Drones

[Ghost]

A. No need for the jabs, its called being civil.
I'm looking at it as to be cost effective for surveillance, a drone will need to sweep a large perimeter and a Quadcoptor will not achieve that because the of the size. Now if your saying that there will be mini drones flying around everywhere, are they being operated? Does every drone have an operator or are they on a gps surveillance loop. Well even the latter still needs an operator and both need technicians for maintenance. Beyond that, multi target facial recognition and target designation from that far of a distance? Now if you want to pick out a single target I get that, there's contracts out for that tech right now but it will be awhile. Next we should get precogs from minority report and make arrests before they happen.

My statement about background checks meant that you can reveal much more by doing a search on somebody(which many employers do today) than a drone. Yes they are voluntary but a credit check alone reveals much.

You're thinking too small and too focused. Costs in technology come down, technological improvements happen rapidly, processor and storage capacity grow exponentially.

For the moment, it may not be feasible to have drones everywhere, but there's no reason it cannot or will not be feasible in the near-term future.

5 years ago there were no Quadrocopters, 5 years from now I'm sure there will be sufficient technological development for mid-sized drones, tiny "hummingbird" drones, and massive fighter-replacement drones.

Facial recognition software, camera technology, all of that gets better yearly. Compare the first GoPro to the HERO 3D and consider what can be done in a very short amount of time.

And while drones need to report to operators, technology will allow a single operator to monitor multiple drones which are effectively autonomous or semi-autonomous until overridden by the operator.
So, costs will drop as you replace on-patrol officers and cars with fleets of drones that can summon response teams from a smaller overall pool of officers.

So, the issue isn't the technology, nor the cost of operators, those things can both be easily solved and both are ancillary to the core issue of Rights and Freedoms and the idea that we, as Americans, are entitled to those rights that protect our freedom from undue scrutiny.

You're saying "we can't do this right now" and I'm saying that you're missing the point.

As we take steps that erode our rights there's nothing to prevent the inevitable erosion of Privacy writ large as whatever technological limits there are now will soon be overcome.

[dirkterrell]

You're saying "we can't do this right now" and I'm saying that you're missing the point.

This.

Orwell only missed the timing by about 30 years.

[Fernman]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

You're thinking too small and too focused. Costs in technology come down, technological improvements happen rapidly, processor and storage capacity grow exponentially.

For the moment, it may not be feasible to have drones everywhere, but there's no reason it cannot or will not be feasible in the near-term future.

5 years ago there were no Quadrocopters, 5 years from now I'm sure there will be sufficient technological development for mid-sized drones, tiny "hummingbird" drones, and massive fighter-replacement drones.

Facial recognition software, camera technology, all of that gets better yearly. Compare the first GoPro to the HERO 3D and consider what can be done in a very short amount of time.

And while drones need to report to operators, technology will allow a single operator to monitor multiple drones which are effectively autonomous or semi-autonomous until overridden by the operator.
So, costs will drop as you replace on-patrol officers and cars with fleets of drones that can summon response teams from a smaller overall pool of officers.

So, the issue isn't the technology, nor the cost of operators, those things can both be easily solved and both are ancillary to the core issue of Rights and Freedoms and the idea that we, as Americans, are entitled to those rights that protect our freedom from undue scrutiny.

You're saying "we can't do this right now" and I'm saying that you're missing the point.

As we take steps that erode our rights there's nothing to prevent the inevitable erosion of Privacy writ large as whatever technological limits there are now will soon be overcome.

While there may be some semi-autonomous and perhaps even some fully-autonomous ones in the future, it's not like any gov't could have and spare the resources to watch every citizen all the time. I DO agree we need to draw a line in the sand as to what amount of spying is acceptable or not. As I said, in public places and in public view, you have ZERO expectation of privacy. If you have a privacy fence and a drone is flying overhead without a warrant, then that's an invasion of your privacy and is and SHOULD be forbidden by law.

