol course. But later, long before Mazin ever starts his BS, I state the following.

Tue Nov 8th, 2011, 11:11 AM

I am teaching a separate NRA basic handgun class on Dec 10th and 11th which does require live fire. It is an 8 hour class on basic handgun broken up over two days. You'll learn;
· Pistol knowlege and safe gun handling
· Ammunition Knowledge and Fundamentals of pistol shooting
· How to properly shoot (Stance, aiming, etc)
· Scoring targets and selecting and maintaining your pistol
There is a live fire component to this class. In order to pass the class you must fire a minimum of 20 shots. If need be I can provide a firearm.

This is a basic beginners class which is aimed at brand new shooters who might have never handled a gun before. Cost to CSC members is $100. Space is limited on this one as I have to order some training material for everyone who attends. It takes about a month for the material to arrive so I would need to know ASAP if you want to attend that class. I can take maybe 15 people for this class and I am at 11 right now. Saturday will be a 4 hour classroom session. Sunday will be another 4 hour session and then 2 hours on the range.

Hey look at that, Mazin and I agree on something. I clearly point out that I am teaching a NRA Basic pistol class and look at that, it's an 8 hour class (well 10 really with the all important and required live fire part). Again this is all long before Mazin starts shitting on his keyboard.

3. Mazin wrote "Also I would check the county that you live in because most want LIVE fire in the class." = Again Mazins ability to read at a 3rd grade level is in doubt. As he fails to not only read back in the thread where I discuss the difference between the two classes and then offer attendance at a actual NRA basic pistol class but I would also point out his inability to understand the difference between "Recommended" and "Required".

4. Mazin wrote "I would like to know if you are a LEO or have been, just wanting to know how you feel qualified to teach Your Own class and not stay with in the guidelines of the NRA Basic Pistol class outline." = Here again, Mazin showing his incredible ability to make leaps of logic, without any knowledge seems to imply that I am not following the guidelines of the NRA for a class that is not a NRA class. Again this isn't really a question but more of an accusation. Reading between the lines Mazin is questioning my ability to teach the class. He doesn't know me or my background or even what the full agenda is for the class. So again not really a question more of an accusation.


5. Mazin wrote "Also will you be giving out your certs or NRA certs, will your NRA Instructors Credentials be on the certs you hand out? Just a few questions...." = Look at that, an actual question. I would be impressed but I suspect his mother had to help him with this one. Again still this question is not really a question but more of an accusation. As all instructors are required to provide their credentials with a class completion certificate. Mazin, if he was in fact an actual instructor, would know that.


All of Mazin's accusations were intended to incite not to actually question. All of his posts were purely an attempt to discredit me. Not really sure what his motive was as i've never met him, never even heard of him before this thread. If he was really concerned he might PM me privately and say something like "Hey I am an NRA instructor as well, I have some concerns about what you posted here and would like to know more". Instead he did it publicly and with very flawed information that was easily available to him right here in this very thread. In calling me out publicly like he did he called into question the integrity of both my credentials and the NRAs ability to properly certify it's instructors. No real NRA instructor would ever bring that sort of public drama to another instructor in today's anti gun political environment.

So why am I so aggressive in my response with this? Firearms training isn't something to take lightly. I take it very seriously. I spend a lot of time and money to maintain my abilities and knowledge to ensure what I teach is proper and correct. I also invite local law enforcement to every class I teach to answer questions I might not be able to. I also generate a considerable portion of my income from this. To have someone publicly suggesting that I am not doing it properly can really affect my business and income. This takes food out of the mouths of my family. So in effect Mazin has just threatened my lively hood and my family's welfare. He better dam well be right when he does that. And clearly as we've seen he's talking out of his ass and just looking to troll as usual.

[The Black Knight]

Let's look at those "questions"

1. Mazin wrote "So call me a dick but 3.5 hrs?" = At this point I can't argue with Mazin's self assessment. Not really a question so I'll just give him this one. But lets read between the lines. What Mazin here is really doing is setting the stage to say I am not doing something correct and in his infinite wisdom he's is going to call me out on it.

2. Mazin wrote "Not a NRA class all basic pistol class' are 8 hrs." = Mazin here seems to imply based on his wealth of knowledge and showing his complete lack of reading comprehension that the CCW course I am offering is not a Basic NRA course. Look at that, he's right again! How about that. But if he was really a NRA instructor he might know that the only people besides Federal or LEO allowed to teach CCW classes are those certified by the NRA based on Colorado State Law. Nowhere in the title do I refer to this class as a NRA class, only that I am an NRA instructor.

But since we are on the topic of what the NRA requires lets see what else I wrote.

Mon Nov 7th, 2011, 06:26 PM

This is long before Mazin every got into the thread. I think anyone with a kindergarten level comprehension of the English language would be able to understand that my CCW course is not a basic pistol course. But later, long before Mazin ever starts his BS, I state the following.

Tue Nov 8th, 2011, 11:11 AM

Hey look at that, Mazin and I agree on something. I clearly point out that I am teaching a NRA Basic pistol class and look at that, it's an 8 hour class (well 10 really with the all important and required live fire part). Again this is all long before Mazin starts shitting on his keyboard.

