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Thread: Brake Calipers

  1. #1
    Princess of Prius Sean's Avatar
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    Brake Calipers

    Another tech question for ya.

    On my right, front brake, there is some rubbing. I pulled off the tire and brake pads; it turns out that only one caliper/piston is in motion initially. The bottom caliper moves and the top stays still. When the bottom caliper extends to a certain point, the top caliper engages but at a slower rate. Eventually both calipers extend fully.

    I thought there might be air in the line, so I bled the brakes, but that didn't seem to fix it. i thought maybe a bad crossover brake line, but then wouldn't both of the calipers engage slowly? maybe just a bad caliper?

    If that's the problem, can you rebuild calipers or do you just buy a new one?

    t.i.a.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Zach929rr's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    I had the same problem on the 929rr. Took them down to Jim @ TFOG and he popped the bolts off for me (I didn't have an appropriately sized torx bit). He also had the special pliers which can grab the inside of the piston and apply pressure to the walls to pull it out. Don't want to mar the exterior piston walls.

    I took everything apart, set all the seals aside, cleaned everything up real nice with simple green, and put it back together with a conservative dosage of red high-temp lithium-based grease.

    I didn't get a rebuild kit after looking at the seals because they were all in excellent shape. For some reason, however, the piston was definitely binding like yours is. I'm assuming it was due to brake pad changes where the grime on the piston is pushed back into the caliper. I am now much more apt to do my best to clean the pistol wall off during brake changes.
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  3. #3
    Gold Member MetaLord 9's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    It sounds like you're talking about pistons, not the actual caliper. You should have one caliper for each disk (left & right) then each caliper can have one to multiple pistons (which would most likely be in a top/bottom arrangement).

    In the past, I've drained the brake line, pulled the entire caliper off, and dismantled the caliper, using compressed air to pop the pistons out instead of damaging them with tools. Inspect everything, clean where necessary, make sure your seals are all good and not torn or shreaddy (you'd probby see fluid leaking if they were), then lube up the pistons with a red lithium grease or grease of your choice, reassemble, bleed, rock 'n roll

    edit: ninjad' by Zach. Altho the compressed air thing works best to pop the pistons out. You can do all of what he said from home with a good compressor.
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  4. #4
    Princess of Prius Sean's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Nice! Thanks guys.

    Zach- Where did you get the rebuild kit? Just incase...

    Chris- Yeah, you're right, pistons not calipers. Sorry bout that. Any good choices for red lithium grease?

    Owe you guys a beer.

  5. #5
    Gold Member MetaLord 9's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    I just use what I picked up at Checkers. I use it on anything that's got metal to metal interaction, like axles. A tube of the stuff will last a lifetime...unless you're the typical CSC sexual deviant.
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  6. #6
    Gold Member Zach929rr's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Didn't order a rebuild after inspecting the seals. Should be easy to find, online even. On mine, there was one seal per piston and 2 additional seals per caliper where the two halves met if I remember correctly. Bleeding the empty brake lines was way harder than doing any of the caliper/piston work.

    I too got a O'rielly can of grease. Doesn't really matter as long as its high temp and lithium based. I too use it on most metal to metal contacts, specifically the axles/bearings/spacers anytime the wheels are off.
    Last edited by Zach929rr; Wed Mar 14th, 2012 at 02:03 PM.
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  7. #7
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by MetaLord 9 View Post
    It sounds like you're talking about pistons, not the actual caliper. You should have one caliper for each disk (left & right) then each caliper can have one to multiple pistons (which would most likely be in a top/bottom arrangement).