[TinkerinWstuff]

While there may be some semi-autonomous and perhaps even some fully-autonomous ones in the future, it's not like any gov't could have and spare the resources to watch every citizen all the time. I DO agree we need to draw a line in the sand as to what amount of spying is acceptable or not. As I said, in public places and in public view, you have ZERO expectation of privacy. If you have a privacy fence and a drone is flying overhead without a warrant, then that's an invasion of your privacy and is and SHOULD be forbidden by law.

I can already go to Google maps and see the furniture in my back yard. It's only a matter of time before it's all live video.

[#1Townie]

You guys are missing the point. Its not a matter of privacy. Its a matter of a out of control government. What is not taking about is the other things to go with this. Ndaa for starters. This gives the government the right to lock you up if they think you are a terrorist. What makes you one? Do a quick search as to what can define you as a terrorist. five days of food. Lets say you go camping for two weeks and bring your guns. Done flys over and sees you, now the air force deems you to be up to something. Hope you enjoy that happy little trip because you are now a terrorist. No due process. For how long? Until the war on terror is over.

[stubbicatt]

It's illegal to use military assets to spy on americans on US soil, so is any of this usable in court?

Nah. No more court, Gitmo or other "indefinite detentions" under the stain of the so-called Patriot Act.

[tecknojoe]

everyone wants to complain about too much intelligence because they think it's big bad government turning into the devil's organization from some TV show where a guy runs around in a mask killing people with swords.

A lot of bad mother fuckers get caught before they do some serious shit. Even a white guy every once in a while. This country would be a fucked up place if we didn't have intelligence

[salsashark]

He's said too much already...

[cptschlongenheimer]

... This country is a fucked up place because we didn't have intelligence enough to restore our constitution to its rightful place as the supreme law of the land.

FTFY

[tecknojoe]

He's said too much already...

we never landed on the moon.

there's an alien at area 51

[dirkterrell]

You guys are missing the point. Its not a matter of privacy. Its a matter of a out of control government.

Bingo.

Security is a chimera flaunted at the masses by those who seek to destroy liberty without the guts to do it to our faces. And too many willingly give that liberty away freely because it is taken a little here and there, under the guise of being reasonable. We must be ever vigilant against the growth of government powers, as the Founders warned us repeatedly in their writings. None of these evils are new.

[SNAFU]

While there may be some semi-autonomous and perhaps even some fully-autonomous ones in the future, it's not like any gov't could have and spare the resources to watch every citizen all the time. I DO agree we need to draw a line in the sand as to what amount of spying is acceptable or not. As I said, in public places and in public view, you have ZERO expectation of privacy. If you have a privacy fence and a drone is flying overhead without a warrant, then that's an invasion of your privacy and is and SHOULD be forbidden by law.

I agree cycle, I think it comes down to people wanting more privacy. Even in a home, if your conversations can be heard by neighbors, you have given up your expectation of privacy. Look at Katz vs U.S. Going off of what you said, the expectation of privacy is not as high as many would think. Now some might say they have a problem with that and that is fine, but it personally doesn't bother me. Yes the government can be over zealous at times, but for me it's better safe than sorry. This is still a country were you can talk bad about the government and go about your day vs. a country were you are dragged into the street and executed in front of your family because you bad mouthed those in office and tossed on the roadside.

My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

[Ghost]

Security is a chimera flaunted at the masses by those who seek to destroy liberty without the guts to do it to our faces. And too many willingly give that liberty away freely because it is taken a little here and there, under the guise of being reasonable. We must be ever vigilant against the growth of government powers, as the Founders warned us repeatedly in their writings. None of these evils are new.

The evils aren't new, but the sheer magnitude of their reach, enhanced by technology, is beyond what any Founding Father could possibly have imagined.

Some might be trying to be vigilant, but the balance of power has shifted too far out of reach, and as more and more liberties and Rights are eroded, our ability to get them back diminishes...I think we're fucked, and it's never going to get better.

[Jmetz]

The evils aren't new, but the sheer magnitude of their reach, enhanced by technology, is beyond what any Founding Father could possibly have imagined.

Some might be trying to be vigilant, but the balance of power has shifted too far out of reach, and as more and more liberties and Rights are eroded, our ability to get them back diminishes...I think we're fucked, and it's never going to get better.

