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Thread: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

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    Cool MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS



    2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca

    Live and Independent: New Breed of Power Pony Meets the Last of the Old Guard

    From the March, 2012 issue of Motor Trend / By Michael Febbo / Photography by Brian Vance

    It was the 1960s. The Baby Boomers were in their 20s; we had the technology to put a man on the moon; and social change was the new social norm. Ford's idea guy, Lee Iacocca, decided it was time to go after the youth market with a small, performance-oriented fashion piece built from off-the-shelf parts that would turn heads on the streets and profits in showrooms. The plan was not only simple but brilliant. The 1964 Mustang was born to instant success, with dealers taking 22,000 orders on the first day. Ford hoped to sell 100,000 cars in the first year of production, but after extending the model year to meet orders, more than 600,000 1964-1965 Mustangs galloped off lots. Clearly, this Lee guy was on to something, and that something would later be dubbed the ponycar.
    Chevrolet was not about to let Ford run away with this new market. Within two years of the Mustang's launch, GM had its own ponycar headed to showrooms and eventually racetracks. The Camaro was bigger and heavier and had more powerful engine options than the lithe Ford. The trend of bigger and faster would continue until the gas crunch of the '70s, and, even then, the quest for power continued as expectations for comfort and convenience were rising.

    Jump forward to more recent events. The Mustang has remained in continuous production, while the Camaro took a little time off to regroup in the early part of this century. The return of GM's ponycar for 2010 saw the gap widen even more with Chevy's big engine coming in at 6.2 liters while the Mustang GT's displaced a smallish 4.6 liters. The Camaro was also bigger and heavier than the Mustang by a considerable margin. It was a little more comfortable, and hidden beneath the retro-nostalgic body panels was an independent rear suspension.

    For 2012, Chevy aims to redefine the ponycar completely in one electronically optimized fell swoop. The 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 takes the once-simple formula for all-American performance and reworks it into a recipe for a modern cyborg warhorse. Literally leaning on suspension technology originally developed for Cadillacs and Corvettes, the Camaro achieves better-than-Boss levels of handling with the highway ride quality of a CTS-V. The active exhaust system sounds nearly as quiet as a family sedan at part throttle, but opens up its big, angry pipes when you stand on it. Like the ZL1, the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca does allow for ride quality and handling adjustment, but the big difference is the Camaro is adjusted by a smarter-and-faster-than-you computer -- different performance modes are summoned with an index finger through a console-mounted button -- while the Mustang is dialed in using a screwdriver and your spare time.

    After getting a suggested setup from Ford for the Boss and instructions on what buttons to push on the Camaro, we took both cars to Inde Motorsports Ranch located in the Arizona Desert just a few short miles from absolutely nothing. We brought along professional hot-shoe Randy Pobst and enough data-acquisition equipment to choke a space shuttle. We not only wanted to take each car to its absolute limit on the track, but also record stats to enable maximum geeking out for weeks to come back at the office. And I got to drive.

    The knee-jerk reaction is to assume these cars will feel very different from the specs on paper. Sometimes gut reactions are correct, as they do feel night and day different on the racetrack. The Mustang is a very raw experience: loud engine and the steering is coarse and communicates every patch, bump, and crack in the road. Delivering near-Vulcan Mind Meld levels of communication with the driver, the Boss also requires anti-matter engineer levels of attention. Conversely, GM engineers have a more economical view of feedback. The Camaro doesn't give you the constant feedback of the Mustang, but talks to you when it counts. Think of the Camaro as being a good friend and the Mustang a girlfriend.

    The Camaro's electrically assisted steering rack uses a base level of force depending on the driving mode. The more aggressive modes get more assist and less damping effect. The assist has the ability to identify whether input forces have originated at the road or the steering wheel and can adjust appropriately. The Mustang also has variable assist, but approaches the technology in a more simplistic manner, offering three levels of assist: comfort, normal, and sport. The Boss's rack does back off assist at speed and ramp it up at parking-lot pace, but the assistance levels don't feel as though they are adjusted as often or offer as large a range as with the Camaro system. At the end of the day, the Mustang's steering feels closer to a traditional hydraulically assisted rack, while the Camaro feels closer to something you will find in the current crop of supercars and high-end GTs.

    The suspension follows the same theme. The ZL1 has magnetorheological damping, as on the CTS-V and higher-end Corvettes and Ferraris; however, this is next-generation. Thus, there are two coils within the ZL1's dampers, allowing for faster adjustment -- 1000 times per second, in fact -- and finer levels of tuning. By electrically varying the viscosity of the metallic particle-laced fluid within each damper, both compression and rebound rates can be adjusted on the fly.

