Stock suspension vs aftermarket

[cosp600rr]

I know there are a few racers and fast guys on here so I was wondering what they stock suspension deosn't do that all the aftermarket stuff does. I understand about springs but what about the gold valves and shim stacks and shocks. It what point does all this make a difference in the laptimes at some of the tracks.

[rybo]

I've just replaced the suspension on my girlfriends Hawk GT with progressive springs and gold valves in the forks as well as an aftermarket rear shock and can only say that the difference in the bike is staggering.

To answer your question about what each of the bits does:

Gold Valves regulate the flow of oil in the fork better than a standard valve because they are adjustable. In the case of the hawk we would have to take the fork apart to get back to it, but it is possible to change how the oil flows through the valve, making it far more adjustable than the damping rod that was in there.

Shims can do a couple of different things. In the case of the hawk shims change the preload on the fork springs because there is no pre-load adjusment on that fork. Sometimes the rear shock is mounted in a way that it can be shimmed to change the rear ride height. Doing this will change the way the bike handles by changing the angle of the head tube to the ground. You can often accomplish this by lowering the forks in the triple tree.

Finally in the case of the hawk the rear shock was blown, so a new shock was necessary because all the good stuff had leaked out of the other one rendering it basically a pogo stick. A good aftermarket shock will have greater adjustablity in terms of number of adjustments and range of those adjustments over the stock unit. There are a few notable stock exceptions, the one on the rear of the new MV agusta f41000 and the back of the Mille factory R and Ducati R versions are about as good as money can buy.

Back to the Hawk, changing the suspension has made the bike far more confidence inspiring. It turns in better, it tracks in corner better and it handles bumps mid corner far better. On a track this would add up to a "comfort factor" making the bike easier to ride closer to it's limit. Will it be any faster on it's own? Probably not, but in my case I am rider limited, even on the hawk. So making it more confidence inspiring would lead me into being more sure of my capabilities on the track. That equals faster lap times.

Be well

S

[cosp600rr]

Ok take my bike for example. It is an 03 cbr 600 rr. I wieght in at about 155 without gear. I go to trackdays and have a good time. Of coarse the goal is to always go faster than I did last time I was there.. My question then is what would a penske or the new shim stack or the gold valves do that my shock or forks don't already do.

[Mista Black]

it'll let you actually feel the back end of the bike.

a couple months ago i replaced the stock shock (rear) on my bike with an Ohlins. yes they are expensive but they are well worth it.

prior to the swap i felt the front shock was fine and the rear sucked. now that i have a good (and properly set up) shock on the back, the front shock feels like shite!! replacing that one will be the next big buy for the bike.

additionally the adjustablity on the aftermarket stuff is usually far greater than the stock shock. the japanese sport bikes have more stock than i did (my rear had virtually none and the front has none) but i'm betting the ohlins has more than those too.

basically i am getting far more feedback from the back end of the bike now and have been able to increase speed due to that extra input.

[MattTLS]

Stock suspension is made to work for a wide variety of riders -- even though newer equipment is really pretty amazing as it is. What you'd be doing by modifying the suspenders is you'd be making them a custom fit for yourself -- set up for your weight, riding ability, and riding style. It could take a little trial-and-error to find what works best for you, but once you did that, you'd almost certainly be more confident that the bike is going to do just what you're expecting it to do in any given situation.

Matthew

[rybo]

I really suggest that you let Marcus, at Racer performace services, set up your bike for you the next time he's in town. Check his schedule by clicking his ad at the top of the page. Just the proper set up will make a huge difference. Then ask him what parts you should consider replacing or rebuilding. You will be amazed at how much better your bike will feel.

S

[BlueDevil]

2 huge factors of going fast are tires and keeping the tire on the ground as much as possible. Suspention plays as important role in going fast as the bike having an engine.... U can ride the hell out of a stock bike with some minor changes to the suspention, but U wont ever see what aftermarket can do until U change it. However, just by putting it on your bike doesnt mean anything. It can even be worse than stock. It has to be set up to yout body and ridign style. To go further even the track itself. U cant ride SCR with the same settings at CDR..... (Well U can but CDR will be pretty damn rough haha) Anyway, if you have the finances available go for it. But before U bothter to see hwo fas tU can go on it. Take it to a pro to give U some basic settings. U will most likely still have to fine tune but at least U start in a good place. I went from a street bike to a race prep bike R1 to R6. Full suspention done with MArcus and could ride circles around my R1 times on my 1st day out. (Keep in mind the other side is the tires. I also had race DOT's on as well.)

Hope that helps.

PS I believe the 600rr may already have a progressive spring in it.... Ive heard that track use is best to avoid and go for a constant rate... (But I ride a Yami so dont take my word for it)

[cosp600rr]

Thanks for the help. I'm not sure what route I am going to take yet as I may be able to get away with more since I am such a lightwieght. I wll probably concentrate on making myself faster with some lessons and such. At this point in the game I think that will help me the most. Thanks again for all the info.

[Mista Black]

it'd still be a good idea to have your suspension set up properly. even if you keep the stock stuff for now it will make a world of difference in the twisties. spending the money on some classes and things is a good idea but a properly set up bike will make that a lot more fun.

just make sure whoever does it (pro or friend) knows what they're doing before they get into it.

[cosp600rr]

It is already set up. I know what all the pieces and parts do. That wasn't the ? Iwas more interested in what people think the shortcommings of the stock stuff are.

[Mista Black]

ahh ok... have fun

[dwalker]

one of the guys I work with just replaced the rear shock on his RC51 with an Ohlins, and says the diference is amazing. Before the bike was oversprung and just too stiff. On corner exit the bike had a hop on throttle input that could be unnerving. Now on corner exit the bike just plants and goes. Overall he is extremely happy with the change.

As a rule i think Honda's are oversprung from the factory, and if you are a serious rider there are gains to be made having the forks and rear shock tuned to your preferences. That said, If I were you I would take a day at the track and make sweeps( changes throughout the range of adjustment) and use a notepad to document every single change you make thoughout the day, including pre-loads, tire pressures cold and hot, lap times, rider comments, etc. My procedure (not specifically with bikes) is to do a change, then out, hot lap, in, make a change, out, hot lap, in. If you are not consistent enough to feel comfortable making an evaluation in one lap you can extend that to two laps. Generally I feel that after two laps you will begin adjusting to the changes and whatever initial effect the change had is lost. Generically speaking I consider a serious test day about a 100 laps, although ona bike this might be too much, as rider fatigue will come into play.

[Buddau]

Fellow 600RR rider here!
TK Motorsports just replaced my forks inners with Ohlins stuff. The difference is night and day! The front does not dive as hard, giving me suspension while on the brakes and the front feels so much better going over bumps.
Cosp600rr, you said you weigh 155 pounds, me to. From what I found out, you are right in the weight range of the stock springs. The only thing is that the front springs are progressive, so switching to standard rate springs and some valving would help.
The rear shock is also set up for our weight, you are just missing the adjustability and the valving could be better.
The suspension is not cheap, but it makes the bike handle the bumps alot better.
Talk to Brian and Bart at TK Motorsports, they can help you decide.

[cosp600rr]

buddau

Have you had a chance to race on the new forks and how did your laptimes change. Were you able to go faster with the new found confidence in the front.

[Buddau]

With the front feeling better, I do have more confidence. Now I just have to fine tune the suspension.