I'm pretty much in line with you and Dirk. Though, I personally believe that revolution is coming. It will either come from abuse of power by the government or because the gap between rich and poor becomes too great.

[#1Townie]

I agree cycle, I think it comes down to people wanting more privacy. Even in a home, if your conversations can be heard by neighbors, you have given up your expectation of privacy. Look at Katz vs U.S. Going off of what you said, the expectation of privacy is not as high as many would think. Now some might say they have a problem with that and that is fine, but it personally doesn't bother me. Yes the government can be over zealous at times, but for me it's better safe than sorry. This is still a country were you can talk bad about the government and go about your day vs. a country were you are dragged into the street and executed in front of your family because you bad mouthed those in office and tossed on the roadside.

My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

Lol use a jefferson quote but want to give the government all of your rights. O our freedom to privacy its fading fast. They can read our emails. Take our phones from us and go through it. No warrants needed. Just because they have the means of doing this doesn't mean they should. Look at our mail. Our mail is held as private. Why not our emails? Because of hackers? If someone wanted your mail all they had to do was go to your box and open it. Part office handles every piece of mail. Why not go through it and document who is doing what? Oh yeah its violating our rights. Funny how a piece of paper wrapped in paper that is in the hands of all those strangers is considered private but not anything else.

Just because people like you don't care doesn't mean the rest of us should loose something. Kind of like our rights to guns.

[rforsythe]

While there may be some semi-autonomous and perhaps even some fully-autonomous ones in the future, it's not like any gov't could have and spare the resources to watch every citizen all the time. I DO agree we need to draw a line in the sand as to what amount of spying is acceptable or not. As I said, in public places and in public view, you have ZERO expectation of privacy. If you have a privacy fence and a drone is flying overhead without a warrant, then that's an invasion of your privacy and is and SHOULD be forbidden by law.

Every citizen is being watched, at least electronically (think giant NSA data center out in Utah, among several other facilities). Drones are another matter, but it's not just the feds that are the issue. Local PD's and other agencies are snapping these things up in anticipation of the FAA approving their domestic use, which right now is not so easily done due to airspace rules. Note that I'm not talking about the little suitcase-sized things that get 100' off the ground or whatever, I'm talking about legitimate drones that travel like aircraft. The cost will come down and many other agencies and private groups will use them. Let's also not forget wholesale warrantless GPS tracking of citizens by the FBI and other shenanigans, which until very recently was happening thousands of times over. A supreme court judge IIRC ruled that it was illegal and needed to stop, though that doesn't mean it has.

I agree cycle, I think it comes down to people wanting more privacy. Even in a home, if your conversations can be heard by neighbors, you have given up your expectation of privacy. Look at Katz vs U.S. Going off of what you said, the expectation of privacy is not as high as many would think. Now some might say they have a problem with that and that is fine, but it personally doesn't bother me. Yes the government can be over zealous at times, but for me it's better safe than sorry. This is still a country were you can talk bad about the government and go about your day vs. a country were you are dragged into the street and executed in front of your family because you bad mouthed those in office and tossed on the roadside.

Better safe than sorry is an argument that governments have used before, usually (almost universally) to the eventual detriment of their citizenry. And you're right, they won't just cap you in your street -- that said, talking bad about the government can land you in an NDAA detention facility indefinitely, without any rights whatsoever. The DHS was recently discovered to be watching many sources for signs of "political discourse", far from their originally stated purpose of watching those places for early warnings of disease outbreak, disasters, etc. Political dissension is being monitored and recorded actively by the government at this point.

Lol use a jefferson quote but want to give the government all of your rights. O our freedom to privacy its fading fast. They can read our emails. Take our phones from us and go through it. No warrants needed. Just because they have the means of doing this doesn't mean they should. Look at our mail. Our mail is held as private. Why not our emails? Because of hackers? If someone wanted your mail all they had to do was go to your box and open it. Part office handles every piece of mail. Why not go through it and document who is doing what? Oh yeah its violating our rights. Funny how a piece of paper wrapped in paper that is in the hands of all those strangers is considered private but not anything else.

Just because people like you don't care doesn't mean the rest of us should loose something. Kind of like our rights to guns.