    In the past, I've drained the brake line, pulled the entire caliper off, and dismantled the caliper, using compressed air to pop the pistons out instead of damaging them with tools. Inspect everything, clean where necessary, make sure your seals are all good and not torn or shreaddy (you'd probby see fluid leaking if they were), then lube up the pistons with a red lithium grease or grease of your choice, reassemble, bleed, rock 'n roll

    edit: ninjad' by Zach. Altho the compressed air thing works best to pop the pistons out. You can do all of what he said from home with a good compressor.
    Do NOT use compressed air. It's dangerous (pistons can come flying out) and there is generally petroleum oil in the air, which can cause MAJOR problems with the seals. Take the caliper off the disk, take the pads out, and try pumping the brake, that should losen them up. You might have to get creative if one piston is really stuck, and clamp the good piston(s) in place so it forces the stuck one out first.

    Also, do not use anything but brake cleaner and bake fuild, and maybe a mild soap to clean brake parts. NO petroleum! dunno if lithium is petroleum-based, but I would NOT us it on anything brake related.
    Last edited by CYCLE_MONKEY; Wed Mar 14th, 2012 at 04:41 PM.
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    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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  8. #8

    Re: Brake Calipers

    dont chince on the seal kit, if you are going to tear them apart any way you might as well do the right thing
    all the seal kits i have ever recieved from Yamaha or Suzuki come with plenty of that lube for the seals,
    many of us prefer to just lube the seals and pistons with brake fluid
    the monkey has some good points in his post, especially on breaking the stuck piston loose- use the hydrolic system that your brakes are to be the power you need to free the pistons.
    i disagree on the compressed air thing, although seems a valid point about the oil in the compressed air- i just have never heard of it, with proper measures taken to keep the pistons from going into orbit or thru your forehead-compressed air is a great
    resource when working on brake calipers
    whatever you do, dont push your pistons out of the cylinders untill they meet each other in the middle- its very hard to move them again without damaging them- i wont tell you how i know
    remember, brake fluid is exellent paint remover

  9. #9
    Gold Member Zach929rr's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Well, Frank's comments made me look into this a bit more.

    My red high-temp lithium based (12-hydroxy) grease does indeed contain petroleum distillates.

    Looks like I'll be tearing them apart again over spring break and replacing the seals and using a silicone grease. Dammit.
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  10. #10
    Princess of Prius Sean's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    I have a Fuchs Silkolene Pro Rg2 Racing grease. It doesn't really say if it has petroleum distillates or not.

  11. #11
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by gsxridiot View Post
    dont chince on the seal kit, if you are going to tear them apart any way you might as well do the right thing
    all the seal kits i have ever recieved from Yamaha or Suzuki come with plenty of that lube for the seals,
    many of us prefer to just lube the seals and pistons with brake fluid
    the monkey has some good points in his post, especially on breaking the stuck piston loose- use the hydrolic system that your brakes are to be the power you need to free the pistons.
    i disagree on the compressed air thing, although seems a valid point about the oil in the compressed air- i just have never heard of it, with proper measures taken to keep the pistons from going into orbit or thru your forehead-compressed air is a great
    resource when working on brake calipers
    whatever you do, dont push your pistons out of the cylinders untill they meet each other in the middle- its very hard to move them again without damaging them- i wont tell you how i know
    remember, brake fluid is exellent paint remover
    Using compressed air to free anything stuck is very dangerous. Also, there is ALWAYS oil in the lines, which can ruin your seals. In addition, you can get far greater power hydraulically then you can pneumatically and it's safe. Why do you think tractors etc. use hydraulic systems?
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
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  12. #12
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach929rr View Post
    Well, Frank's comments made me look into this a bit more.

    My red high-temp lithium based (12-hydroxy) grease does indeed contain petroleum distillates.

    Looks like I'll be tearing them apart again over spring break and replacing the seals and using a silicone grease. Dammit.
    Ahhh, crap! Well, glad you found out now. What happens is it seems ok for a while, but the seals are deteriorating chemically, and they eventually break down and start leaking like a seive. And, the last thing you want leaking on your bike is brake fluid, not only because of loss of braking power, but that shit EATS paint and ABS fairing plastic.