    Track Showdown

    The Boss is hundreds of pounds lighter, but the ZL1 has 136 more ponies and that independent rear suspension.

    The Boss requires a trip to the pit lane to adjust its damping rates. The process isn't terribly involved, but the rears do require removing trim pieces for access. Ford recommended using a setting of 5 or full stiff, both front and rear. On the smooth sections of the track, the stiff damping worked fairly well for the Boss, delivering slight understeer in braking and neutral throttle. When picking up the throttle, the live-axle was surprisingly planted, but still allowed a bit of right-foot steering.

    Randy explained the real trick of the Boss is its ability to put down power. "Acceleration off a corner is so seamless, the car is very hooked up. The power is going right to the ground and turning into acceleration. In fact, it has so much traction, it's hard to get it sideways under power." With the suspension so stiff, a decent amount of the motion is transferred into the body. "I could feel a long frequency vibration or shudder over the washboards in the front stretch. It was very noticeable, but doesn't shake it loose." Randy didn't feel the same way about curbs, however. "I hit one and stayed off them after. It popped the car loose and made it jump sideways."

    The Camaro felt far more composed on the track than the Mustang. "I can put this thing right where I want it!" barked Randy as he slid the car around with one hand. Although heavier than the Mustang, the ZL1 still changes direction easily and is capable of pulling higher g-forces mid-corner. The constantly variable damping rates make the Camaro feel as though its tires sink into the track. Bumps that shook the Boss simply disappeared and never upset the ZL1. More important, more of the track became usable since curbing wouldn't throw the Camaro into a tailspin. The ZL1 doesn't transition like the Boss; it seems to have a much higher moment of inertia. Ham-footing the throttle in the Camaro, which provides nearly 140 horsepower more than the Mustang, will result in more sideways action but the horseplay is still very controllable. It is also worth noting that flooring the Camaro means dealing with almost 140 horsepower more than the Mustang.

    Braking was the biggest difference in the two cars' on-track behavior. While data shows that both cars can haul down from speed at similar rates, the Camaro inspired far more confidence. The Mustang, however, made us wonder if the brakes were working to their full potential. Randy explained, "I have to use a tremendous amount of pedal effort, and it just doesn't inspire confidence. There is a little bit of brake dive, but it just doesn't feel like it can generate a lot of friction on the rotors."

    We expected the biggest gap in the two cars' lap times to come from the power discrepancy. The Boss is making do with a mere 444 horsepower and 380 lb-ft from its naturally aspirated 5.0-liter V-8. The ZL1 humiliates the 302's spec sheet by cranking out 580 horsepower and a staggering 556 lb-ft of torque from all 6.2 liters of supercharged V-8. The Camaro has to move 7.0 lb/hp while the Mustang is dealing with 8.2. All these things should add up to the Camaro showing the Mustang its taillights with ease and great frequency. In quarter-mile testing, the Camaro ran through in 12.1 seconds at 117 mph, rather impressive, but the Mustang was only three-tenths of a second and 3 mph behind. Sure, the Camaro has 400 pounds on the Mustang, but we still expected more of a gap.

    On the road course, the Camaro was 2.4 seconds a lap quicker and almost 10 mph faster at the end of the back straight. Roughly 4 of those mph were courtesy of higher cornering speed carried out of the previous turn. Even without the big power difference on the straight, the Camaro would have been constantly making ground on the Mustang with mid-corner speed. The Camaro can simply generate more cornering force and corner faster, thanks in part to front tires that are as wide as the Mustang's rears and rear tires that are 20 millimeters wider still. Coupled with a stiffer body and more compliant suspension, the Camaro is a more capable car around the track.

    The last piece of the puzzle is driver confidence. The Camaro is easy to drive and constantly makes the driver feel like Superman. The Mustang is rewarding to drive, but it's constant work. After a few laps, a Mustang pilot is drenched with sweat and breathing hard. Even a pro driver like Randy appreciates the value of consistency. Lap data shows a tendency to brake later, and a few instances of "test-stabs" in braking zones. The same holds true to committing to high-speed sweepers. More speed can be carried in with the Camaro, with the most obvious instance in Turn 2 with a constant radius held at speed in the Camaro while the Mustang required a brush of the brakes. It was Turn 3 leading on to the back straight that would be the downfall of the Boss in a daylong race.

    The Camaro clearly came out on top of this fight. Although the Boss 302 is probably the best Mustang ever built, it just feels and performs like it's a generation behind. Randy summed it up: "The Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca was my favorite American musclecar -- until today." It isn't the lack of power; it isn't the lack of amenities. It's simply a lack of technology. The Camaro is the benchmark for a new class of vehicle. Call it the Power Pony, the Warhorse -- the name isn't important. What is important is ZL1's on-demand attitude. Supercar levels of performance, with the daily driving comfort of a GT, wrapped in a nostalgic package. I bet Lee saw this one coming, too.