3. Mazin wrote "Also I would check the county that you live in because most want LIVE fire in the class." = Again Mazins ability to read at a 3rd grade level is in doubt. As he fails to not only read back in the thread where I discuss the difference between the two classes and then offer attendance at a actual NRA basic pistol class but I would also point out his inability to understand the difference between "Recommended" and "Required".

4. Mazin wrote "I would like to know if you are a LEO or have been, just wanting to know how you feel qualified to teach Your Own class and not stay with in the guidelines of the NRA Basic Pistol class outline." = Here again, Mazin showing his incredible ability to make leaps of logic, without any knowledge seems to imply that I am not following the guidelines of the NRA for a class that is not a NRA class. Again this isn't really a question but more of an accusation. Reading between the lines Mazin is questioning my ability to teach the class. He doesn't know me or my background or even what the full agenda is for the class. So again not really a question more of an accusation.


5. Mazin wrote "Also will you be giving out your certs or NRA certs, will your NRA Instructors Credentials be on the certs you hand out? Just a few questions...." = Look at that, an actual question. I would be impressed but I suspect his mother had to help him with this one. Again still this question is not really a question but more of an accusation. As all instructors are required to provide their credentials with a class completion certificate. Mazin, if he was in fact an actual instructor, would know that.


All of Mazin's accusations were intended to incite not to actually question. All of his posts were purely an attempt to discredit me. Not really sure what his motive was as i've never met him, never even heard of him before this thread. If he was really concerned he might PM me privately and say something like "Hey I am an NRA instructor as well, I have some concerns about what you posted here and would like to know more". Instead he did it publicly and with very flawed information that was easily available to him right here in this very thread. In calling me out publicly like he did he called into question the integrity of both my credentials and the NRAs ability to properly certify it's instructors. No real NRA instructor would ever bring that sort of public drama to another instructor in today's anti gun political environment.

So why am I so aggressive in my response with this? Firearms training isn't something to take lightly. I take it very seriously. I spend a lot of time and money to maintain my abilities and knowledge to ensure what I teach is proper and correct. I also invite local law enforcement to every class I teach to answer questions I might not be able to. I also generate a considerable portion of my income from this. To have someone publicly suggesting that I am not doing it properly can really affect my business and income. This takes food out of the mouths of my family. So in effect Mazin has just threatened my lively hood and my family's welfare. He better dam well be right when he does that. And clearly as we've seen he's talking out of his ass and just looking to troll as usual.

And I understand everything you're saying. Either he didn't read your previous posts or something. I don't know, I can't answer for him. I got that you were teaching two different classes from your earlier posts.

Reason I, said it may be a miscommunication(and it's the internet so anything is possible, I'm not making excuses though) is that in the past Mazin has always contributed to firearm related threads and given good info. Now granted it's been a long time since I've seen him post in a firearm thread, so I don't know what happened. In the past he's always been credible in my opinion. Then again, I'm not an NRA instructor nor will I ever claim to be. I know my fair share of laws, info and etc, concerning CCW as I am CCW(and have been for a long time now) that I only worry about keeping up on stuff for myself really. But I've always found Mazin's info to be accurate and honest in the past.

So again, I don't know where this thread really derailed. I think it was back when you two got into it but that's what I saw/read. So by no means am I here to discredit you or your instructional skills. You do it as a profession and I wouldn't think of taking away from that. Just from what I know of Mazin in the past, he's a good guy and has never been one to troll. Least not that I've ever seen but I don't get into every thread on here either....

[grim]

This thread delivers.

[AOK303]

hmm Im in for the class

[stitch]

Apparently some of you didn't get the email with class info I sent out. If you are interested in the class and didn't get an email from me please PM me.

[grim]

Apparently some of you didn't get the email with class info I sent out. If you are interested in the class and didn't get an email from me please PM me.

I did get it. It if i bring in my dd214 and pay cash is that ok?

[stitch]

I did get it. It if i bring in my dd214 and pay cash is that ok?

Works for me!

[AOK303]

Do we need to reg on that site

[stitch]

Do we need to reg on that site

It's not required if you are paying by cash at the door. I just need to know if you are coming so I can print certificates. Otherwise if you want to pay in advance by credit card or check it's paypal.

[grim]

It's not required if you are paying by cash at the door. I just need to know if you are coming so I can print certificates. Otherwise if you want to pay in advance by credit card or check it's paypal.

I think i gave you all of my info if not let me know.

[stitch]

I think i gave you all of my info if not let me know.

You're all good Grim.

[rfranks303]

im still in and will bring cash to the door what else do I need to bring.

[AOK303]

Cash at the door i will bring

[Spooph]

Awww man, Grim is coming? I'm not so sure I want to go anymore... :P

[grim]

Awww man, Grim is coming? I'm not so sure I want to go anymore... :P

I promise i will have deodorant on guys.....Jeez layoff my stench for a minute will you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to mention i have seen you but have yet to actually meet you!

[mastap07]

this is the one i saw about a week ago Jack!
HEADS!!!!
http://youtu.be/aJvz7NqgRhc

i think ill wait my 30 seconds lol