    Use spray brake cleaner to clean ALL that grease off. I have a manual for my Gixxer, and I'll look it up, but I don't think you're su[pposed to use grease of any kind when you put the pistons back in. Maybe just lube the o-rings with a drop or 2 or brake fluid, but that's probably it. Hell, I wouldn't even use simple Green on anything brake related.

    Good luck!
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
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  13. #13
    Gold Member Zach929rr's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    I'm assuming I'll have to order new seals now. That's a $60 mistake you only make once. FML.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach929rr View Post
    I'm assuming I'll have to order new seals now. That's a $60 mistake you only make once. FML.
    If you completed the hydraulic circuit, you should replace every o-ring and seal from the master cylinder on down. If you haven't even put the line on the caliper, just the o-rings and seals in the calipers you used the grease on. I'd try and find some information from the manual online. I have a hard copy at home for my Gixxer, but if I remember during a rebuild they mention ONLY using clean brake fluid or maybe a mild soap and water. I'll try and remember tonight to look at it.

    Sorry to give you the bad news, but better now than later.
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

  15. #15
    Gold Member MetaLord 9's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    If you put the compressed air directly into the caliper it would work with fluid pressure, the same way the brake fluid would. He said the piston was slow, not stuck, so in that case the compressed air would work the piston out just as using brake fluid to pressure it out. If you're really worried about blowing a seal, just turn the compressor pressure down. Also compressed air is still a better option than marring and damaging the piston trying to pull the damned things out with illsuited tools
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  16. #16
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    The difference is air is compressible and can store lots of energy. Brake fluid isn't and doesn't.

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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Penadam View Post
    The difference is air is compressible and can store lots of energy. Brake fluid isn't and doesn't.
    Ding! We have the correct answer. Geez, do us Engineering types have to explain EVERYTHING to thes IT guys? Sheesh......

    And, again, there is petrolem-based oil in your compressor and air lines, and you want exactly ZERO of that shit getting in your brake system.
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

  18. #18
    Princess of Prius Sean's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Wow! Who knew this would be such a debate?



    I appreciate the attention to detail in this thread.

  19. #19
    Gold Member MetaLord 9's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Not IT, and I said turn down the pressure on the compressor... I still think if you take it easy on the pressure, you're not gonna damage seals.
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  20. #20
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by MetaLord 9 View Post
    Not IT, and I said turn down the pressure on the compressor... I still think if you take it easy on the pressure, you're not gonna damage seals.
    You're not getting it. You'll generate a max of about 175PSI via a compressor, you can generate 1,000's of PSI via hydraulics. You damage the seals with the oils in the compressed air, not the pressure delta (difference). And, compressed air is dangerous because it ascts like a compressed spring, and when the piston flies out it can kill you. Hydraulic fluids are safe that way because they store almost no energy, thus the piston will FALL out, hurting nobody, and won't contaminate the system with petroleum.
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

  21. #21
    Senior Member Wrider's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Really CM? Because every place I've ever worked has said to push out the pistons with compressed air. As for the pistons flying out and killing you... A rag in there works fantastically to keep it controlled.
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    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrider View Post
    Really CM? Because every place I've ever worked has said to push out the pistons with compressed air. As for the pistons flying out and killing you... A rag in there works fantastically to keep it controlled.
    Just because a shop chooses to do that doesn't mean it's right. Like these shops give a tin shit? They're interested in saving time, and saving time means more $$. Aside from safety issues, that does nothing to stop from getting the compressor oil in the system. I would never do it, but, do what you like. I'm pretty sure the manuals are pretty much in line with my advice.
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

  23. #23
    Gold Member MetaLord 9's Avatar
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Wait, wtf is a tin shit? Is that what the Tin Man was doing behind a bush on the yellow brick road?
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  24. #24
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    Re: Brake Calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by MetaLord 9 View Post
    Wait, wtf is a tin shit? Is that what the Tin Man was doing behind a bush on the yellow brick road?
    Why do you think the road was yellow?
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

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