    2013 Ford Shelby GT500
    To ruffle Chevy's feathers during the Camaro's coming-out party, Ford announced the updated 650-hp GT500 at the 2011 Los Angeles auto show. While it doesn't yet have the independent rear suspension rumored in the next-generation Mustang, it does use Bilstein electronically adjustable dampers. While clearly not as advanced as the MR system in Camaro, the dampers do represent a step forward for Ford.

    The new GT500 claims a 200+ mph top speed, thanks to what Ford is calling the most powerful V-8 in production. Handling will be aided by Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar generation 2 tires and a more aggressive torsen limited-slip differential. Our concern with the last GT500 was its ability to get power to the ground. If Ford can steal some magic from the Boss 302 and turn power into acceleration, this may make the next comparison much more interesting. When we finally get our hands on the 2013 GT500 and the ZL1 at the same time...well, we're going to need a bigger track.
    Stats are at the bottom of the linked page below:
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a/viewall.html
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
    ~Hunter S. Thompson



  2. #2
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Nice article, you'd think being founders of the muscle era they would have the Fords more advanced and all. I mean they stuck with the 5.0, 4.6 and 4.7 engines for a while... Hell even Jeep made the leap of faith with the SRT-8 at 6.1 which 430hp is underrated for such big ass engine... Not a domestic fan but GM hit it out of the ballpark with the Camaro in both style and improved technology and Ford also in style but underpowered still. At least they're headed in a good direction, wish I could afford a Camaro
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Nice article, you'd think being founders of the muscle era they would have the Fords more advanced and all. I mean they stuck with the 5.0, 4.6 and 4.7 engines for a while... Hell even Jeep made the leap of faith with the SRT-8 at 6.1 which 430hp is underrated for such big ass engine... Not a domestic fan but GM hit it out of the ballpark with the Camaro in both style and improved technology and Ford also in style but underpowered still. At least they're headed in a good direction, wish I could afford a Camaro
    If I could Mix N Match, I'd take the smaller Mustang body, stuff it with all the ZL-1 running gear (including the non-Chinese transmission, the MagnaRide dynamic suspension, the IRS and the Brembos) and then I'd have what I want.

    As it is, the Camaro is a bit porky and big for my tastes, but...if I had $58k to waste, I would probably get it over the Boss 302 LS...

    As to the old days--Ford has stuffed a 429 into their performance cars before, the 1969 Boss 429 was one of them. So, they haven't always been down on power to GM. And, once the 650HP Shelby comes out, then they'll have the advantage over the ZL-1--for even more money, and possibly with the same live rear axle...
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Most definitely, just glad the domestic market is catching up to technology and still targets the thrill seeking fun crowd, while meeting halfway with the families and conservative drivers. Toyota and most import brands forgot what that is... And whoever calls Scion a fun brand (yes even with that whack ass FT-86 they call a sports car), please go to the corner and think throughly about that.
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Most definitely, just glad the domestic market is catching up to technology and still targets the thrill seeking fun crowd, while meeting halfway with the families and conservative drivers. Toyota and most import brands forgot what that is... And whoever calls Scion a fun brand (yes even with that whack ass FT-86 they call a sports car), please go to the corner and think throughly about that.
    In the 90s the Imports kinda had it all--RX7, Supra, MR2, NSX, 3000GT-VR4, Integra Type R, Eclipse GSX, etc. Then they killed off every single one of those.

    Now, there's the STI (EVO just got killed), 370z and GTR...and not much else.

    The FT-86 could have been cool, but they nerfed it with a pathetic 200HP/150lb torque N/A engine for MPG.

    So, I'm very glad to see things like the SRT-8s, the 302s and the ZL-1s out there, at least someone's trying to make a fun/"affordable" car that's actually...fun.

    And, even if the $50-60k top-shelf models are out of reach, the bargain-basement V6 Mustang and Camaros aren't bad cars, and the V8 SS and GT are decently fun for tire-smoking hooliganry.
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    In the 90s the Imports kinda had it all--RX7, Supra, MR2, NSX, 3000GT-VR4, Integra Type R, Eclipse GSX, etc. Then they killed off every single one of those.

    Now, there's the STI (EVO just got killed), 370z and GTR...and not much else.

    The FT-86 could have been cool, but they nerfed it with a pathetic 200HP/150lb torque N/A engine for MPG.

    So, I'm very glad to see things like the SRT-8s, the 302s and the ZL-1s out there, at least someone's trying to make a fun/"affordable" car that's actually...fun.