Word. Your freedom to privacy has all but ended, most people just don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes (myself included, it's likely far worse than I know and I pay attention to this stuff).

[Ghosty]

...that said, talking bad about the government can land you in an NDAA detention facility indefinitely, without any rights whatsoever. The DHS was recently discovered to be watching many sources for signs of "political discourse", far from their originally stated purpose...

Any links to legit articles/info on this?

[Zach929rr]

ITT drone operators try to give shit reasons why use of government money isn't a bad thing because "lol privacy"

[rforsythe]

Any links to legit articles/info on this?

Yeah, give me a bit. Some of the info was redacted, but was obtained under FOIA request including the full list of words they monitor for.

[Ghost]

Just because people like you don't care doesn't mean the rest of us should loose something. Kind of like our rights to guns.

Every citizen is being watched, at least electronically (think giant NSA data center out in Utah, among several other facilities).

Political dissension is being monitored and recorded actively by the government at this point.

Word. Your freedom to privacy has all but ended, most people just don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes (myself included, it's likely far worse than I know and I pay attention to this stuff).

These^ are the reasons that this:

I personally believe that revolution is coming. It will either come from abuse of power by the government or because the gap between rich and poor becomes too great.

Will never happen.

1. Too many people are either apathetic or have fully bought into the idea that our "protection" is worth more than our Freedom and our Rights to ever "stand up" for anything remotely resembling a political sea change let alone anything more.

2. In order to effect a significant change in public policy, the public would not only have to be motivated to want to change, they'd have to actually have the political power to do so--and in a world of PACs, Super PACs and wholesale corporate influence, the public has no power to affect policy or the political structure in any meaningful way.

3. If you mean a literal revolution, then good luck with that. No one will give up what they have (as little as they have now, or the less they'll have later) to join a revolution, again, see above for the apathy and/or powerlessness that will cull any "ambition" to go throw rocks at tanks.

The idea that you could have an army of the poor "rise up" and actually do anything other than die in the streets is out of touch with the reality of the imbalance of power. Your theoretical "revolution" wouldn't be the Revolutionary War, where the British got sick of trying to fight a long-distance war against insurgents with near-equivalent firepower.

Instead, with the constant surveillance, and with the might of the military, the near-military police units, and para-military contractors, any "revolution" would end before anyone could overthrow anything.

This isn't some 3rd-world country, this is a country backed by the strongest military-industrial-congressional complex the world has ever seen, supported by the best (most intrusive) intelligence gathering resources available.

Any hint of Revolution and the "leaders" would be in GitMo before you could blink (since they'd be Domestic Terrorists) and if there was any demonstration of force, it'd be crushed by the riot police, and if that wasn't sufficient, then the military would be more than happy to oblige.

...As Ralph said, we don't even know the full extent of just how fucked we are, but don't expect that we'll ever have more Rights or more Freedom than we do now. 1984 may be 30yrs late, but it's coming and nothing will change or stop it.

[#1Townie]

see you seem to think that all military WILL follow every order. i dont think that will happen. our first civil war was not the simple man facing his government it was whole states that took a step back and said screw this. i see this happening.

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=1399

its not going to be about that one man. states are tired of the feds just like the rest of us. if things dont change the country WILL fall apart.

[Ghost]

see you seem to think that all military WILL follow every order.

The majority will follow every/any order, the few who don't will be imprisoned or executed as traitors in a time of war.

its not going to be about that one man. states are tired of the feds just like the rest of us. if things dont change the country WILL fall apart.

The more the country falls apart, the more justified the government (Fed, State, Local) will be to enact "emergency" measures-which will further tighten the restrictions on Freedom and Rights.

Essentially, it's a no-lose situation. Either you (collectively) shut up and take it, or you try to oppose the power grab and become a shining example of why there need to be stricter measures in place...

The script's already been written, the actors are all on stage, and the play will run to its inevitable conclusion...

[Ghosty]

Just to add fuel to the fire, please enjoy this CNN article about Google censorship requests from even Western governments, incl. the U.S.:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/18/tech/w...html?hpt=hp_t1