    And, even if the $50-60k top-shelf models are out of reach, the bargain-basement V6 Mustang and Camaros aren't bad cars, and the V8 SS and GT are decently fun for tire-smoking hooliganry.
    Yea they lost ground definitely, the 300zx, 3000GT (or GTO) and Supra were the pioneers in that time but even to this day I love those rides and would kill for a Supra. I lost love for the EVO on the last generation, ugly, underpowered, heavy and just crap. EVO IX was the best IMO... STi's are cool but overrated as well. The FT-86 is an overpriced, out of the factory failure. Maybe it'll get aftermarket support like crazy being RWD based but close to $32k for a 200hp car? Forget it!... I'd rather drop another $6-7k and get a G37 with 330hp and 320 lb of torque or even a 370z... I mean hell even the Chevy cruize with a 1.6 turbo engine is fun but Toyota makes a sport line for the Prius? Seriously? lol
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    5.0 na vs 6.2 supercharged... um ok???

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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Yea they lost ground definitely, the 300zx, 3000GT (or GTO) and Supra were the pioneers in that time but even to this day I love those rides and would kill for a Supra. I lost love for the EVO on the last generation, ugly, underpowered, heavy and just crap. EVO IX was the best IMO... STi's are cool but overrated as well. The FT-86 is an overpriced, out of the factory failure. Maybe it'll get aftermarket support like crazy being RWD based but close to $32k for a 200hp car? Forget it!... I'd rather drop another $6-7k and get a G37 with 330hp and 320 lb of torque or even a 370z... I mean hell even the Chevy cruize with a 1.6 turbo engine is fun but Toyota makes a sport line for the Prius? Seriously? lol
    you can have a 2000 + hp suby but with any sort of non oem exhaust your car sounds like a wet fart

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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Yea they lost ground definitely, the 300zx, 3000GT (or GTO) and Supra were the pioneers in that time but even to this day I love those rides and would kill for a Supra. I lost love for the EVO on the last generation, ugly, underpowered, heavy and just crap. EVO IX was the best IMO... STi's are cool but overrated as well. The FT-86 is an overpriced, out of the factory failure. Maybe it'll get aftermarket support like crazy being RWD based but close to $32k for a 200hp car? Forget it!... I'd rather drop another $6-7k and get a G37 with 330hp and 320 lb of torque or even a 370z... I mean hell even the Chevy cruize with a 1.6 turbo engine is fun but Toyota makes a sport line for the Prius? Seriously? lol
    Odd point of trivia--the FT-86 will come on the same tires as the Prius. So...make of that what you will.

    I like the 370z, but didn't fall in love when I got to drive two of them. It was "Ok" without ever being "Great". Everything was just "not-quite" as good as it should have been--not as quick, not as powerful, not as sharp in handling, and the 3.7L motor is kinda...shit.

    A 300HP "STI" FT-86 would be interesting--but it'll never be built. That's not the point of that car, and it'd price itself out of the market. The BRZ already will cost as much or more than a WRX...
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by derekm View Post
    you can have a 2000 + hp suby but with any sort of non oem exhaust your car sounds like a wet fart
    You've got odd farts then.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG8k9MTLmGQ
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  11. #11
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Odd point of trivia--the FT-86 will come on the same tires as the Prius. So...make of that what you will.

    I like the 370z, but didn't fall in love when I got to drive two of them. It was "Ok" without ever being "Great". Everything was just "not-quite" as good as it should have been--not as quick, not as powerful, not as sharp in handling, and the 3.7L motor is kinda...shit.

    A 300HP "STI" FT-86 would be interesting--but it'll never be built. That's not the point of that car, and it'd price itself out of the market. The BRZ already will cost as much or more than a WRX...
    Yea the 370z definitely needs more edge for a sports coupe, have yet to drive one but I hear what you just said from quite a lot of people now. The 3.7 V6 which I assume is the same VQ motor on the G37, just kicks power so well in our Infiniti models. I do know Nissan sacrificed torque for HP in the 350z's the 2nd generation through which is why they may feel flimsy and such now too perhaps. I drive a 11' G37x base for my roadside car and its such a fun drive everytime, engine screams, torque you can feel plus a 7 spd transmission tiptronic style though I hate automatics but this one and the GT-R are the exception... As far as the FT-86 having Prius tire specs well just gay lol, all I can say. They should've implemented at least 250hp on that platform to justify the $30k+ price tag
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Way to rev a cold motor like a newb lol... Straight exhausts sound annoying lol. Nice STi though
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    Re: MT: 2012 ZL-1 vs Mustang Boss LS

    i do, and (imo) that sounds like ca-ca

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